United States 2024: United States Senate Dicussion Thread

[Ixian]

I'm saying that there's not enough time for them to repackage it prior to the election, and then Trump will do something far different.

It's definitely a nice list of what they want to do, but remember that there were years between the Green New Deal and the Infrastructure stuff.

I'm not certain Trump will pull out a win. Roughly 50% of the population thinks he was convicted for rape, despite not having the ability to find a single source supporting this when asked, they still vehemently argue that he was. These are normies, not die hard Democrats.

So assuming this bill is dead because they can't push it again before the election seems to be overly optimistic.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I'm not certain Trump will pull out a win. Roughly 50% of the population thinks he was convicted for rape, despite not having the ability to find a single source supporting this when asked, they still vehemently argue that he was. These are normies, not die hard Democrats.

So assuming this bill is dead because they can't push it again before the election seems to be overly optimistic.

Look more deeply into those 'poll' numbers and you'll find they religiously over sample self-identified democrats and leftists. Which is why I don't buy that 50% number all the journos like to throw around.

 

[Abhorsen]

I'm not certain Trump will pull out a win. Roughly 50% of the population thinks he was convicted for rape, despite not having the ability to find a single source supporting this when asked, they still vehemently argue that he was. These are normies, not die hard Democrats.

So assuming this bill is dead because they can't push it again before the election seems to be overly optimistic.

Well, if they win the election and get a majority in the house as well, then yeah. They'll run roughshod over our rights. The issue here was more "Will R's cuck?" And they held firm. There's always the chance that the D's win enough that it doesn't matter.

 

[Captain X]

The only way Democrats can win is by cheating, which is exactly what they'll do.

 

[Abhorsen]

The only way Democrats can win is by cheating, which is exactly what they'll do.

The problem is that they don't have unlimited ability to cheat, and some states have secured elections. With people being far more alert to it this time, along with the US's state separation stopping bullshit from happening everywhere (ballot stuffing in CA won't affect the presidential election at all, for example), it's very winnable.

 

[Rocinante]

The problem is that they don't have unlimited ability to cheat, and some states have secured elections. With people being far more alert to it this time, along with the US's state separation stopping bullshit from happening everywhere (ballot stuffing in CA won't affect the presidential election at all, for example), it's very winnable.

There's also going to be much closer eyes in this one, and with no covid, they won't be able to pull some of the same tricks.

Yes, I agree that it's potentially winnable.

 

[DarthOne]

All true. However I still wonder if it’s an intentional loss to give Trump a poisoned chalice as the economy gets worse.

That way the neocons and neolibs can go ‘see, this is what you get when you listen to populism instead of us enlightened elites!’ Or something similar.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

There's also going to be much closer eyes in this one, and with no covid, they won't be able to pull some of the same trick

Unless Covid, or some other virus, makes an appearance. I'm not putting that past them.

All true. However I still wonder if it’s an intentional loss to give Trump a poisoned chalice as the economy gets worse.

That way the neocons and neolibs can go ‘see, this is what you get when you listen to populism instead of us enlightened elites!’ Or something similar.

I'm sure this is a contingency plan for the Left.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

All true. However I still wonder if it’s an intentional loss to give Trump a poisoned chalice as the economy gets worse.

That way the neocons and neolibs can go ‘see, this is what you get when you listen to populism instead of us enlightened elites!’ Or something similar.

You might be overthinking it a touch.

These people aren’t actually that intelligent.

 

[Abhorsen]

So Mitch might be going. Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, and some others seem to be starting a revolt.

Behind the border mess: Open GOP rebellion against McConnell

The Republican leader told POLITICO that his critics "had their shot" already. But conservatives are not done whacking him over the immigration-for-Ukraine aid implosion.

www.politico.com

Sadly, I'm not sure if there's a mechanism to spontaneously eject him.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Sadly, I'm not sure if there's a mechanism to spontaneously eject him.

You get enough of the Republican Senators to just straight up ignore any of his wishes/orders/demands and begin to just do their own thing. He becomes useless and powerless.

 

[Captain X]

The problem is that they don't have unlimited ability to cheat, and some states have secured elections. With people being far more alert to it this time, along with the US's state separation stopping bullshit from happening everywhere (ballot stuffing in CA won't affect the presidential election at all, for example), it's very winnable.

First off, they've already done it more than once, as it not only happened in the 2020 Presidential election, but also in the Georgia senator election, the California recall election, and the Arizona governor election.

Second off, we're talking about senate elections.

And to top it off, it hasn't mattered one lick when we've exposed the evidence that there was election fraud, and the only end result of that so far is that the company that did the audits has been sued by the company that makes the voting machines.

 

[Cherico]

The only way Democrats can win is by cheating, which is exactly what they'll do.

When things hit a critical mass and even that stops working that's when they will give up on even the apperance of democracy.

First off, they've already done it more than once, as it not only happened in the 2020 Presidential election, but also in the Georgia senator election, the California recall election, and the Arizona governor election.

Second off, we're talking about senate elections.

And to top it off, it hasn't mattered one lick when we've exposed the evidence that there was election fraud, and the only end result of that so far is that the company that did the audits has been sued by the company that makes the voting machines.

People are not angry enough yet not mad enough yet, when it hits a critical level you will know.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Personally, I think the border deal was the best deal possible before 2025. No matter if (or how many times) you overthrow the Republican leadership in House and Senate, it's all rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic if you can't get Biden to sign it (and Schumer to put it on the floor).

Now, if you think the deal was worse than nothing, then it makes sense to torpedo it and hope for Republican sweeps in the upcoming election. But if not, it isn't as if this deal would stop the (hypothetical) post-sweep Republicans from rearranging the landscape next year.

 

[Rocinante]

Personally, I think the border deal was the best deal possible before 2025. No matter if (or how many times) you overthrow the Republican leadership in House and Senate, it's all rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic if you can't get Biden to sign it (and Schumer to put it on the floor).

Now, if you think the deal was worse than nothing, then it makes sense to torpedo it and hope for Republican sweeps in the upcoming election. But if not, it isn't as if this deal would stop the (hypothetical) post-sweep Republicans from rearranging the landscape next year.

Judging from what I've seen it was actively worse than just doing nothing. It allowed for 1.5 million illegal immigrants a year. Right now that number is zero, if they'd enforce the laws on the books.

This "negotiation," is a step backwards.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Personally, I think the border deal was the best deal possible before 2025. No matter if (or how many times) you overthrow the Republican leadership in House and Senate, it's all rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic if you can't get Biden to sign it (and Schumer to put it on the floor).

Now, if you think the deal was worse than nothing, then it makes sense to torpedo it and hope for Republican sweeps in the upcoming election. But if not, it isn't as if this deal would stop the (hypothetical) post-sweep Republicans from rearranging the landscape next year.

It was MUCH, MUCH worse than nothing. It authorized millions of illegals to just run across our borders as if they didn't exist.

 

[Blasterbot]

It also would tie Trumps hands in a few ways on how he could deal with the border. meaning it would give lefty aligned courts more ways to conduct lawfare to subvert the administration. that there were any republicans who supported it means either they did not read the bill and should be kicked out for sheer bloody incompetence or they actively supported this in which case they do not represent their constituencies and should be voted out of office.

 

[Abhorsen]

Solving a problem badly or even partially is worse than not solving it when it comes to politics, because it destroys willpower to actually solve the problem.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Solving a problem badly or even partially is worse than not solving it when it comes to politics, because it destroys willpower to actually solve the problem.

That's fair, to a certain extent. Particularly if you think it would not only reduce the direct motivation but also impact the election.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Judging from what I've seen it was actively worse than just doing nothing. It allowed for 1.5 million illegal immigrants a year. Right now that number is zero, if they'd enforce the laws on the books.

This "negotiation," is a step backwards.

This, however ... whatever the reason is for the way things are on the border, that's the reality on the ground. Biden isn't doing zero, nor did Trump before him, nor Obama, nor Bush, and I don't see reason to think that Trump is going to do zero if he wins based on the laws on the books today.