Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

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NCR sure does love to hand their enemies the initiative if that's their fallback plan should the attack on Chicago fail. United States should have methods to just go around those big expensive fortifications. Guess we'll see what the equivalent of Ardennes is.
 
ForeverShogo said:
NCR sure does love to hand their enemies the initiative if that's their fallback plan should the attack on Chicago fail. United States should have methods to just go around those big expensive fortifications. Guess we'll see what the equivalent of Ardennes is.
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If NCR citizens see and realise that the Enclave isn’t the monster they keep being told and saying(it still)is

I can see people not wanting to live on rations and 24/7 military martial law and on constant siege and deciding to surrender ASAP
 
Though, I recall in Tales from New America, one NCR Soldier who decided that even if the Enclave isn’t the monster from their history and propoganda, she would still fight it because it will be trying to annex NCR territory anyway
 
ForeverShogo said:
United States should have methods to just go around those big expensive fortifications.
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So far we have seen orbital bombardment satellites, ship based rail-guns, shoulder fired tactical nukes, and their Constantine super heavy tanks. Those massive fusion and plasma cannons could probably melt through a large hill pretty quick all by themselves.
 
SuperHeavy said:
Those massive fusion and plasma cannons could probably melt through a large hill pretty quick all by themselves.
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Counterpoint. I for one choose to believe that Big Mountain has leased its technology for the defense of the NCR. The Courier managed to convince them to help not through rational arguments, but by pointing out that if the Federal Government returned they may send OSHA inspectors, or even an ethics committee. Whether it was true or not didn't matter, the very idea sent the Think Tank into a frothing rage.
 
Reminding the Think Tank of America is actually a bad idea. Unless you want them to turn on the NCR.

The Think Tank - the real Think Tank - still cares about the United States. It's basically the only reason Ulysses survived his encounter with them. They were about to lobotomize him and, in sheer desperation, he asked them, "Who are you, that do not know your history?"

That question was enough to temporarily break the mind whammy Mobius put onto them, and allowed him to briefly talk to the real Think Tank.

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When all seemed lost, thought it was the end - my anger gave me strength to ask them my last question. 'Who are you, that do not know your history?' and they awoke ... for a short time. The flag you wear, they said. We remember, America. It wasn't just a flag to them ... it was a place, an idea they had cared for. Once. They told me what it was like to grow in that world ... all they had done to lift it up ... protect it. They ... didn't know it was gone, that ... yet they had cared once. Before forgetting their history.

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They're only an NCR asset so long as they remain ignorant. Should they become aware of what's really going on . . .

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Oh, and yeah, that earlier stuff was a good point. Would be hilarious if after all the NCR has invested in their defense lines, the Enclave just has the sheer firepower to melt through those defenses - figuratively and literally.

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And I just realized . . . The NCR is bringing in Communist Chinese forces as allies. Just imagine that expeditionary force deploying only to run into like 100 Liberty Prime Mk-Vs shouting in chorus.

"We will not fear the Red Menace. "
 
@ForeverShogo
I wonder how they would feel about the NCR repeatedly going on and on about how the Enclave already “lost their claim” when they did all that stuff with the original NCR and so many other wastelanders

If the Think Tank asks/demands proof.....the NCR only has old stories passed from a place that was blown up by the guy who made said storie

Also, these guys I think are responsible for the explosion collars and experimented on Chinese, I think they would prefer the lesser evil of the Enclave whilst still being Patriots

“My Country, Right or Wrong and in this case its RIGHT!!!”

And also being pissed and annoyed by constantly trying to make out the Enclave to be Nazi’s and stuff.....I don’t think Pre-War America had many Liberals or Democrats left
 
You know as the years keep rolling on I wonder how well the robobrains of old are holding up, especially with the Think Tank already so degraded. At this point they must be operating far past the point General Atomics R&D could have planned for. Even with how well Fallout technology holds up any surviving units could see their biological systems succumbing to time.
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
And also being pissed and annoyed by constantly trying to make out the Enclave to be Nazi’s and stuff.....I don’t think Pre-War America had many Liberals or Democrats left
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Well pre-War America was pretty authoritarian, though in their defence they had been fighting a world war for ten or so years by the time the bombs fell.

ForeverShogo said:
Reminding the Think Tank of America is actually a bad idea. Unless you want them to turn on the NCR.

The Think Tank - the real Think Tank - still cares about the United States. It's basically the only reason Ulysses survived his encounter with them. They were about to lobotomize him and, in sheer desperation, he asked them, "Who are you, that do not know your history?"

That question was enough to temporarily break the mind whammy Mobius put onto them, and allowed him to briefly talk to the real Think Tank.
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Heh. There's other information the E-USA has access to that could break the mind-whammy permanently. Not gonna tell, though.

They're only an NCR asset so long as they remain ignorant. Should they become aware of what's really going on . . .
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Yeah. If they find out they've been lied to, that they're actually supporting rebels against the legitimate government - rebels who've allied themselves with Chinese communists, no less ... hehehehe.



SuperHeavy said:
You know as the years keep rolling on I wonder how well the robobrains of old are holding up, especially with the Think Tank already so degraded. At this point they must be operating far past the point General Atomics R&D could have planned for. Even with how well Fallout technology holds up any surviving units could see their biological systems succumbing to time.
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The Think Tank's "degradation" is a result of:

A: Having had their cybernetic components messed with
B: Being hopped up on various drugs all the time
C: Missing various hormone glands

ForeverShogo said:
Maybe even with examples they can't figure out how it works. Or reproduce the devices on a large enough scale to be anything more than fancy vending machines.
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Power supply is the big problem. Even with fusion. It just can't be scaled up to an industrial level.
 
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Navarro said:
Well pre-War America was pretty authoritarian, though in their defence they had been fighting a world war for ten or so years by the time the bombs fell.
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Eh, tell that to guys on SB likely to go on about how it was Capitalism and being Right Wing’s fault

I think they tend to sort of ignore how in the Cold War and fictional versions, there were ACTUAL problems to do with Communist enemies

Unlike canon, I don’t think Danse is blaming the corporations and the tech they made and sold
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
Eh, tell that to guys on SB likely to go on about how it was Capitalism and being Right Wing’s fault
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Yeah, the attitude that the real cause of the apocalypse was the USA not rolling over to Communist China.

Danse's argument in FO4 is just completely nonsensical on its face and should simply be considered BOS propaganda with no basis in fact. Personally IMO I view the Enclave as more potentially redeemable than the BOS - the Enclave at least claims to hold on to the legacy of the Founding Fathers, where BOS ideology is just flat-out elitist from top to bottom.
 
Navarro said:
Yeah, the attitude that the real problem was the USA not rolling over to Communist China.
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And that the USA was actively fighting China, and specifically Communism, in and out of its borders

It’s as if they think the USA were the only aggressors in the conflict
 
Navarro said:
Communist China started the war then escalated it to nuclear levels. Frankly the blame for everything bad that happened in the Fallout universe falls completely on them.
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I am not one to defend China, but the whole global situation was basically doomed. China had two choices once the USA backed out of the oil trade globally, do nothing and die or try and take Alaska to secure oil til fusion could be secured.
 
Navarro said:
Yeah, the attitude that the real cause of the apocalypse was the USA not rolling over to Communist China.

Danse's argument in FO4 is just completely nonsensical on its face and should simply be considered BOS propaganda with no basis in fact. Personally IMO I view the Enclave as more potentially redeemable than the BOS - the Enclave at least claims to hold on to the legacy of the Founding Fathers, where BOS ideology is just flat-out elitist from top to bottom.
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TBF to Danse, he would be vulnerable AF to propaganda until fed the right codewords/symbols what with being a synth and all. Heck, I'm of the theory that in canon Maxson was suspicious of Danse's Stepford character even before the Institutes info confirms it given how hard line he is in killing Danse (and only being persuaded to just let him live when facing S.P.E.C.I.A.L. persuasion).

I'd also argue the BoS aren't elitists so much as most of their chapters being as tribally insular and xenophobic as any other faction in the wasteland. They largely don't want to rule over or have anything to do with the wider populations of the wasteland and most probably mightily resent the NCR / E-USA forcing them out of their 'I can't believe it's not Vault Tec!' bunkers to 'claim' the Midwest as their 'territory' lest those factions unite the wastelanders around them and then present them with the same fait accomplis they've suffered in the West + East in this timeline.

Also, RIP the NCR's dream of challenging the E-USA's naval supremacy in the Gulf of Mexico.
 
lloyd007 said:
Also, RIP the NCR's dream of challenging the E-USA's naval supremacy in the Gulf of Mexico.
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Had the troops deployed to Corpus Christi been at Houston it would have been a real slog. As it was the attack only succeeded so flawlessly because of the wave of surprise guerrilla attacks carried out by the Texan insurgency and the LSR army's general apathy towards the situation, and the failure to properly secure the airport. Had any of these factors been absent the NCR position would have been strong enough to hold out till reinforcements arrived.

TBF to Danse, he would be vulnerable AF to propaganda until fed the right codewords/symbols what with being a synth and all. Heck, I'm of the theory that in canon Maxson was suspicious of Danse's Stepford character even before the Institutes info confirms it given how hard line he is in killing Danse (and only being persuaded to just let him live when facing S.P.E.C.I.A.L. persuasion).
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Danse seems like the type to be a fanatic of the first ideology presented to him, yes.

I'd also argue the BoS aren't elitists so much as most of their chapters being as tribally insular and xenophobic as any other faction in the wasteland. They largely don't want to rule over or have anything to do with the wider populations of the wasteland and most probably mightily resent the NCR / E-USA forcing them out of their 'I can't believe it's not Vault Tec!' bunkers to 'claim' the Midwest as their 'territory' lest those factions unite the wastelanders around them and then present them with the same fait accomplis they've suffered in the West + East in this timeline.
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Most "bunker people" groups are highly xenophobic - see Vault City, the Boomers, Vault 101, the Institute - but I would call the BOS elitist as their ideology possesses the factor that they are the only group fit to wield advanced technology, and they have a duty to control its use (usually by killing other highly-advanced groups and taking their stuff). They dislike "primitive wastelanders" less than they dislike other advanced groups - the former brings contempt, the latter outright hatred.
 
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Between Enclave and NCR occupation, which has better treatment of locals? Like NOT mistreating them or having their way with the women and trying to force the local bar to give them drinks for free amongst other things

I’m thinking Enclave, if only because they have better and more supplies due to advanced technology and resources available and their hopes to win hearts and minds
 
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