Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Megadeath]

-Snip-


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When arguing is too hard and you don't have a leg to stand on, I guess you can always plug your ears and scream into the void. I thought it was only "leftards" and "neocucks" who needed safe space hug boxes.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Hey @Chiron, I'm still waiting on that explanation of how Kyiv's terrain means any attack on it must be a "double feint", along with what a a double feint is, which Russian generals have been reported dead and then showed up alive, evidence of Russia having thousands of inflatable trucks that the set up along 40 kilometers of highway, etc.

 

[Zachowon]

What a cunning ploy on the part of the Ukrainians to do this to the Russian invaders to such great and evident success as proven by the facts on the ground.

Bluntly, Russia 2022 is not capable of carrying out the doctrine of USSR 1982.

I'm offended he thinks I never read the USSR doctrine.
Literally had to as part of my job

 

[GoldRanger]

Shills may wish to pretend these atrocities aren't happening, and time will tell how they react when it becomes no longer possible to do so.

Don't count on it. Holocaust denial is still a thing even today.

 

[Agent23]

Hey @Chiron, I'm still waiting on that explanation of how Kyiv's terrain means any attack on it must be a "double feint", along with what a a double feint is, which Russian generals have been reported dead and then showed up alive, evidence of Russia having thousands of inflatable trucks that the set up along 40 kilometers of highway, etc.

I would assume that the huge ass, deep Dnieper river flowing through the city and forming islands and making long bridges required to cross between parts of the city make storming the place harder.
Lots of narrow chokepoints, and probably bog around the city, too, so harder to encircle and attack easily.

No wonder the Rus Vikings decided to start Kievan Rus there, btw.

Place looks pretty nice, I just might go in and buy some waterfront property there, assuming any is left standing after the war.

 

[Bacle]

So basically digging up months-old posts and reeing like a reetard, got it.
Again, no value produced by your waste of bandwidth, electricity and storage space.
Go whank off to MSM Zelenski fanfiction.


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Why am I not surprised that you have just decided to Ignore anyone who materially challenges your delusions, shilling, and cope?

You accuse us of ree-ing and such, yet when someone like @planefag comes along and decided to counter your ree-ing with bantz, and provide detailed analysis of the conflict, you put him on Ignore.

And when people call out your hilariously stupid predictions, you claim "well I'm not an expert, this is what Russian polling or the Russian MoD claim." Because you know you've been caught in your own web of stupidity.

This, after you ree'd your head off in the politics thread with regard to potash supplies (because you didn't realize the US gets our potash from our own supplies and Canada), then claimed your not an agri expert, and said that the fact your nation isn't getting Russian tourist money or agri supplies is what is causing you and your countrymen grief, because your nation wanted to keep sucking the Bear's teat long after most sane European nations had done everything they could to remove or reduce reliance on Russia.

So cope and seethe Vatnik, because that is all you can do.

 

[Agent23]

Why am I not surprised that you have just decided to Ignore anyone who materially challenges your delusions, shilling, and cope?

You accuse us of ree-ing and such, yet when someone like @planefag comes along and decided to counter your ree-ing with bantz, and provide detailed analysis of the conflict, you put him on Ignore.

And when people call out your hilariously stupid predictions, you claim "well I'm not an expert, this is what Russian polling or the Russian MoD claim." Because you know you've been caught in your own web of stupidity.

This, after you ree'd your head off in the politics thread with regard to potash supplies (because you didn't realize the US gets our potash from our own supplies and Canada), then claimed your not an agri expert, and said that the fact your nation isn't getting Russian tourist money of agri supplies is what is causing you and your countrymen grief, because your nation wanted to keep sucking the Bear's teat long after most sane European nations had done everything they could to remove or reduce reliance on Russia.

So cope and seethe Vatnik, because that is all you can do.

Considering you are chummy with Zach and Walrus.X it is no surprise that you are on the same intellectual and manerism level as they are.
Also, I really don't give two shits about TUMBLR or those that use it.
Sayonara!

 

[Battlegrinder]

I would assume that the huge ass, deep Dnieper river flowing through the city and forming islands and making long bridges required to cross between parts of the city make storming the place harder.
Lots of narrow chokepoints, and probably bog around the city, too, so harder to encircle and attack easily.

If true, then that might explain why taking the city would be hard, not why any particular attack on it must be a "double feint".

 

[Bacle]

Considering you are chummy with Zach and Walrus.X it is no surprise that you are on the same intellectual and manerism level as they are.
Sayonara!

Let me guess, you just put me on Ignore as well, because your little pee-brain cannot handle being challenged.

Also, it's less me being 'chummy' with them, and more me being willing to admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong about Russia not invading, and I have no interest in holding on to my previous position out of pride or ego, unlike you and your unwillingness to admit when you are wrong.

You'll probably have everyone but Chiron on Ignore before too long, I expect, so have fun in your self-made echochamber.

 

[Agent23]

If true, then that might explain why taking the city would be hard, not why any particular attack on it must be a "double feint".

Game it out in your head
You hear that your enemy is coming in to take objective A with what looks like a massive force, they already took some stuff on the far side of objective A.
Objective A is a tough target that will require hundreds of thousands of people to take.
So you'd assume that they are committing much more troops to objective A and you decide to defend, for which you will need an equal size force.
Meanwhile, they use their actual forces to hit other places you did not reinforce, like the land bridge in the east.
That attack, btw, probably made everyone assume that Russia wanted to create a huge ass cauldron out of all of the Ukraine.

Seriously, I should have looked at Kiev and at what the geography was, however my preconceptions of the place being some third rate shithole that spawned a bunch of thieving, interfering upstarts and Byzantine hirelings prevented me from thinking clearly.
Mia Culpa.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Let me guess, you just put me on Ignore as well, because your little pee-brain cannot handle being challenged.

Also, it's less me being 'chummy' with them, and more me being willing to admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong about Russia not invading, and I have no interest in holding on to my previous position out of pride or ego, unlike you and your unwillingness to admit when you are wrong.

You'll probably have everyone but Chiron on Ignore before too long, I expect, so have fun in your self-made echochamber.

I'm kind of feeling offended that I didn't make the ignore list. What's the deal, did I say something positive about Putin once so they think I'm amenable to changing sides? Have I not made enough jokes about how the Russians drowned a bunch of their VDV guys in the ocean that one time, or been too openly skeptical that the Ghost is real (which actually he might be, appearantly that Ukrainian pilot interviewed in the video I posted yesterday says there's a MIG 29 ace in his sqaudron). What's the deal?

You hear that your enemy is coming in to take objective A with what looks like a massive force, they already took some stuff on the far side of objective A.
Objective A is a tough target that will require hundreds of thousands of people to take.
So you'd assume that they are committing much more troops to objective A and you decide to defend, for which you will need an equal size force.
Meanwhile, they use their actual forces to hit other places you did not reinforce, like the land bridge in the east.

That only works if you're only intel is "I heard from someone that the Russians did a thing", if you have, say, intel support from the west and they're giving you satellite images, communications intercepts, plus captured documents or intel from prisoners that your forces have taken, it would never work.

Also, it only works if this object requires hundreds of thousands of men, which I don't know that it does. I have no idea what's needed to force a river crossing under a situation like this, and I don't think you do either.

 

[strunkenwhite]

You know, maybe Russia will succeed in its denazification of Ukraine after all: Ukrainians who want to look up to people who really stuck it to the Russians will hardly have to reach for Nazis when they did it themselves!

 

[Bacle]

I'm kind of feeling offended that I didn't make the ignore list. What's the deal, did I say something positive about Putin once so they think I'm amenable to changing sides? Have I not made enough jokes about how the Russians drowned a bunch of their VDV guys in the ocean that one time, or been too openly skeptical that the Ghost is real (which actually he might be, appearantly that Ukrainian pilot interviewed in the video I posted yesterday says there's a MIG 29 ace in his sqaudron). What's the deal?

You are Staff, just like Marduk; he literally cannot put you on Ignore.

Which is going to be fun going forward, because he will never be able to make the echochamber he wants and will just end up a metaphorical pinata who doesn't even know where the hits are coming from.

 

[Agent23]

Also, it only works if this object requires hundreds of thousands of men, which I don't know that it does. I have no idea what's needed to force a river crossing under a situation like this, and I don't think you do either.

That would be multiple river crossings, note the islands in the middle, and I doubt that you can build a pontoon bridge over the Dnieper, it is too wide.

Also, Kiev has a population of about 3 million.

Taking, pacifying and holding something that large in terms of population would probably require at least 1 active duty soldier for every 10 civilians IMHO.

So, yeah, the assumption probably was, fuck, they must be coming here with at least half a million people.

Something the Russians reinforced with those 40km long convoys and rubber trucks and tanks and missile systems.

 

[bintananth]

If true, then that might explain why taking the city would be hard, not why any particular attack on it must be a "double feint".

In terms of area the Kiev metro area is a little less than half the size of Albania ... and smaller than the metro area I live in.

I'm kind of feeling offended that I didn't make the ignore list.

Mods and other staff can not be ignored. That might be why.

 

[Agent23]

Mods and other staff can not be ignored. That might be why.

Nah, he is just far more sane and less emotional/asshole where this situation is concerned.

But yeah, the ability to ignore mods when they are not posting in Mod capacity will be nice, that way my waifu Marduk will get far less beatings.

 

[Marduk]

Nah, he is just far more sane and less emotional/asshole where this situation is concerned.

But yeah, the ability to ignore mods when they are not posting in Mod capacity will be nice, that way my waifu Marduk will get far less beatings.

The only thing you are beating here is the table, like Khrushchev, because all you have is shitty quips and dodging matter of fact discussion.

 

[Battlegrinder]

You are Staff, just like Marduk; he literally cannot put you on Ignore.

Huh. Didn't know that, though in hindsight it makes sense.

That would be multiple river crossings, note the islands in the middle, and I doubt that you can build a pontoon bridge over the Dnieper, it is too wide.

Ok, and? You still have no idea how difficult it is to do that, or how easy it might be.

Also, Kiev has a population of about 3 million.

Taking, pacifying and holding something that large in terms of population would probably require at least 1 active duty soldier for every 10 civilians IMHO.

As I noted the last time someone raised that point, the Russians are fine trying to take Kharkiv, where thier troops will be outnumbered 30 to 1 by locals. There's no evidence that thry have some rule where every city muse been taken in a way that maintains some particular troop ratio.

So, yeah, the assumption probably was, fuck, they must be coming here with at least half a million people.

Russia's total invasion force is about 190,000 men at most, there is no way the Ukrainians thought they were sending twice that number at Kyiv alone.

You keep acting like this is the 18th century and people are basing thier decisions based only on what they can gather from rumors and guesswork, which isn't the case. The Ukrainians have intel support from the west, they have satellites imagery, radio intercepts, spy drones, and a host of other information, not one bit of which suggested the numbers you're tossing out.

Furthermore, your argument here doesn't gel with Chiron's original point, where he claimed that because of the number of troops he knew all along it was a "double feint", and it seems very unlikely that a random dude on the internet has better intel than the Ukrainian military itself.

 

[Megadeath]

-Snip-
So, yeah, the assumption probably was, fuck, they must be coming here with at least half a million people.

Something the Russians reinforced with those 40km long convoys and rubber trucks and tanks and missile systems.

Jeez, I know he can't hear this, so hopefully it's not considered incivility to really share my mind? This man-child is a fucking moron. He repeats lies, he changes positions more often than a whore going for the kama sutra bingo, he pops off insults, slurs and strawmen like crazy, if you disagree you're "reeing"... It's fucking painful.

I mean "the assumption probably was, fuck, they must be coming here with at least half a million people." 🤷 That's painfully, painfully stupid on so many levels. I'd argue it properly, but if he's just going to plug his ears I guess I'll leave it in the hands of people he can't ignore.

 

[Agent23]

Russia's total invasion force is about 190,000 men at most, there is no way the Ukrainians thought they were sending twice that number at Kyiv alone.

You keep acting like this is the 18th century and people are basing thier decisions based only on what they can gather from rumors and guesswork, which isn't the case. The Ukrainians have intel support from the west, they have satellites imagery, radio intercepts, spy drones, and a host of other information, not one bit of which suggested the numbers you're tossing out.

Furthermore, your argument here doesn't gel with Chiron's original point, where he claimed that because of the number of troops he knew all along it was a "double feint", and it seems very unlikely that a random dude on the internet has better intel than the Ukrainian military itself.

Or the Russians managed to mislead the Ukrainians into thinking that they had the manpower to take Kiev.

Alternately, if you look at the rail and and river map you will notice that Kiev is an important choke point, then using that choke point as a staging area for more reinforcements:

If a deblocking or reinforcement force tries to go through those Russian troops could have hit it or the bridges with artillery and missiles, and taken parts of that force as well as damaged the logistics infrastructure.

Frankly, we are going off of guesswork here, but if Mr. shoeshiner helmet is anything to go by, western intelligence sucks.

Also remember that since 2014 the Ukrainians probably purged a lot of their intelligence apparatus and military for political reasons.