United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

Zachowon

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Yeah, not really buying it because the same issues were present in the 2000s and the information flowed a lot more freely before Xi Jinping took over; people forget how open China was under guys like Hu Jintao. The simple fact of the matter is the Elites don't care about China at best now or are actively opposed to it because of the reasons others have cited given the growing power of China.

Case in point: China Labor Costs back in 2016 reached parity with American rates. That they are making a lot of money off China just simply doesn't cut it as an excuse.



Such as?



Shades of Neocons in 2003.
What do you mean shades of Neocons in 2003? I literally work in MI, I have to see what kind of threats our enemies are, and China is the big 1 and or 2, depedning on who you ask
China isn't a meaningful threat to the American world order. It has no military power projection past its borders, and is economically dependent upon US guarantees of free trade. It is entirely possible (though not necessarily likely) that China will pick a fight with a bordering nation, and an alliance of nations that are fed up with China's shit will fight back and defeat it without even needing US support. If India, Vietnam, Japan, the Philipines and the key Oceania nations all allied together, China would be in deep shit. US support would just guarantee a Chinese loss.

What poses a threat to the American world order, is our own political and moral corruption, and China is very willing to take advantage of that for our own gain.

Edit: It is possible for China to grow into a threat in the future, but currently it's a regional superpower, not a world superpower.
This is untrue. They have the numbers, and more then enough advanced weapons, though in small numbers, to pose a thread.
Compared to annby other enemy of the US, China is the most advanced and biggest threat, especially when it comes to spcial assets.
Here is a good article about what a war with China, defending Taiwan would look like. What war with China could look like
Goes into detail and would surpriseyou how not prepared for a force on force the US is, and why we are switching to it.
 

Abhorsen

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First, aren't you a Libertarian?
Exactly, I believe in freedom, not in advocating evil. So I obviously object to helping evil governments, even when there's profit to be made.

I don't think anybody can credibly claim Adam Silver or Bob Chapek as major, influential political players in the U.S. to be honest, to say the least. For the vast majority of our political elites, regular business has been their source of income from China; that's declined, largely due to China growing into its own and associated political changes. As others have noted now, China poses a credible challenge to the Liberal American world order which, combined with the closure of money making for most, is the main reason the Anti-China sentiment has become politically acceptable. For those old enough to remember, it's a very, very clear throwback to the way Islam was talked about back in the 2000s.
No, it's not a throwback to dislike of Islam, it's a throwback to dislike of Al-Qaeda and other evil. Not all the hate then was misplaced, and it's not now either.

Second, I don't care about them being big political players, they are much more powerful. They are big cultural powers in the US, which is much scarier.

Yeah, I'm not really understanding your concern on said issues?
I think they are some of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard of (I'm selling it a bit strong here, but that's because the depth of stupidity, not from any merit to these ideas). The $2000 checks are the least stupid, just drowning America more in debt. If money must be handed out, do it to people who actually need it, not to everyone.

The student debt relief is just hilarious, as somehow they've managed to sell to the public that they're helping the poor when they give free money to college graduates who in the future are looking to make six figures.

The $15 dollar minimum wage is a great way to put small businesses out of business as well, especially when they are struggling with the pandemic. But also any minimum wage is a bad idea that harms the poor. For example, even a meta study done by a minimum wage proponent found that 80% of min wage studies found an employment loss. And the study finds that this is compounded when looking at low wage jobs and low education workers. And most min wage hikes are nowhere as severe as this hike.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
What do you mean shades of Neocons in 2003? I literally work in MI, I have to see what kind of threats our enemies are, and China is the big 1 and or 2, depedning on who you ask

This is untrue. They have the numbers, and more then enough advanced weapons, though in small numbers, to pose a thread.
Compared to annby other enemy of the US, China is the most advanced and biggest threat, especially when it comes to spcial assets.
Here is a good article about what a war with China, defending Taiwan would look like. What war with China could look like
Goes into detail and would surpriseyou how not prepared for a force on force the US is, and why we are switching to it.

China is a regional threat to the USA. It has no ability to destroy the American World Order. If things go wildly their way, they could force the US out of East Asia and the South China Sea, and...

That's about it. They're not going to be able to project military power to Africa, Europe, South America, or really even Australia. If they want to try to pick a fight with India or the Stans, they're welcome to bleeding themselves white to do so.

Now, down the road, if they manage to avoid imploding, they could potentially do quite a bit more, but that'd take decades.
 

Zachowon

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China is a regional threat to the USA. It has no ability to destroy the American World Order. If things go wildly their way, they could force the US out of East Asia and the South China Sea, and...

That's about it. They're not going to be able to project military power to Africa, Europe, South America, or really even Australia. If they want to try to pick a fight with India or the Stans, they're welcome to bleeding themselves white to do so.

Now, down the road, if they manage to avoid imploding, they could potentially do quite a bit more, but that'd take decades.
You would be surprised man.
They basically can pushus out of East Asia, which is a major thing, with Guam being a territory, and our allies down south of there, like Australia and NZ. They can pose a threat there as well, should they kick us out.
They are a lot more powerful then you think.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
You would be surprised man.
They basically can pushus out of East Asia, which is a major thing, with Guam being a territory, and our allies down south of there, like Australia and NZ. They can pose a threat there as well, should they kick us out.
They are a lot more powerful then you think.
I've started reading the article you linked, and its fantastical claptrap. Sure, the Chinese Navy has 'more ships' than the US Navy, if you count all 35 of their landing craft, 68 Corvettes (all 1500 tons or less), the 9 'missile boats' that are 500 tons or less, and the 83 missile boats that are all of 220 tons each.

"Achieve a world-class Navy by the middle of the century."

Yes, in thirty years they'll be capable of challenging the USN past the First Island Chain, if things continue in the current pattern.

On the whole, the article focuses a lot on the potential abilities of China. It doesn't mention that enormous amounts of their equipment and doctrine are completely untested in actual battle, or that their officer corps is more politically than militarily trained.

China's big, and they're capable of dishing out a fair amount of hurt. Nothing in the article I've seen so far mentions how much others are capable of hurting them back.

...Gasp. A conflict might have casualties.

Who on earth would have thought military conflict would have casualties!

"How such a conflict would unfold in the initial hours, days and weeks would depend on how it starts, Herzinger said. "

Is this stuff for real? Is this supposed to be written for people who have no familiarity with warfare or conflict at all?

...Okay, I'm done with this article. It's basically a pack of 'captain obvious' stuff and weird contortions. The only actual hard numbers in it has been the ridiculous fleet number comparison at the start of the article, which was incredibly deceptive.

Yes, China has enough of a military to be dangerous. Yes, they can dish out a lot of hurt. If the US Military lets itself be caught sleeping, they might even win in the first round of regional conflict, but that just highlights the two issues:

1. The Chinese winning is dependent on them showing very high levels of competence, and the US screwing up by the numbers.
2. Even if they win the first round, then they're going to have to deal with the next 3-5 Carrier fleets that come around to hit back, and they'll have to do it while having suffered losses they can't replace in a relevant time-frame.

They do have a couple straight-up advantages, like shorter logistical chains and more developed cruise missile capability, but they also have a very large stack of disadvantages, such as everything they fly except the J-20 and its immediate predecessor being obsolete crap, and having literally zero friends in the area to support them if they pick a fight.
 

Zachowon

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I've started reading the article you linked, and its fantastical claptrap. Sure, the Chinese Navy has 'more ships' than the US Navy, if you count all 35 of their landing craft, 68 Corvettes (all 1500 tons or less), the 9 'missile boats' that are 500 tons or less, and the 83 missile boats that are all of 220 tons each.

"Achieve a world-class Navy by the middle of the century."

Yes, in thirty years they'll be capable of challenging the USN past the First Island Chain, if things continue in the current pattern.

On the whole, the article focuses a lot on the potential abilities of China. It doesn't mention that enormous amounts of their equipment and doctrine are completely untested in actual battle, or that their officer corps is more politically than militarily trained.

China's big, and they're capable of dishing out a fair amount of hurt. Nothing in the article I've seen so far mentions how much others are capable of hurting them back.

...Gasp. A conflict might have casualties.

Who on earth would have thought military conflict would have casualties!

"How such a conflict would unfold in the initial hours, days and weeks would depend on how it starts, Herzinger said. "

Is this stuff for real? Is this supposed to be written for people who have no familiarity with warfare or conflict at all?

...Okay, I'm done with this article. It's basically a pack of 'captain obvious' stuff and weird contortions. The only actual hard numbers in it has been the ridiculous fleet number comparison at the start of the article, which was incredibly deceptive.

Yes, China has enough of a military to be dangerous. Yes, they can dish out a lot of hurt. If the US Military lets itself be caught sleeping, they might even win in the first round of regional conflict, but that just highlights the two issues:

1. The Chinese winning is dependent on them showing very high levels of competence, and the US screwing up by the numbers.
2. Even if they win the first round, then they're going to have to deal with the next 3-5 Carrier fleets that come around to hit back, and they'll have to do it while having suffered losses they can't replace in a relevant time-frame.

They do have a couple straight-up advantages, like shorter logistical chains and more developed cruise missile capability, but they also have a very large stack of disadvantages, such as everything they fly except the J-20 and its immediate predecessor being obsolete crap, and having literally zero friends in the area to support them if they pick a fight.
They have numbers, and they dint need the J20 when they have other methods to take out aircraft.

It was the best unclassified article I could find.
The stuff I see shows just how competent they actually are when it comes to tech and abilities.
They also have us beat in some areas as well. Besides numbers
 

Terthna

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The student debt relief is just hilarious, as somehow they've managed to sell to the public that they're helping the poor when they give free money to college graduates who in the future are looking to make six figures.
Actually, many of them would be lucky to land a job flipping burgers for the rest of their lives. Hell, I couldn't even manage that much, even though my degree was in something actually useful (Electronics and Computer Technology), and had to leverage my autism to get disability forgiveness on my student loan debt.
 

Abhorsen

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Actually, many of them would be lucky to land a job flipping burgers for the rest of their lives. Hell, I couldn't even manage that much, even though my degree was in something actually useful (Electronics and Computer Technology), and had to leverage my autism to get disability forgiveness on my student loan debt.
That's not true (or at least it wasn't until the Pandemic). The economy was very good. The issue was that many were trying to get jobs in academia and their degrees were useless elsewhere. If we look at the unemployment rate of college graduates, it's lower than it is for non graduates, and they earn more as well. On top of this, the average college graduate comes from a wealthier than they are background,

On top of that, it's morally wrong for them to get relief. They signed up for the loan. They decided to take a useless degree if they did, and they decided not to use any number of valuable programs the US has to deal with the debt, including the GI bill ahead of time, or the Teach for America program. I have little sympathy for the average college debt holder. Get a job. I got one in the middle of the pandemic, they can too.
 

Zachowon

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Again, if they are fit and somewhat stable mind, if they want loan forgiveness, have them join the military
 

Terthna

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That's not true (or at least it wasn't until the Pandemic). The economy was very good. The issue was that many were trying to get jobs in academia and their degrees were useless elsewhere. If we look at the unemployment rate of college graduates, it's lower than it is for non graduates, and they earn more as well. On top of this, the average college graduate comes from a wealthier than they are background,

On top of that, it's morally wrong for them to get relief. They signed up for the loan. They decided to take a useless degree if they did, and they decided not to use any number of valuable programs the US has to deal with the debt, including the GI bill ahead of time, or the Teach for America program. I have little sympathy for the average college debt holder. Get a job. I got one in the middle of the pandemic, they can too.
I tried for years to get a job; filled out hundreds of applications for everything from jobs in my field, to local retail and fast food positions. Trust me; it's not always as easy as all that, even when you do everything you're supposed to.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
They have numbers, and they dint need the J20 when they have other methods to take out aircraft.

It was the best unclassified article I could find.
The stuff I see shows just how competent they actually are when it comes to tech and abilities.
They also have us beat in some areas as well. Besides numbers

Yes, they have methods, but so does everybody else. You know they still use hand-operated flak weapons in some of their units, right?

I'm not saying that they're harmless. I am saying that they aren't on the US's level at this point. Capable of hurting us, but not an equal.

Again, if they are fit and somewhat stable mind, if they want loan forgiveness, have them join the military

I agree with you on this.
 

Abhorsen

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I tried for years to get a job; filled out hundreds of applications for everything from jobs in my field, to local retail and fast food positions. Trust me; it's not always as easy as all that, even when you do everything you're supposed to.
That's, sorry to say, anecdotal evidence. In contrast, the majority of evidence we have shows that unemployment is lower or college graduates and they earn more, especially a few years out from college. What a loan forgiveness would be would be a wealth transfer to one of the wealthier cohorts in America. It's a horrible idea.
 

Zachowon

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Yes, they have methods, but so does everybody else. You know they still use hand-operated flak weapons in some of their units, right?

I'm not saying that they're harmless. I am saying that they aren't on the US's level at this point. Capable of hurting us, but not an equal.



I agree with you on this.
And? Look, I am going to have to drop the argument that they arnt a major threat to our world power, because I am not able to back up my arguments with unclassified information.
Also, yes I do know they use hand cranked still. They are the closest to an Equal we have btw.

If they want student loan forgiveness. Gotta earn it
 

strunkenwhite

Well-known member
China's absolutely a huge threat as far as land warfare and the part of the ocean within missile spam range; that's different from saying they are anywhere close to taking on the USN for blue water dominance of the Eastern Pacific and directly threatening ANZAC.
 

Terthna

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That's, sorry to say, anecdotal evidence. In contrast, the majority of evidence we have shows that unemployment is lower or college graduates and they earn more, especially a few years out from college. What a loan forgiveness would be would be a wealth transfer to one of the wealthier cohorts in America. It's a horrible idea.
I'm not actually arguing for blanket loan forgiveness (personally, I think the way we should handle it is by abolishing charging interest on student loans, while forgiving only those loans for individuals who tried and failed to enter the workforce); I'm arguing against the idea that everyone who graduates from college goes on to make six figures.
 

Abhorsen

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I'm arguing against the idea that everyone who graduates from college goes on to make six figures.
I don't think I said everyone, but yes, six figures eventually is what a college degree will get you on average, with enough years of experience. For example, look at this graph, from the American Community Survey:
ca58bc8a42668c7c7f2f35da891a9728


Look at all of the lines going above the $100k value. It takes a while, but it does happen.
 

Terthna

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I don't think I said everyone, but yes, six figures eventually is what a college degree will get you on average, with enough years of experience. For example, look at this graph, from the American Community Survey:
ca58bc8a42668c7c7f2f35da891a9728


Look at all of the lines going above the $100k value. It takes a while, but it does happen.
The charts show men with at least a college degree employed for at least 40 weeks during the year.
I believe I found a flaw in your graph's methodology.
 

Megadeath

Well-known member
China has a lot in common with Russia military, with one major difference.

Both countries have large militaries that are mostly 2nd tier in terms of equipment, geared more towards local dominance than any kind of real force projection.

Both of them have a relatively small toy box of truly first tier stuff, some of it being best in field bleeding edge stuff, and they're both working to update and modernise the remaining bulk of their forces which is unavoidably a slow process.

What they do have makes them an almost peer level competitor when it comes to things like force projection in their immediate vicinity, or defending against a lunatic hypothetical invasion invasion by America. Neither comes close to threatening America directly though, or even being able to truly compete with them globally.

The significant difference is that China ultimately has the size and economy to back up their growth and development plans. In time, China ultimately does have the potential to match the USA, and if there isn't ultimately a change in how America does things China could even surpass them. Evil dictatorial authoritarian governments have a better demonstrated ability to accept/force higher defence spending at the cost of lower standards of living. That said, it is a long time off being any kind of immediate concern and even if China does ultimately match America or come close, they can't outmatch America and their allies locally and globally when they have essentially no support themselves.
 

Abhorsen

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I believe I found a flaw in your graph's methodology.
Yes, the graph is leaving out anomalous salaries from people fired/hired midway through the year. I mean, if I get a job worth $100k a year, but start in July or take a 6 month sabbatical, it doesn't make sense for me to be included as having a $50k salary.

So that's not a problem, that's basic data cleaning which shows that the person doing the graphs actually knew how to do their job.
 

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