ATP

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If they didn't exist, who spoke Ukrainian then, and why did Russians ban teaching it?
Time traveling Austrians?
Don't tell me they had shotguns and sunglasses.

Yet Palestinian Arabs and all the nearby Arab countries still don't even try to have their separate languages, they all speak Arabic.
1.First,not one language,but local languages.Which was made into one in 19th century.
Second,people used many languages when nations do not existed yet,becouse they consider themselves as somebocy subject.
We poles become nation,but only for gentry,in 13 th century.Yet,polish languages existed before that.

For our case,ukrainians on Wołyń considered themselves as tsar subjects till 1928,when Poland started teaching them ukrainian and hired teachers for that.They even replaced old pops who prayed for tsar with new ones who prayed for Ukraine.

Result - in 1943 they genocided more then 60.000 poles in most possible cruel ways,when their teachers and pops lead them to slaughter polish children.
.If we do not teach them anytching,they would still consider themselves as tsar subjects,and kill few people for their riches.

2.Becouse it is sacred language of Koran,and they are all good muslims.Most muslims speak arabic for that reason,even if they are not arabs.
Just like palestinians.
 

Marduk

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1.First,not one language,but local languages.Which was made into one in 19th century.
Second,people used many languages when nations do not existed yet,becouse they consider themselves as somebocy subject.
We poles become nation,but only for gentry,in 13 th century.Yet,polish languages existed before that.

For our case,ukrainians on Wołyń considered themselves as tsar subjects till 1928,when Poland started teaching them ukrainian and hired teachers for that.They even replaced old pops who prayed for tsar with new ones who prayed for Ukraine.

Result - in 1943 they genocided more then 60.000 poles in most possible cruel ways,when their teachers and pops lead them to slaughter polish children.
.If we do not teach them anytching,they would still consider themselves as tsar subjects,and kill few people for their riches.
As usual, your pet theories are not in line with reality.
Because of the substantial number of loanwords from Polish, German, Czech and Latin, early modern vernacular Ukrainian (prosta mova, "simple speech") had more lexical similarity with West Slavic languages than with Russian or Church Slavonic.[32] By the mid-17th century, the linguistic divergence between the Ukrainian and Russian languages had become so significant that there was a need for translators during negotiations for the Treaty of Pereyaslav, between Bohdan Khmelnytsky, head of the Zaporozhian Host, and the Russian state.[33]
2.Becouse it is sacred language of Koran,and they are all good muslims.Most muslims speak arabic for that reason,even if they are not arabs.
Just like palestinians.
No, non-Arab Muslim countries with a clear national identity absolutely don't. Iran, nope. Turkey, nope. Malaysia, nope. Indonesia, nope. Tatars, nope. Pakistan, nope. Not even Afghanistan. Only Arabs and peoples highly assimilated by them took on their language as the main language. In others, they learn Arabic similarly as Christians used to learn Latin, if they bother at all.
 
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ATP

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As usual, your pet theories are not in line with reality.


No, non-Arab Muslim countries with a clear national identity absolutely don't. Iran, nope. Turkey, nope. Malaysia, nope. Indonesia, nope. Tatars, nope. Pakistan, nope. Not even Afghanistan. Only Arabs and peoples highly assimilated by them took on their language as the main language. In others, they learn Arabic similarly as Christians used to learn Latin, if they bother at all.
1.So,you decide to name reality as my pet theories.Nice,but told me - if ukrainians were nation in 1920,why almost nobody fought for Kiev against soviets?
Becouse in Warsaw all able-bodied man go to army,including older schooboys.
Well,polish able-bodied man.
Jews made gates for coming soviets to welcome them.

Even in 2014 so-called ukrainians from east and central Ukraine do not fought Moscov.
ukrainians are artifical nation made by austrians after 1848 - who just become real thanks to comrade putin stupidity.
I hope,that he would rule Moscov for next 100 years,maybe oter nations would made their states in former Russia,too.

And,in case you forget - language/or rather languages/ do not mean existing nation.

2.Palestinians are old caananities which become jews,then pagans,then chrystians,then muslims.Of course,tat they speak arab language - they always take culture of their overlords.
Strange,that they do not become jews again.They once was lost 10 Izrael tribes,after all !
 

Marduk

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1.So,you decide to name reality as my pet theories.Nice,but told me - if ukrainians were nation in 1920,why almost nobody fought for Kiev against soviets?
Some fought, still, at the time the place was a complete mess, and some supported the commies.
Becouse in Warsaw all able-bodied man go to army,including older schooboys.
Well,polish able-bodied man.
Jews made gates for coming soviets to welcome them.
Poland had definitely higher morale in that war, but that doesn't mean Ukrainian nation didn't exist.
Even in 2014 so-called ukrainians from east and central Ukraine do not fought Moscov.
ukrainians are artifical nation made by austrians after 1848 - who just become real thanks to comrade putin stupidity.
I hope,that he would rule Moscov for next 100 years,maybe oter nations would made their states in former Russia,too.

And,in case you forget - language/or rather languages/ do not mean existing nation.
Again, low morale in a war doesn't mean a nation doesn't exist - if it did, France and few other countries would not exist after WW2.
2.Palestinians are old caananities which become jews,then pagans,then chrystians,then muslims.Of course,tat they speak arab language - they always take culture of their overlords.
Strange,that they do not become jews again.They once was lost 10 Izrael tribes,after all !
And here you have it, your pet theories just don't fit with reality. As i said, regardless of how it worked before Arabs, they got completely assimilated into the Arab people, complete with interbreeding and adopting their culture, separating them out now is nothing but a political tactical move from the 70's
In the 7th century, the Arab Rashiduns conquered the Levant; they were later succeeded by other Arabic-speaking Muslim dynasties, including the Umayyads, Abbasids and the Fatimids.[95] Over the following several centuries, the population of Palestine drastically decreased, from an estimated 1 million during the Roman and Byzantine periods to about 300,000 by the early Ottoman period.[96][97] Over time, much of the existing population adopted Arab culture and language and converted to Islam.[93] The settlement of Arabs before and after the Muslim conquest is thought to have played a role in accelerating the Islamization process.[98][99][100][101] Some scholars suggest that by the arrival of the Crusaders, Palestine was already overwhelmingly Muslim,[102][103] while others claim that it was only after the Crusades that the Christians lost their majority, and that the process of mass Islamization took place much later, perhaps during the Mamluk period.[98][104]

For several centuries during the Ottoman period the population in Palestine declined and fluctuated between 150,000 and 250,000 inhabitants, and it was only in the 19th century that a rapid population growth began to occur.[105] This growth was aided by the immigration of Egyptians (during the reigns of Muhammad Ali and Ibrahim Pasha) and Algerians (following Abdelkader El Djezaïri's revolt) in the first half of the 19th century, and the subsequent immigration of Algerians, Bosnians, and Circassians during the second half of the century.[106][107][108]
.
Apparently between Roman era Christian majority and XIX century the population of the area declined by 85% (probably has something to do with how the arabization was done), and that's with some Arab settlement, and then it got a massive wave of immigration from the rest of islamic world in XIX century, so most of current Palestinian population must be more related to those peoples than to ancient Rome era locals.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Some fought, still, at the time the place was a complete mess, and some supported the commies.

Poland had definitely higher morale in that war, but that doesn't mean Ukrainian nation didn't exist.

Again, low morale in a war doesn't mean a nation doesn't exist - if it did, France and few other countries would not exist after WW2.

And here you have it, your pet theories just don't fit with reality. As i said, regardless of how it worked before Arabs, they got completely assimilated into the Arab people, complete with interbreeding and adopting their culture, separating them out now is nothing but a political tactical move from the 70's

Apparently between Roman era Christian majority and XIX century the population of the area declined by 85% (probably has something to do with how the arabization was done), and that's with some Arab settlement, and then it got a massive wave of immigration from the rest of islamic world in XIX century, so most of current Palestinian population must be more related to those peoples than to ancient Rome era locals.
1.If they were nation,most would fought.
2.Existed - as very small minority among ukrainian - speaking population.In case of Wołyń,ukrainian speaking peasants there in 1920 was faitfull tsar subjects.
The same goes for rest od russian hold territory.
3.In France they at least fought,in Ukraine when poles take Kiev and Petlura made mobilization,almost nobody come.
And all those people speak ukrainian languages.
4.Not pet theory,DNA.The same people lived there from bronze age to 1949.
5.arabs in Iraq,from which some settlers come,are partially descendents pf exiled jews from real Izrael.
 

Marduk

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1.If they were nation,most would fought.
2.Existed - as very small minority among ukrainian - speaking population.In case of Wołyń,ukrainian speaking peasants there in 1920 was faitfull tsar subjects.
The same goes for rest od russian hold territory.
3.In France they at least fought,in Ukraine when poles take Kiev and Petlura made mobilization,almost nobody come.
Over 100k people fought. Not a great number, but not exactly "almost nobody", especially so soon after the misery of WW1.
And all those people speak ukrainian languages.
4.Not pet theory,DNA.The same people lived there from bronze age to 1949.
Can you link those tests? All the MENA people are highly interbred, "same people" go as far as the Arabian Peninsula. Genetically you can hardly tell them from Syrians or Jordanians either.
As expected, DNA studies make a joke of the Khazar theory you recently pushed, and as i said, show that Jews (yes, even Askhenazi ones) and Palestinians (and all the other Semitic populations in the region) are all closely related.
Hammer_2000_Jew_Arab_Ychromosome.png

Funny enough, by paternal DNA apparently Jews are more related to Samaritans than Palestinians are.
For the Y-chromosome, all Jewish groups (except for the Ethiopian Jews) are closely related to each other and do not differ significantly from the Samaritans (0.041) or Druze (0.033), but are different from Palestinian Arabs (0.163), Africans (0.219), and Europeans (0.111). This study indicated that the Samaritan and Jewish Y-chromosomes have a much greater affinity for the other than for their geographical neighbors, the Palestinian Arabs. This suggests the two share a common ancestral Near Eastern population preceding their divergence in the 4th century BCE, supporting the Samaritan narrative of descent from native Israelites who survived the Assyrian exile rather than from foreign populations introduced by the Assyrian Empire.[55]
5.arabs in Iraq,from which some settlers come,are partially descendents pf exiled jews from real Izrael.
Probably a miniscule effect not showing up in random population studies.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
As usual, your pet theories are not in line with reality.


No, non-Arab Muslim countries with a clear national identity absolutely don't. Iran, nope. Turkey, nope. Malaysia, nope. Indonesia, nope. Tatars, nope. Pakistan, nope. Not even Afghanistan. Only Arabs and peoples highly assimilated by them took on their language as the main language. In others, they learn Arabic similarly as Christians used to learn Latin, if they bother at all.
That's actually not true. Let's use Turks as an example Turks existed before Attaturk. Yet before his rule Turks and the Ottomans while they spoke Turkish they also just as often spoke Arabic, instead even AFTER Attaturk the Koran the Islamic holy book is still in Arabic. This is part of the reason that I think Islam is false it seems like an Arabic supremacist religion trying to colonize other nations into Arabs. But those people did speak Arabic and were influenced by it.
 
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Marduk

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That's actually not true. Let's use Turks as an example Turks existed before Attaturk. Yet before his rule Turks and the Ottomans while they spoke Turkish they also just as often spoke Arabic, instead even AFTER Attaturk the Koran the Islamic holy book is still in Arabic. This is part of the reason that I think Islam is false it seems like an Arabic supremacist religion trying to colonize other nations into Arabs. But those people did speak Arabic and were influenced by it.
There is obvious Arabic supremacism in Islam, especially the mainstream Sunni one, privileging Arabic language over all others, that is the official doctrine, translations don't really count for use in religious scholarship and rituals.
However, the distinction is that some peoples, like Iranians more or less often learn Arabic for mostly religious purposes, kinda like Catholic priests had to learn Latin, while others, assimilated by Arabs fully, use it as their native language.

However, Christianity also historically had its share of controversy about use of translated Bible and rituals, so that's YMMV.
 

Bacle

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Maybe if Iranian's didn't want to get blamed for helping Russia, they should actually remove the IRGC and Ayatollah or at least sabotage the arms shipments and drone factories.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Over 100k people fought. Not a great number, but not exactly "almost nobody", especially so soon after the misery of WW1.

Can you link those tests? All the MENA people are highly interbred, "same people" go as far as the Arabian Peninsula. Genetically you can hardly tell them from Syrians or Jordanians either.
As expected, DNA studies make a joke of the Khazar theory you recently pushed, and as i said, show that Jews (yes, even Askhenazi ones) and Palestinians (and all the other Semitic populations in the region) are all closely related.
Hammer_2000_Jew_Arab_Ychromosome.png

Funny enough, by paternal DNA apparently Jews are more related to Samaritans than Palestinians are.


Probably a miniscule effect not showing up in random population studies.
1.100k? after taking Kiev by poles? i do not think so.It was maybe 20k.
Ukrainians had their own state,their own capitol,and refused to fight for it.
Twice.
First ukrainian state was made by germans - but,since ukrainians do not want to fight and risk their life for Ukraine,it fall when german forces leaved.
When polish state survived - becouse most polish-speaking people considered temselves as poles.

There was funny episode described by Zofia Kossak-Szczucka - ukrainian made unit of "death hussarls" which bullied local poles and jews,but when enemies was nearby they all leaved,except commander,who try to commit suicide,but decide to drink instead.

2.Eastern jews was real jews? then why american jews do not wanted them in USA?
And western european jews do not wanted them,too,as long as they keep them away.

3.Or maybe scientist knew what they should get.
 

ATP

Well-known member
In 2018 brazilian artist Marina Amaral showed improvised photo of so called jewish boy murdered by nazis.and it was showed on PBSLearningMedia.org.

jewish boy was in reality polish girl Czesława Kwoka murdered by germans 12.03.1943.
Even Museum in Auschwitz corrected that.

Result - picture was removed,becouse polish could not be victims,only nazis.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Izraeli reported,Yossi Elli,decide to check how tolerant jews are and cosplayed as catholic monk.
Result - at least 3 persons split on him,including child and soldier.

Here:



If it was reporter cosplaing as jew in Warsaw,entire world woul shout Holocaust.
We live in clown world.

P.S Jews,of course,did notching to cryminals.
 

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