Go argue with yourself, where did i argue that Russian military is harmless?
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
- Start date
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
You are arguing with another poster on here that they are extremely unimpressive.
I am hyperbolizing, sure, but you provide an excellent base for, courtesy of selective amnesia, hypocrisy and illogical Russophobia.
And since you can't be reasoned with where Russia is concerned I am just using you for entertainment in between CS rounds.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Least you can debate/argue with the mods here without getting banhammered anyways the above is a pointless derail in the making.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
If he wasn't a mod I would have blocked him like I did Zawhatshisname.
So you are admitting to being so insecure in your position that you need to shut out people who challenge it?
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
No, I admit being tired at repeating myself over and over and over.
Contrary to popular belief, Putler does not pay me to shitpost on here, and talking to those two about the complexities of foreign affairs and geopolitics is like trying to explain programming to five year old pumped full of caffeine.
Also, I am completely and utterly fed up with the Polish obsession with Russia and their inferiority complex where it is concerned.
They are suffering from tunnel vision and anyone can easily turn them into pawns and use them, then isolate them internationally.
Not as unimpressive as your predictions that Russia won't invade Ukraine.
Considering recent events, i'd like to hear your argument about Russophobia being illogical, you know, after all these Russophobes, warhawks and others who thought Russia will invade Ukraine have been vindicated.
Yeah, that country firing cruise missiles right next to your borders while invading your neighbor and threatening other nearby countries, stop obsessing about it, go obsess about something irrelevant to you that is relevant to me instead.
Oh the horror, they could be turned into pawns, so much worse than already being pawns.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Does the concept of self-fulfilling prophecy ring a bell?
it is not like I haven't outlined what Putin wanted and why over and over and over, it is not like I haven't linked the wonderful video of Maershimer's about how Ukraine is the west's fault at least twice, it is not like the Murikans haven't predicted this Invasion for over 8 years now and it is not like Putin didn't give Zelenski a way out by recognizing the Donbass officially and it is not like I haven't covered what happened next and why over and over and over.
You ignore me, you parrot the same tired lines about Russia, you shed crocodile tears about Ukrainians.
That is how I can summarize our interactions.
The other two poles on here are actually a lot more honest and dare I say less obsessed.
As far as I know they actually understands the complexities of foreign affairs and geopolitics. They just disagree with you about in their assessment.
Poland doesn't have an inferiority complex, because they know each time Russia took the down- they did so like a cowardly bitch. Oh a partition, another partition, and another partition. To beat the poles, they literally had to team up with other countries to take down Poland.
And I am not even sure what is going on in the Ukraine, since there is insane amounts of disinfo and propaganda. I mean it is like listening to a thousand Tokyo Roses and Baghdad Bobs scream into the wind.
I do not give the slightest shit about artisanal blame shifting.
Zelenski could not politically afford to recognize Donbass, some theorized Russia would in fact hope for riots bad enough to justify own intervention on top of that.
What Putin wanted was giving Donbass a sort of first of equals autonomy, including letting the separatists keep arms and standing force as the local militia/law enforcement, while also giving them veto rights over major policy decisions of Ukraine and, considering the whole militia thing also being the law enforcement, open season for all sorts of criminal fuckery for local powermongers and their allies for fun and profit.
Or in practical terms, he wanted Ukraine to have 2 governments, the relationship between which to be moderated by him as a not so neutral judge, not something any reasonable country would agree to short of capitulation in a war.
As in, effectively, Putin always wanted to control Ukraine. How and by how many degrees of separation, that's details he was willing to negotiate, but the general point he is quite insistent on.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Neither was I, however my view is that Zelenski's imbecilic behavior and the continuing shelling of the Donbass after its recognition brought this about.
Two points here:
1. Can we please make a distinction between the Soviets and the Russians?
One was a quasi-religious leftist sect of human garbage, the other is an entho-linguistic national group.
2. At the time of the Polish-Soviet war iirc the Russian civil war was still raging/had just ended.
Polish/Russian animosity runs deeper than that, and it is outside the scope of the thread to debate it, both sides are to blame.
As I said, I dislike Marduk's approach to this particular question and I do not think he is objective or arguing in good faith.
However to paraphrase the Three Musketeers, or was in X years later, I "can respect the Uniform, but still despise the man within it."
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
The Minsk process to which Ukraine agreed specified that Donbass would be given extra autonomy.
Chiron
Well-known member
Russian Doctrine is for VDV to seize critical terrain ahead of the main thrust. They did exactly that and it drew Ukrainian Forces out of the Capital and into the open to retake it. It was in effect a double feint. If the Ukrainians didn't contest it, the VDV would have been reinforced and expanded the perimeter. If they did, they would hunker down and be an anvil to the Tank Divisions' hammer. Either way it would serve the Russian needs.
The Iraqi Military was spread all over the place with substantial parts of it facing the Kurds and largely uncoordinated. The Iraqi Airforce also just buried themselves in sand and cried. The US was capable of easily pocketing the scattered Iraqi Army, but got bogged down in needless fights for 3 weeks.
No it does not. They are directly comparable and Russia is showing a far more militarily efficient operation with much more efficient use of resources.
The results are the results.
And? The Minsk process obviously failed, and on top of that was negotiated under duress, which was, i remind you, also provided by Russian intervention in the conflict, just slightly more covert than this time.
Then it failed, because the specifics of interpretation were de facto left to Russia and its pet warlords, who obviously favored themselves in that. Ukraine didn't agree with these interpretations, so the process was stuck. Or in other words, capitulation with extra steps.
Now Russians have simply dropped the camouflage and cut out most of the extra steps they are expecting.
Yet the separatists didn't stop shelling Ukraine either.
Also, if you want to blame the artillery skirmishes not stopping after recognition, why the hell did the separatists start major preparations like evacuating people and draft before it happened?
That's quite a rich accusation coming from you.
Yes, i know. Unfortunately the airfield in question is not on the other side of the direction Russians will advance from anyway.
And Ukrainian military isn't spread all over the place?
Not only it is, it is forced to stay that way due to not being attacked from just 1 small area.
Also Russia's separatists are far more of a fighting force than the Kurds were.
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Why not?
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
The Minsk process is something all sides agreed to, the Ukrainians never implemented it, they just let more "militias" aka nazis/ultranationalists do whatever the hell they pleased, and kept shelling Donbass for years.
The escalation process that led us here is something I have stated my views on over and over, and you do not wish to take what I have written into account, over and over.
If you want my rebuttal go read our oh, 9001 previous posts on the matter.
There is no sense for them to drag their feet for so long and waste time with legal recognition of Donbass, and the Minsk accords, and a dozen other attempts to get Ukraine to act reasonably, thus giving them and their western backers time to organize and showing their hand.
Zelenski done fucked up, Zelenski let his extremist morons and string-pullers walk all over him, Zelenski forgot he is not playing a preseident on TV but actually is one, and that there is not 'cut' and no reshoots.
Chiron
Well-known member
1. That was the point. The Ukrainians had to respond to the Airport's Seizure and once the TDs got there, the engineers started repairing the runway while helicopters can use it right away. Ukrainian Commandos thus got pulled into an open field battle and wasted when they would have been better used in Kyiv where they have 4 doors and more whores to bring to the table.
2. Yes and so was the Iraqi Army and the US had more firepower and Troop density than the Russians do in this operation. Yet the Iraqi Army bogged the US down for 3 weeks. The Ukrainians are close to cracking now by contrast against a foe that isn't carpet bombing them flat with airpower and showering them in unrelenting grid fire artillery barrages like the Iraqis faced.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Might be off subject but Dark Empire sucked, China seems more like the Vong if you ask me.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Vong sucked too, fucking masochistic Zerg/Taliban hybrid wannabes, and clonepatine had world devastators and a shitton of ssds, including the Eclipse.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
The only thing disgusting and shameful here is all your mental gymnastics.
Russia demanded the Minsk process be adhered to.
Russia spent over 8 years not kicking the Ukrainains' ass despite being antagonized constantly.
Russia recognized the Donbass and stated point-blank that they will send military aid and peace keepers if such are requested from the leaders of those two republics.
Why do that if their plan was to invade and take over half of Ukraine.
Zelenski just kept pouring oil on the fire with his theatrics, now he is going to get his head bitten off.
If Hitler had asked for peace in 1941, would anyone have given it to him?
No, this escalated, the Ukrainans started it, the Russians are finishing it, and finishing off the Ukrainians.
Honestly, the entire approach of the west and Ukraine where Russia was concerned was "stop hurting yourself." aka the standard SJW crybully tactic.
Well, there ain't no teacher or social media truth commission for the whiny beta cucks to turn to now!
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