DocSolarisReich
Esoteric Spaceman
What other political views? That people who resist arrest should be coerced?
United States Minnesota; Man, George Floyd, dies during arrest, cause being a cop kneeling on his neck
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
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What other political views? That people who resist arrest should be coerced?
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Police have to use force to arrest people who resist. If they can’t do that, then we might as well not have laws or police because if all you have to do is resist and say you can’t breathe, then the police have to let you go, then literally everyone will do that. Well, I guess this only applies if you’re black. That is essentially the policy that the left wants, you’re not allowed to arrest black people.
Floyd died of an overdose, Floyd was saying he couldn’t breath and was acting erratically even before he got out of the car or police put hands on him. By the time a knee was put on his neck, he had been resisting arrest for 10 minutes and had shown himself to be in an altered state of mind. He had over three times the lethal level of fentanyl in his system, he may well have died had he not even seen the cops that day. The force used against him was likely justified and likely wouldn’t have had any major impact on a healthy individual without drugs in his system.
Maybe Chauvin mishandled things or could have done a better job, but it’s unlikely that he broke the law and the idea that he murdered George Floyd is absurd. There is no blind justice in this case, if George Floyd had been white nobody would have cared and Chauvin would still be on the police force and this incident would be a minor note in his file somewhere.
Floyd died of an overdose, Floyd was saying he couldn’t breath and was acting erratically even before he got out of the car or police put hands on him. By the time a knee was put on his neck, he had been resisting arrest for 10 minutes and had shown himself to be in an altered state of mind. He had over three times the lethal level of fentanyl in his system, he may well have died had he not even seen the cops that day. The force used against him was likely justified and likely wouldn’t have had any major impact on a healthy individual without drugs in his system.
Maybe Chauvin mishandled things or could have done a better job, but it’s unlikely that he broke the law and the idea that he murdered George Floyd is absurd. There is no blind justice in this case, if George Floyd had been white nobody would have cared and Chauvin would still be on the police force and this incident would be a minor note in his file somewhere.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
No, anyone could not see that with their own eyes. It is possible that the hold was misapplied, but unless you are an expert in an appropriate field, you probably can't distinguish between 'medically safe hold' and 'dangerous hold that can suffocate.'
I don't claim to be an expert who can tell that at a glance. I know it definitely looked bad, but that doesn't mean 'anyone could see that with their own eyes.'
Are you a medical or nonlethal takedown expert of some sort?
Look people, going round and round about whether the fentynal or the knee on the neck killed Floyd is going to do no one any good.
Personally I have no idea which actually was the reason he died, and things have only gotten more murky as time has gone by.
This trial will see the facts decided on an official level, or at least a 'formal' level.
Personally I have no idea which actually was the reason he died, and things have only gotten more murky as time has gone by.
This trial will see the facts decided on an official level, or at least a 'formal' level.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Yeah, I hope that the trial does reveal the facts and that justice is done. Well, to what ever degree that’s even possible at this point.
I honestly don’t trust the system enough though. I think it’s possible that evidence will show that Chauvin is innocent and he’ll be convicted anyway because of pressure put on the judge and jury. I hope that isn’t true, but I fear it is. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Chauvin is prosecuted federally if he is acquired in this trial.
I completely understand your concerns here.
However they assume that Chauvin is innocent as a base condition.
I do not think that is a smart assumption to make.
I think it's possible that both Chauvin and the fentynal in his system are equally responsible for Floyd's death.
I do not think it was a murder, but from everything I've seen and heard, manslaughter would probably not be a stretch, unless it can be shown that Floyd's death was solely the result of the fentynal in his system.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Assuming Chauvin’s innocence as the base condition that is what the criminal justice system is required to do. Innocent until proven guilty. But we have had nearly a year long campaign by some of our nation’s most powerful people and institutions to declare Chauvin (and not only him but whites and police in general) guilty without regard for truth, evidence, or due process. We have moved far beyond the guilt or innocence of one man here.
StormEagle
Well-known member
Ultimately, this is nothing more than a show trial. Chauvin will be found guilty, no matter what evidence is presented, merely for the fact the people on the jury probably don’t want their towns to get burnt to the ground by rampaging idiots.
Add to this, you’ve basically had every person of power and influence declaring Chauvin guilty, and his fate has already been decided.
This “trial” will be a complete farce and an affront to justice.
Add to this, you’ve basically had every person of power and influence declaring Chauvin guilty, and his fate has already been decided.
This “trial” will be a complete farce and an affront to justice.
DocSolarisReich
Esoteric Spaceman
They might bungle the trial on purpose if they decide they want the riots.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
I don’t think that they will bungle the trial on purpose, but the mainstream media and all of the left wing activists and politicians will do what ever they can to incite more rioting and violence if he’s found not guilty.
Innocent till proven guilty is important, on official levels.
However, till it is proven that it was solely the fentynal that killed Floyd, we have every reason to look at Chauvin as having caused, in whole or in part, Floyd's death.
And I am not going to let the media shitstorm around this and the riots afterwards skew my perspective of the event itself.
Maybe it will come out it was solely the fentynal that caused Floyd's death, but I am not betting on it.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
You are are putting the burden of proof on the defendant. You are demanding that it’s proven that the fentanyl solely caused George Floyd’s death. How exactly can that be proven? It is the responsibility of the prosecution to prove that Chauvin’s actions caused George Floyd’s death, a virtual impossibility considering the lethal levels of fentanyl in Floyd’s system. The prosecution must not only prove that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death, but that Chauvin’s actions were unjustified and that they were taken with the intent to kill Floyd (murder) or with wanton disregard (manslaughter) for Floyd’s life.
Having taken training in this sorta thing....
Without seeing the autopsy, there is no real way to know if he applied it wrongly or not.
Hell, I have been in a similar situation, tap out only. I had to tap put as O couldn't move, but was still able to breathe.
He was also not able to breath once he got out of the car, he wanted to lay down to feel better, and he was starting to resist, and Floyd was bigger then Chauvin, so neck is easiest way to keep tjem from fighting.
Or, can you hold someone bigger and stronger then you with a knee to the shoulders even when handcuffed?
Also, I actually doubt he will be found guilty of any charges. It seems the Judge is more neutral on this case then people think, and is going to try and be as fair as possible
In normal cases, yes, but cops are put to a different standard of conduct for a reason. I have come to the defense of other cops before when they were being wrongly hounded; I don't think this case is one of those.
Floyd is dead and died while Chauvin was kneeling on what looked like his neck, while saying he couldn't breath repeatedly. Chauvin never seemed to pay attention to what Floyd was saying once he had him on the ground, and it's far easier to expell air from the lungs than it is to pull air in when a weight is on top of your neck.
I think they won't get murder, because I don't think there was intent at all.
Wanton disregard...I think they might make that stick, depending on what the autopsy shows. Because if it wasn't solely fentynal that killed Floyd, then Chauvin bears some blame and guilt for his actions (or lack of action when he ignored Floyd's pleas while on the ground).
The only way Chauvin is at all innocent is if the fentynal in Floyd's system had rendered him a mobile corpse before Chauvin got to him, and I haven't seen convincing evidence to support this. If there is any, it will end up in the trial, and if it's solid, Chauvin will walk out a deservedly free man.
But that is a fringe possibility, and why I think the most likely outcome will be guilty on manslaughter, with the murder charges dismissed.
The autopsy not done by the fraud said Fentynal and various other drugs were the cause, with minor bruising around his neck from the kneeling iirc.
What 'fraud' autopsy?
Did the state ME make that determination about the drugs, or a different ME?
The Original one yes.
The fraud one that was hired by the family to give them the autopsy they want. Who also handled the OJ Simpson ones.
The same man who said OJ didn't do it...
So the STATE ME ruled it was drugs...but the family one, who worked on the OJ case, didn't.
Which results have been accepted into evidence by the court?
State ME. Private one was disqualified, and ruled out as Bias and false