Russia's Brutal Honesty Has Destroyed the West's Appeasers
archived 12 Aug 2022 13:09:51 UTC
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
- Start date
Lets see how those potential new members of the Slavic Alliance are doing in the 2022 Tank Biathlon. Countries from around the World have sent their Finest Tank Crews to Russia to compete.
Here we got Sudan.
And Zimbabwe.
Iran not wanting to be left out.
And of course the Bolivarian Socialist Republic of Venezuela.
Looks like Russia is going to be Number One in this Military Contest at least.
And to be fair it's not all bad. Check out the Unrecognized State of Abkhazia doing a sick drift.
As these Tank Biathletes are using Russian T-72's Russian T-62's are being dragged out of storage for use in Ukraine.
Here we got Sudan.
And Zimbabwe.
Iran not wanting to be left out.
And of course the Bolivarian Socialist Republic of Venezuela.
Looks like Russia is going to be Number One in this Military Contest at least.
And to be fair it's not all bad. Check out the Unrecognized State of Abkhazia doing a sick drift.
As these Tank Biathletes are using Russian T-72's Russian T-62's are being dragged out of storage for use in Ukraine.
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Axis of Evil member Iran and Outposts of Tyranny member Zimbabwe. Classic!
Russian Officials Refusing to Work in Ukraine Despite Double Pay: Ukraine
"Russians continue to massively refuse to go on a dangerous business trip," the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine's Defense Ministry said.
www.newsweek.com
Russia Failing to Properly Pay, Feed Military Recruits in Ukraine–Report
Russia is also failing to pay for funeral arrangements for volunteer soldiers killed, as promised, according to the think tank report.
www.newsweek.com
I think that this law should contain an exception for humanitarian aid that one truly needs:
nitter.1d4.us
Unless of course the idea is that one personally put oneself in this situation by refusing to evacuate. But still, it's not necessarily always easy for poor, old, and disabled people to evacuate.
The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)
⚡️ Receiving, distributing Russian humanitarian aid in occupied territories to be considered collaborationism. The law on collaborationism came into force on Aug. 16. According to it, acts of collaborationism will be punished by up to 15 years in jail.
nitter.1d4.us
Unless of course the idea is that one personally put oneself in this situation by refusing to evacuate. But still, it's not necessarily always easy for poor, old, and disabled people to evacuate.
History Learner
Well-known member
Since posting this, the first defensive line in front of Kharkov has been pierced and the AFU General Staff has openly admitted there was not any Kherson offensive. Recent reporting shows their units have been shattered in attrition warfare around the city and the Russians have cleared the path by piercing much of their "trip wire" defensive line. Ukrainian sources are also freaking out because there is indications the Russians will be going all out around the 24th; I'm withholding judgement on their prediction for now, but general activity and associated Russian battlefield success continues to accumulate.
Then he was idiot.But,if he was idiot,he would never become president,so no.
Remember,he was protestant - and protestants do not have problemd with genociding other christians.Especially,if it would be done by somebody else.
Why do you think USA gave us to soviets in 1945? they thought,that Sralin would genocide us.
You are citating yourself.
And Russia is winning for last 175 days,at least according to Moscov.
But - it still could be feint.Moscov do not care how many of it slaves die,so they could wait with hidden real army for RIGHT HOUR to strike and take over world.
Not impossible.
Those are some pretty steep claims, and steep claims require evidence.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
In addition to 'citation needed,' have you dug up actual numbers on Russian ammunition production while you were gone?
Russian Fascist logic: "If Russia will lose this war, then Russia will lose its right to exist."
nitter.1d4.us
Where exactly have we heard similar logic before?
www.thehindubusinessline.com
Anatoly Karlin (@powerfultakes)
Гипотетическая Россия, которая проиграет *Украине*, не то что должна платить репарации - она на должна *существовать*.
nitter.1d4.us
Where exactly have we heard similar logic before?
Hitler ranted “Germans deserve to perish": wartime diaries
I highly doubt that the US actually wanted the Poles to be genocided. I mean, for goodness sake, the US already had a lot of Poles even then. Why aim to have Communists slaughter their family members? Rather, it was simply because the US did not want to waste additional lives in a new war against the Soviet Union in order to liberate Poland.
What war? USA had A bomb and air forces capable of deliver it.Soviets had not,and 50% of their oil come from Baku.
Americans would need only to bomb Baku,and then one soviet city per week.No A bomb needed,soviet fighters was joke.
When Truman say that soviets must run from Iran,they run.If he say the same about Poland,reaction woud be the same.
Would nuking one Soviet city per week plus nuking Baku have actually been enough for this?
By the way, if Russia genuinely wants this war to be over quickly, then it should propose this:
-Belgium-style treaty neutrality for Ukraine, complete with binding multilateral (including Western) security guarantees for Ukraine. If any of these external parties violates Ukrainian neutrality, then Ukraine can end its neutrality and join NATO.
-Treaty neutrality for Ukraine should not prohibit it from militarily cooperating with any country, only from establishing formal alliances and from having other countries' military bases on its own territory.
-The final status of Crimea and the Donbass will be deferred for the future. Or, at least, free and fair referendums will be held there (sooner or later) to determine their final status.
-Russia will withdraw back to the January 2022 front lines.
-If Russia wants the post-invasion sanctions on it lifted, then it will have to pay full war reparations to Ukraine.
@Marduk @ATP @Husky_Khan @History Learner In the unlikely event that Russia will conquer all of Ukraine, including Galicia, Volhynia, Subcarpathian Ruthenia, and Bukovina, what percentage of Ukraine's overall population (excluding Crimea and the Donbass, obviously) do you think will permanently move to the West (or to Israel, which is a Western ally and outpost)? My hunch is that it's going to be over 50%. Perhaps even significantly over 50% since Ukrainians overwhelmingly hate Russia's guts right now. Even most eastern Ukrainians.
www.iri.org
(The latter is more recent than the former, but you can also compare and contrast.)
So, I just can't imagine most Ukrainians staying put if Russia will conquer their entire country and if resistance (insurgency, planting bombs, a Solidarity-style movement, et cetera) won't be a realistic and viable option for them.
In turn, in such a scenario, Poland's population could absolutely explode: It's currently slightly over 40 million but might increase by 10+ million in a short time period. The rest of Ukraine's population would move to other parts of the West in this scenario, or to Israel for those Ukrainians with close Jewish descent. Such a population explosion could provide the very same kind of boost to Poland that the 1990s wave of ex-USSR Jewish immigration previously provided for Israel.
But of course this is for truly the worst-case scenario. I don't think that all of Ukraine is ever actually going to fall to the Russians, but if it will, I would expect Russian deaths in the current war to be in the hundreds of thousands, if not over a million. World War I-style levels of deaths! And it might very well require a draft since I'm strongly unsure that there would actually be enough Russian (or Ukrainian, for that matter) volunteers in a war that requires such levels of deaths and casualties for victory.
Public Opinion Survey of Residents of Ukraine
www.iri.org
(The latter is more recent than the former, but you can also compare and contrast.)
So, I just can't imagine most Ukrainians staying put if Russia will conquer their entire country and if resistance (insurgency, planting bombs, a Solidarity-style movement, et cetera) won't be a realistic and viable option for them.
In turn, in such a scenario, Poland's population could absolutely explode: It's currently slightly over 40 million but might increase by 10+ million in a short time period. The rest of Ukraine's population would move to other parts of the West in this scenario, or to Israel for those Ukrainians with close Jewish descent. Such a population explosion could provide the very same kind of boost to Poland that the 1990s wave of ex-USSR Jewish immigration previously provided for Israel.
But of course this is for truly the worst-case scenario. I don't think that all of Ukraine is ever actually going to fall to the Russians, but if it will, I would expect Russian deaths in the current war to be in the hundreds of thousands, if not over a million. World War I-style levels of deaths! And it might very well require a draft since I'm strongly unsure that there would actually be enough Russian (or Ukrainian, for that matter) volunteers in a war that requires such levels of deaths and casualties for victory.
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LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Ukraine will not trust Russia to make or keep such a promise, nor is it likely to trust NATO for such. In the treaty in which it gave up its nuclear arsenal, NATO and Russia promised to protect its territorial integrity in return.
Now Russia is claiming Ukraine was never a real country in the first place.
Yeah, a NATO security guarantee is likely to be much more reliable for Ukraine than any security guarantees that come from a neutrality treaty. At the very least, the political fallout from violating a security promise to a NATO ally is likely to be harsher.
But Russia doesn't want it to be over quickly, Russia wants it to be over victoriously due to sunken costs.
And these conditions would be unacceptable to Russia. It the FSB, SVR and GRU running wild around Ukraine means Ukraine is allowed to join NATO, then you may aswell put that in the treaty.
Likewise, withdrawing? Paying reparations to end sanctions? Not with anything resembling the current government.
That's not how large scale population movements work. 50% in a short timeframe? Impossible. Maybye over a couple decades, and even that would be very fast. Even Syria didn't lose half its population despite what a shithole it is being over the last decade.
It's still just another random piece of paper. Reminder that USA and UK, among others, already have guaranteed Ukraine's security in the Budapest Memorandum. What matters is willingness of the guaranteeing countries to escalate if shit happens. That's why Ukraine will try to go for NATO and/or at least EU membership.