Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[ATP]

I think the plan was to replace the Moskva with some helicarrier currently in construction.
Fram what I understand it was kept around because it was big enough to properly house an admiral and staff.

Anyways, back to the Slav Civil War:

Not slav cyvil war,becouse Moscov and Poland are separate nations,so all wars between us could not be described as cyvil.
Moreover,Moscov are more mongols and ugrofins then slavs,and we are as german as slavic,and have real sarmatian roots,too.

Dmowski was partially right,but you could not accuse current Poland about being like that - Putin and his KGB mafia are not russians,but soviets,so hating them is no the same as hating long dead Russia.

Frankly, the only thing people on this thread know - with all our levels of clearance (LOL) - is that some kind of explosion happened on the ship.
Can be a hit, sabotage, or accident. All are known to happen during a conflict.

If it was any other fleet,i would call it bullshit.But,russians sunked Kursk with its own torpedo,so accident is possible

 

[paulobrito]

If it was any other fleet,i would call it bullshit.But,russians sunked Kursk with its own torpedo,so accident is possible

All navies have serious incidents. Is part of the job. Recently you have the case of the US Carrier that burned and is a total loss in port, serious damage to the Russian carrier, India having a submarine with a fire on port, etc, etc.
Name a navy and i bet i can dig some serious problem one time or another.

 

[Agent23]

All navies have serious incidents. Is part of the job. Recently you have the case of the US Carrier that burned and is a total loss in port, serious damage to the Russian carrier, India having a submarine with a fire on port, etc, etc.
Name a navy and i bet i can dig some serious problem one time or another.

Already dug up 2 for the USA.
And don't get me started on the British and their many blunders.My favorite always was the systematic, fleet-wide and very deliberate disregard of cordite handling procedures that led to a substantial portion of their dreadnought fleet getting sunk in WWI.

 

[ATP]

Already dug up 2 for the USA.
And don't get me started on the British and their many blunders.My favorite always was the systematic, fleet-wide and very deliberate disregard of cordite handling procedures that led to a substantial portion of their dreadnought fleet getting sunk in WWI.

That was battlecruisers,not battleships.But yes,without that german fleet probably would not manage to widraw during Jutland battle.

 

[Agent23]

The Moskva is officially dead. I will say this again just in case anybody is wondering if I am on narcotics. But the Moskva is officially dead. He died from a storm while also being on fire apparently.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383

(I did this from my mobile. So the quoting of the TASS article will be rough)

Well, no big loss, especially since the replacement is being built already.

On 11 October 2021, it was reported that Mitrofan Moskalenko will become the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet. Infrastructure facilities initially intended for the second Mistral-class vessel are being prepared in Sevastopol, scheduled to be ready by the time the LHD is commissioned.[22]

https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2021/10/11/16960/?h

 

[Vaermina]

Well, no big loss, especially since the replacement is being built already.

https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2021/10/11/16960/?h

You do realize that the Mitrofan Moskalenko is years away from being finished?

That's assuming it even can be finished with Russia being cut off from access to pretty much everything.

 

[paulobrito]

That fantasy that Russia don't have capability to produce anything is real boring. They don't have some advanced techs, but have a capable if a bit dated industry. And have improving a lot in the last two decades. Still behind the US/EU in several areas, true, but very different from not having industrial capability.

 

[planefag]

Well, no big loss, especially since the replacement is being built already.

HE SAID IT! HE SAID THE LINE!

YOUR NEXT LINE WILL BE "WINNING THE ISK WAR"

 

[ATP]

That fantasy that Russia don't have capability to produce anything is real boring. They don't have some advanced techs, but have a capable if a bit dated industry. And have improving a lot in the last two decades. Still behind the US/EU in several areas, true, but very different from not having industrial capability.

Not anything,but bigger warships.Or modern tanks.Or new generation fighters.
They certainly could not produce T.90 now.

 

[planefag]

LET THE COPING BEGIN

Russia’s Moskva cruiser sinks following Ukrainian claim of missile strike

Russia initially denied reports that warship sank, then later claimed it went down in stormy seas while being towed to port

www.theguardian.com

The Moskva was basically a sea-mobile S-300 battery that could plant a long-range air denial weapon anywhere along Ukraine's black sea coast.

And now, it can't.

 

[Husky_Khan]

You do realize that the Mitrofan Moskalenko is years away from being finished?

That's assuming it even can be finished with Russia being cut off from access to pretty much everything.

Convenient it's being built in Sevastopol at least. The Black Seas Fleet keeps unexpectedly losing ships so it's nice to have the production so close to the Theater of Operations.

 

[Abhorsen]

Well, no big loss, especially since the replacement is being built already.



https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2021/10/11/16960/?h

Yeah, that'll take a few years to build at least. And it wasn't a replacement ship, that was an additional ship. I doubt they were going to retire the Moskva after they finished that one. This is a pretty big loss. There were only 3 of these Russian ships, now there are two, both in the Mediterranean. On top of that, its a CIC ship, which means that it was providing value greater than just shooting stuff.

Worse, it means that Ukraine has a threat in being vs Russian ships that apparently they cannot stop. That's an issue.

 

[Agent23]

Yeah, that'll take a few years to build at least. And it wasn't a replacement ship, that was an additional ship. I doubt they were going to retire the Moskva after they finished that one. This is a pretty big loss. There were only 3 of these Russian ships, now there are two, both in the Mediterranean. On top of that, its a CIC ship, which means that it was providing value greater than just shooting stuff.

Worse, it means that Ukraine has a threat in being vs Russian ships that apparently they cannot stop. That's an issue.

They decided to make the Moskalenko a replacement for the Moskva in 2021.
That very same Moskva was built in the 1970s and commissioned in the early 1980s, it is literally older than I am, and probably older than most people on this board.
Also, the replacement ship has 4x the tonnage.

He covers the missile attack. And it does not make Russian Naval training look good.

40+ year old ship vs. a knockoff of a missile that first saw production in 2003 and was Russian to begin with.
One that is supposed to fly low and be very stealthy.
I mean it is not impossible, but notice that the Pentagon spokesman didn't confirm this happened, and they would be the first to gloat if their pet nazis managed to score.

Yeah, not buying the Ukroclowns' narrative.

 

[Abhorsen]

They decided to make the Moskalenko a replacement for the Moskva in 2021.
That very same Moskva was built in the 1970s and commissioned in the early 1980s, it is literally older than I am, and probably older than most people on this board.
Also, the replacement ship has 4x the tonnage.

Yeah, it's an old ship, but it was also frequently updated, and it doesn't seem it was going to be replaced, but instead added to. I don't see evidence they wouldn't have kept using the Moskva but made the new ship the flagship.

Also, in sinking the flagship, there's a decent chance higher ups in the Russian Navy were killed, which could contribute further to Russia's lack of quality warfighters.

 

[Husky_Khan]

They decided to make the Moskalenko a replacement for the Moskva in 2021.
That very same Moskva was built in the 1970s and commissioned in the early 1980s, it is literally older than I am, and probably older than most people on this board.
Also, the replacement ship has 4x the tonnage.

Four times the tonnage? So it's an Amphibious Assault Ship?

And the Russians were intending that an Amphibious Assault Ship like the Moskalenko to replace a Guided Missile Cruiser?

Not say... the Mistral-Class that was never going to be built in Sevastopol? Not say... a replacement flagship for the Black Seas Fleet?

Oh hey we're replacing our major surface unit with an amphibious helicopter carrier! It totally makes sense now! The Moskalenko has even less anti-missile defense then the Moskva. Should be good times seeing it perform a similar role.

 

[Agent23]

Yeah, it's an old ship, but it was also frequently updated, and it doesn't seem it was going to be replaced, but instead added to. I don't see evidence they wouldn't have kept using the Moskva but made the new ship the flagship.

Also, in sinking the flagship, there's a decent chance higher ups in the Russian Navy were killed, which could contribute further to Russia's lack of quality warfighters.

It says that is the plan in both the wiki article and that link news site I linked to.
It was decided last year.

Turdface's daddy is probably rolling in his grave, in related news, Cuba to improve electricity generation thanks to Fidel.

 

[Agent23]

In other news unrelated to the whole ship discussion soon to be banished to the HuskyKarren DonBass thread:

Canada failed when it trained Ukrainian troops linked to the far right, says Nazi hunter

Canada trained Ukrainian neonazis, well whaddaya know, Putin was actually right and all the whiny little neocucks on here were wrong, again.

 

[Abhorsen]

It says that is the plan in both the wiki article and that link news site I linked to.
It was decided last year.

Neither of those even mention the Moskva. Again, it's not a replacement ship, it's just intended to replace it as the flagship. They still intended to keep the Moskva as a missile cruiser, which now they cannot do. This is a pretty big loss.


Also, I didn't realize this, but the Bosporus is closed to warships. So with that, Russia can't get it's ships from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea, which could end up being pretty bad long term. I'd rate any chance of an amphibious invasion as pretty low to non-existent now.

The one thing I am pleasantly surprised about is Moldova not declaring war on it's Russian puppet state, when now is clearly the time to do it.

 

[Sailor.X]

They decided to make the Moskalenko a replacement for the Moskva in 2021.
That very same Moskva was built in the 1970s and commissioned in the early 1980s, it is literally older than I am, and probably older than most people on this board.
Also, the replacement ship has 4x the tonnage.


40+ year old ship vs. a knockoff of a missile that first saw production in 2003 and was Russian to begin with.
One that is supposed to fly low and be very stealthy.
I mean it is not impossible, but notice that the Pentagon spokesman didn't confirm this happened, and they would be the first to gloat if their pet nazis managed to score.

Yeah, not buying the Ukroclowns' narrative.

Agent23 Russia is down one ship. The Pentagon does not have to gloat. The fact that the Russian Navy's Shipboard at sea in a combat area damage control team are a laughing joke is pretty damning in an of itself. Are you gonna shill for the Russian Navy or do I have to crack my knuckles and bombard you with all of the current Russian Naval Fuckups. Take the L and head back to shore Landlubber.

 

[Zachowon]

LET THE COPING BEGIN

Russia’s Moskva cruiser sinks following Ukrainian claim of missile strike

Russia initially denied reports that warship sank, then later claimed it went down in stormy seas while being towed to port

www.theguardian.com

The Moskva was basically a sea-mobile S-300 battery that could plant a long-range air denial weapon anywhere along Ukraine's black sea coast.

And now, it can't.

I mean.
Now it can do that as a submarine.
They found out it was horrible ABOVE the water so now it is time for that underwater use