Ukraine and Wagner Team Up in the Murder of Yevgeny Nuzhin
Russian liberals change their recommendation to Russian troops from surrender to desertion
antiempire.substack.com
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
- Start date
antiempire.substack.com
Not possible,Russia do not longer exist.And postsoviets are not worst enemy then their german allies.
Yep... as I've said (maybe not on this forum, but certainly elsewhere) there are good reasons why the 'humiliation of POW's' is against the Geneva Conventions... and Ukraine has basically either been ignoring or going 'this is different!' / 'Russians are breaking it worse!' the entire time.Ukraine and Wagner Team Up in the Murder of Yevgeny Nuzhin
Russian liberals change their recommendation to Russian troops from surrender to desertion
This is what happens when a POW is humiliated and then deliberately and/or negligently transferred back to his home nation... he gets killed and/or tormented by his own government for badmouthing them... this wasn't a damned murder, Eskhakazay and the Ukrainian media is an arm of the government in Kyiv as much as Wagner Group is an arm of the Kremlin...
...and as the blurb under the headline states, completely ignoring the reasoning behind the Geneva Convention... that came into being after World War freaking One with acrimony and hatred enough to directly spawn WW2... there are repercussions to Ukraine for ignoring it just as the repercussions for Russia ignoring other 'rules' of Geneva are adding up to the definition of a Pyrrhic victory at the absolute best and kicked back to 2014 borders and all the international scourging continuing indefinitely besides at the worst.
Take that source and their version of the story with a backhoe of salt, they are anti-western lefties, even if not the woke, but more classical kind.
Secondly, interviewing POWs is not against Geneva. Forcing them into it is.
If there were, this would not get half as far in the first place.
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Unless Nuzhin wasn't brutally slaughtered by the Russians after being handed back over to them by the Ukrainians... those basic facts make that metaphorical backhoe filled with more grains of truth than salt.
...and the amount of coercion the Ukrainians can and have put on Russian POW's is 1:1 in putting them on Late Night and having the audience cheer whenever thy say 'correct things' is just stupid especially since it's directly tailored to a convict fighting for Wagner on arguably the most brutal front of the war.
it's the same with the 'interviews for family calls' given to the 18-24 year olds and/or family men. That kind of pressure is usually stronger than the drugs and/or torture made in cells by military intelligence the framers of the original conventions were thinking of.
It's disturbing feeling pretty deep sympathy for a convicted murderer like Nuzhin, but I do, he was used by the Russians, then used by the Ukrainians and then when his use to both was at an end, they disposed of him like a bloody tampon. Yech...
Is it against international law to transfer a PoW back to a country where they are likely to get tortured and/or murdered, even in exchange for one's own PoWs? Because it really should be. Even if this PoW is a convicted murderer.
Do we actually know this? Seems to me like a lot of "he said she said" mess being there, but in such a politically tense situation that's worth jack shit.
So what's the accusation there - that Ukrainians have sent a Russian criminal back to Russia in exchange for one of their men?
Is it Ukraine's duty to protect Russia's criminals\conscripts from the predations of Russian state and its subcontractors while also being invaded by them? Did he even get some sort of guarantee that might kinda create such duty, like legally valid asylum?
Meanwhile Ukraine naturally does have a duty to try get own POWs back, and one can't blame them for valuing their lives over the security of enemy POWs from their own home country.
Even if that story is by some chance accurate, under Geneva it's well into territory "it's complicated and no one thought of such a mess when writing the law".
Though looking at history, this does have precedent. During WW2 USA did exchange prisoners with Third Reich and Japan, and knowing those some risk to the lives of exchanged prisoners was certainly there.
The theory that Ukraine's refusal to try be holier than the hypothetical popes of humanitarianism is some kind of big deal internationally is something i have a hard time seeing as even remotely likely.
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Arguably, Yes. Especially if they change sides.
Moscow Working to Block Moldova from Leaving CIS
When the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) was formed, many saw it as a forum for a civilized divorce among Russia and the other 11 former Soviet republics that constituted its membership. Others, however, especially in the Kremlin, viewed it then and now as a framework for maintaining...
Why don't a majority of Moldovans want to unify with Romania yet? Still too much Sovok propaganda legacy influence?
Unification of Moldova and Romania - Wikipedia
Wagner group filmed their execution of Nuzhin with a sledgehammer. He's dead.
Ukraine has a duty of care to those it takes as POW's... handing them over for almost certain torment and / or execution by their home country because they broadcast an interview of said POW badmouthing his own country to millions to serve their own propaganda purposes is a dereliction of that duty.
Welp, you can't get any more deader than having your head smashed in with a sledgehammer. 🤨
Very true and very sad!
@ATP was right when he said that Russia was murdered by the Bolsheviks and replaced with KGBstan! Presumably under Russian jurisdiction. Ukraine is not responsible for ensuring the safety of Russians from Russian state and other Russians while in Russia. It's the sort of stuff western activists for unlimited third world asylum seekers insist on, but no one with half a brain takes too seriously. And here we aren't even talking of legally defined asylum as far as we know to add insult to injury.
That is oddly sounding as far as i know these duties as defined and i don't think such a duty exists to such a degree. If it did, that would make it effectively impossible to exchange POWs with countries that even possibly have a policy of occasionally punishing surrender, and modern Russia is certainly not the first since Geneva Convention exists.
The "almost certain" part is an exaggeration, because we are talking about this one case, not hundreds, not thousands, and even then it would have been a tough question, especially with how rightfully worried Ukraine is about the treatment of own soldiers in Russian hands.
Doomsought
Well-known member
There is no such thing is international law. There is a body of treaties that most nations sign onto, but the enforcement of those treaties on any nation that decides to break or renege upon the treaty is iffy at best, especially during war time.
Also war crimes tribunals are neither matters of criminal nor civil law. They are military justice, which is very often crimes that are made up on the spot.
FWIW, AFAIK, the Western Allies stopped returning Soviet POWs to the USSR after the end of WWII once it became clear to them that they were going to get brutally treated there.
a) They made actual deals to the contrary.
b) They weren't at war anymore, and before, not with Soviets.
c) They didn't have people they actually cared about to get from Soviets in exchange.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Croatia however never attacked Serbia despite Serbia having attacked Croatia. So it is not about morality, but about how smart the attack is in terms of strategy.
Of course, on the flip side, Serbian aircraft also did not fly from Serbia itself, generally speaking, so...
To be fair Serbians and Russians have a lot in common like the fact that any one who was under their rule never wants to be ruled by them again.
Ukraine had custody over him while he was a POW, which included the ability to exclude him from the exchange list because the leap of logic between 'This guy badmouthed Russia in front of the whole world' and 'the Russians are gonna be sore over that and probably take it out on him if he's handed back to them' is smaller than the gap between transistors on a microchip.
And yeah, the Russians could have chosen not to allow Wagner to execute him by sledgehammer, but its Russia, to show propriety would be OOC.
Considering he's dead, I don't think your argument that 'almost certain' is an exaggeration is very sound especially considering Russia's treatment of its returning POWs is infamous throughout history, and especially so in the 20th century, where it was basically automatic gulag or worse.
And they're paying a hefty price for that in Zelensky's blank check from the US, watching NATO expand and the Euros try to kick their addiction to Russian energy that was a key part of Russia's global strategy while being forced to sell their oil to India at rip off pricing per barrel while getting ripped off by China for pure Chineseium microprocessors and such... and also seeing the CIS disintegrate before their eyes from Kazakhstan becoming hostile AF to Azerbaijan pwning Armenia up to the Minsk Potato refusing to commit any forces to the offensive.
So while Ukraine's humiliation of POW's is explained in part by Russia's far more broad violations to the point of 'what Geneva Conventions?' the reasoning behind its prohibitions remains.