Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Reader mode
Ackbar: "We won't last long against those Star Destroyers!"

*They do last long against those Star Destroyers and actually take all of them with (some of) us*

Like the only time in Disney canon I can recall a Star Destroyer rapidly devastating everything is the very end of the Battle of Scarif, and that was after two ISD's went down after not even kersploding a single corvette between them.

The efficacy of the Seventh Fleet displayed onscreen in Rebels seems comparable to that.

But yes I agree the use of plot armor for a gaggle of main characters is certainly unprecedented in Star Wars, whether by Zahn or others.
 
Husky_Khan said:
Ackbar: "We won't last long against those Star Destroyers!"

*They do last long against those Star Destroyers and actually take all of them with (some of) us*

Like the only time in Disney canon I can recall a Star Destroyer rapidly devastating everything is the very end of the Battle of Scarif, and that was after two ISD's went down after not even kersploding a single corvette between them.

The efficacy of the Seventh Fleet displayed onscreen in Rebels seems comparable to that.

But yes I agree the use of plot armor for a gaggle of main characters is certainly unprecedented in Star Wars, whether by Zahn or others.
Click to expand...

Attacking a fleet of Star Destroyers should be like running into a veritable thicket of green turbo laser fire as your ships melt into molten slag. Those two Imperial warships at Scariff, state of the art battleships, should have ripped the rebel force of corvettes, frigates and cruisers apart. Again, do the writers of Star Wars understand what those fuck huge guns are mounted on these things for?

God only knows the havoc a pair of 40k Imperial light cruisers would wreak on a Rebel force, because the Imperium seems to remember it has ranged weaponry.
 
In regards to Rebels in general... I get its a kids show. I literally stopped watching a few episodes into the first seaspn because it was too kiddy. (I also never really saw Clone Wars prior so was kinda unaware of the whole gets better as it goes on trope)

But as cartoons go I do feel Rebels was pretty good as it went on. There were narrative and plot points I didn't really care for but the way it developed the Ajsoka-Vader or the Obi Wan-Maul storylines or the stuff regarding the Mandalorians was good to great IMHO.

Granted most of the bad guys tended to be nobs and things were watered down for a cartoon but I do think Thrawn was given plenty of due credit in the series. I feel a lot of the criticism of his character is kinda nitpicky and have more to do that people may have never been pleased he was placed in a cartoon in the first place as a villain and loath him somehow being watered down or what have you.

But I feel I went into watching the series expecting that and getting pleasantly surprised by just how much consideration they actually gave his character. I think the show gave him every bit of consideration he earned from his novel portrayals.

In the original novels his main flaws was on a personal level of understanding his foes and here that wasn't even much of an issue beyond his (properly set up) contempt for the supernatural because of how BS he found it and of course it was due to that twice that his otherwise successful plans were foiled. (And in both the novels and here he was let down by lesser Imperials so that's neither here nor there even if the cartoon emphasizes it more)

But Yeah in short I feel people take unreasonable exception to the Rebels version of Thrawn when I don't think it denigrates his character at all. Like if the main issue is he's not a perfect steamroller but just a near perfect steamroller in a cartoon... I feel there's a perspective there being overlooked.

And yes Star Destroyers should clobber little Corvettes.
 
Husky_Khan said:
In the original novels his main flaws was on a personal level of understanding his foes and here that wasn't even much of an issue beyond his (properly set up) contempt for the supernatural because of how BS he found it and of course it was due to that twice that his otherwise successful plans were foiled. (And in both the novels and here he was let down by lesser Imperials so that's neither here nor there even if the cartoon emphasizes it more)

But Yeah in short I feel people take unreasonable exception to the Rebels version of Thrawn when I don't think it denigrates his character at all. Like if the main issue is he's not a perfect steamroller but just a near perfect steamroller in a cartoon... I feel there's a perspective there being overlooked.
Click to expand...

Therein lies the problem with the writing of the series itself. Thrawn is so big a threat that they have to contrive reasons for him not to win (like his subordinates being retarded), because he is written as an Admiral who commands large formations of ships for large fleet engagements. I don't think stamping out a minor insurgency suits him as a character, which is why these ridiculous contrivances keep appearing. A bit like how the Ghost crew still breathing with Vader in the vicinity is a bit surreal. Vader, Thrawn, Tarkin (let alone the Emperor) are meant for dealing with the real heavy hitters of the good guys, not veritable nobodies like the Ghost crew.

Rebels went astray in this regard, I feel, because threat escalation got entirely out of hand. In a way, they made the Empire too overpowering to be a real threat to our small band of heroes. They had to keep making them into a joke because, realistically, they'd win in episode one and that would be the end of it. A minor force, however, strictly there for peace keeping purposes on an industrial backwater, with local Imperial Navy elements amounting to a couple of Gozantis and an Arquitens, doesn't have the same sort of problem. In a weird way, you could actually make that more of a threat because it's less of a threat, so to speak.

Husky_Khan said:
And yes Star Destroyers should clobber little Corvettes.
Click to expand...

They should be able to reliably tango with the big MC80 Mon Calamari Star Cruisers (come on, those are battleships, let's not play word games), let alone diddy lil Corvettes.
 
Lord Invictus said:
Controversial idea, I like the idea of Han/Mara as a ship.
Click to expand...
Honestly could work. Imperial-pilot-turned-Smuggler paired-up with the Imperial-agent-turned-smuggler. One of them being quicker in their change in loyalty while the other struggled with an imprinted desire to kill the Imperial-pilot-turned-smuggler's friend...
Actually, I'm surprised I've not mulled that before. Because that would be an interesting wrinkle. Kind of like how Han had to grow into a Republic commander and a father, he instead in here has to grow into being the more morally-centered half of the pair :ROFLMAO:
 
In the EU, it is very rare to see Han and Leia not a ship.

I recall reading one Han/Tahiri story, two Han/Mara stories, and one Leia/Jag story. Opposed to Xizor, or Isolder-both technically canon and thus AUs.

prinCZess said:
Honestly could work. Imperial-pilot-turned-Smuggler paired-up with the Imperial-agent-turned-smuggler. One of them being quicker in their change in loyalty while the other struggled with an imprinted desire to kill the Imperial-pilot-turned-smuggler's friend...
Actually, I'm surprised I've not mulled that before. Because that would be an interesting wrinkle. Kind of like how Han had to grow into a Republic commander and a father, he instead in here has to grow into being the more morally-centered half of the pair :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be as relaxed as Luke and Mara, but a far more passionate and sultry relationship.
 
Urabrask Revealed said:
All these topics under the spoiler reinforce my opinion that the erasure of the EU was unnecessary to begin with. Disney is just chopping up the corpse for material to recycle.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why the erasure of the EU was the smartest thing Disney could possibly have done. It lets them salvage the *good* parts of the EU (mostly the Thrawn trilogy) while getting rid of the impossibly tangled hell that thirty years of letting EU authors write whatever contradictory shit they pleased had created as far as continuity, and dumping things like the NJO series that were a mistake from start to finish.
 
ShadowArxxy said:
That's exactly why the erasure of the EU was the smartest thing Disney could possibly have done. It lets them salvage the *good* parts of the EU (mostly the Thrawn trilogy) while getting rid of the impossibly tangled hell that thirty years of letting EU authors write whatever contradictory shit they pleased had created as far as continuity, and dumping things like the NJO series that were a mistake from start to finish.
Click to expand...

But they haven't been salvaging the best, they have just been doing the same thing except worse. We have an even higher proportion of stinkers without getting such gems as "moffship, mofference, dark greetings, lase eyes robo leia" and so on.
 
Urabrask Revealed said:
All these topics under the spoiler reinforce my opinion that the erasure of the EU was unnecessary to begin with. Disney is just chopping up the corpse for material to recycle.
Click to expand...
Not really though.
Because if they get rid of the Old EU they can build thier own. They do not have to have things they will never use or anything like that. Ot also gives them a chance to introduce things they want in better ways then things in legends.
Hlaalu Agent said:
But they haven't been salvaging the best, they have just been doing the same thing except worse. We have an even higher proportion of stinkers without getting such gems as "moffship, mofference, dark greetings, lase eyes robo leia" and so on.
Click to expand...
Have we though?
We had what, at least one horrible movie?
Then we have had a whole new season of Clone wars, tons of comics, a good amount of books, some great, some horrible. We had a whole new animated series, and now we have this awesome live action series
 
Zachowon said:
Not really though.
Because if they get rid of the Old EU they can build thier own. They do not have to have things they will never use or anything like that. Ot also gives them a chance to introduce things they want in better ways then things in legends.

Have we though?
We had what, at least one horrible movie?
Then we have had a whole new season of Clone wars, tons of comics, a good amount of books, some great, some horrible. We had a whole new animated series, and now we have this awesome live action series
Click to expand...

And do their scam of avoiding paying royalties.

Two bad movies. one meh rehash. We also got Rebels which utterly disrespected Thrawn and ended in glorifying terrorism...luring people into a ship and blowing it up, including countless non-combatants, yeah...

And we still don't have something at the tier of moffships! At least when the EU was bad, it tended to give us things that looped around to being funny, or had redeemable aspects.
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
And do their scam of avoiding paying royalties.

Two bad movies. one meh rehash. We also got Rebels which utterly disrespected Thrawn and ended in glorifying terrorism...luring people into a ship and blowing it up, including countless non-combatants, yeah...

And we still don't have something at the tier of moffships! At least when the EU was bad, it tended to give us things that looped around to being funny, or had redeemable aspects.
Click to expand...
All of the OT was glorifying terrorism against the big bad empire....
Rebels was good but started slow and was decent all the way through.
They treated Thrawn like how he was in the books. What got him to mess up was that he was facing force ex machina and incompetent underlines. He was exactly how he always had been.
Someone did a good job on that before.

Plus, I would rather watch the world evolve instead of having constant call backs to past works that i them have to read or something to understand the context behind that one as well.
 
Zachowon said:
All of the OT was glorifying terrorism against the big bad empire....
Rebels was good but started slow and was decent all the way through.
They treated Thrawn like how he was in the books. What got him to mess up was that he was facing force ex machina and incompetent underlines. He was exactly how he always had been.
Someone did a good job on that before.

Plus, I would rather watch the world evolve instead of having constant call backs to past works that i them have to read or something to understand the context behind that one as well.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that there wasn't so many blatant war crimes by the Rebels in the OT.

I disagree, it only was good towards the middle and fell apart towards the end. Also Magic Wolf goes, "DUUUUUME!"

You can watch the world evolve...by starting with the earlier books and then move on. And all you have done there is kick the can down the road, and provide an excuse for another reboot. And that is most mature settings, you have to read something else to get something.
 
Eh. I'm fine with them nixing the old EU, because frankly, it had been thoroughly messed up at that point. Now that the old EU is pretty much 'completed' and not really being expanded anymore, I can look at it, cherish what I like, and ignore/dismiss what I don't.

As for their new continuity: it started out with disappointing sequels and disappointing tie-ins, and is now more or less recovering from that. New stuff is getting added, basically turning the 'Filoniverse' into the new narrative core that people care about. Okay. Let's run with that.
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
I am pretty sure that there wasn't so many blatant war crimes by the Rebels in the OT.

I disagree, it only was good towards the middle and fell apart towards the end. Also Magic Wolf goes, "DUUUUUME!"

You can watch the world evolve...by starting with the earlier books and then move on. And all you have done there is kick the can down the road, and provide an excuse for another reboot. And that is most mature settings, you have to read something else to get something.
Click to expand...
So I should read over 100 books and the like to most likely get a reference in a story arc of a very recent thing? That should not happen. That is what the new Canon allows
 
Zachowon said:
So I should read over 100 books and the like to most likely get a reference in a story arc of a very recent thing? That should not happen. That is what the new Canon allows
Click to expand...

And then we are going to return to the exact same thing. So should we then reboot it again so someone else doesn't need to go through the effort? Or go through the effort of reading wookiepedia?
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
And then we are going to return to the exact same thing. So should we then reboot it again so someone else doesn't need to go through the effort? Or go through the effort of reading wookiepedia?
Click to expand...
They are putting no where near amount of the same stuff as they were in legends. You can actually catch up. Plus less book series then the others so less time I need to put aside for that
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top