What screams "the author didn't think of the implications"?

Shipmaster Sane said:

In Oblivion the Fighters guild is just flat out a Medieval mercenary company that's adapted to "High volume, small scale" work (though nothing says they don't participate in larger conflicts), and profits off of having a great reputation and relationship with the government. They even have a legal competitor that also flat out calls itself a Mercenary company. Career-Adventurers are also somewhat rare in DnD.

I mean, why the fuck would anyone normal want to be an adventurer? It's not fun. This rounds us back to my point about Fantasy anime, and GS in particular. Kids want to go be an adventurer because it's fun? I suppose you could at least just say that some kids are stupid and don't understand how horrifying it would be, but adults? Adults talking about adventures being fun? Fun? I practically swallowed my tongue when that loli trash elf said that shit, "adventures are supposed to be fun", fucking chiding the guy for being practical and treating a life and death situation like it could go sideways instantly, which it absolutely can.

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Aside from, "fun" think of stupid kids who grew up on stupid stories about SOME stupid kids becoming world class adventurers wiping out armies and such

They think they'll become No.1 or close enough

And TBF, part of the "fun" there is supposedly the whole "Look, we're going off to distant lands being Adventurer-Archeologists, this place here was once the ruins of an ancient civilization. Why the FUCK aren't YOU interested in doing a quest that isn't the same small mooks over and over again!?" and "We've ONLY been killing small goblins for the past few weeks ONLY them. Where are the other mooks coming in!?"

Closest way to justify calling an adventure "fun" is if you're a Blood Knight who wants to go around wandering the earth and encountering new foes and seeing stuff most ordinary people don't get to have and also get a big cash return or discover ancient jewels and the like

GS mostly just goes off to some backwaters that may not even have ancient ruins or even sinister masterminds more than half his time. Not even likely to get good loot, like ever, I bet if he relied solely on his funds from said poor villages he'd barely be able to afford even a minor repair for his armour let alone proper food....he gets to stay for free with his childhood friends' farm and even her uncle thinks the dude is crazy and a kid who never grew up

Shipmaster Sane said:

In Oblivion the Fighters guild is just flat out a Medieval mercenary company that's adapted to "High volume, small scale" work (though nothing says they don't participate in larger conflicts), and profits off of having a great reputation and relationship with the government. They even have a legal competitor that also flat out calls itself a Mercenary company. Career-Adventurers are also somewhat rare in DnD.


I mean, why the fuck would anyone normal want to be an adventurer? It's not fun. This rounds us back to my point about Fantasy anime, and GS in particular. Kids want to go be an adventurer because it's fun? I suppose you could at least just say that some kids are stupid and don't understand how horrifying it would be, but adults? Adults talking about adventures being fun? Fun? I practically swallowed my tongue when that loli trash elf said that shit, "adventures are supposed to be fun", fucking chiding the guy for being practical and treating a life and death situation like it could go sideways instantly, which it absolutely can.

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I think the companions are probably smarter and they are half drinking buddies and half hired toughs. I am pretty sure that is the FG over the course of most of the games. Doing mostly small scale work as part of an officially chartered guild.

The gold, perhaps? And the promise of power, influence, etc that you have a small chance of obtaining. And I agree being an adventurer isn't fun, it can be fun at points. There can be fun adventures, but it is largely a life of hard work and danger. Loli Elf seems to think it is like backpacking across Europe, or something. So I guess she was chiding the PTSD Autist who was turned into a guided missile by mirror Bilbo?

I mean, if you replaced Goblin Slayer himself with an average Paladin from DnD the first thing he'd do after clearing out the goblins would be to walk straight up to whoever gave the children the rape-cave mission and introduce them to their uncaring japanese gods.

I just have the image in my head of Jozan (Clr.) and Kursk (Barb.) trying to drag Ahlandra (Pal.) towards the door of the guild house while she's frothing at the mouth, minimum wage guild clerks and porters strewn dead and dying in her wake. Thats more or less why you cant do a GS-DnD crossover fic that easily despite the fact that GS is openly based on DnD, because GS is completely normal in DnD and DnD people would react with disgust and or violence to GS society.

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I can just imagine Goblin Slayer just watching the carnage unfold and not giving a fuck, because he knows exactly how fucked up it is. And I can imagine all of the outer quadrants going, "What the..." and true neutral supplying "fuck". I am not sure even lol chaotic neutral characters would be impressed. You should really write something on this, you have a lot of ideas it seems and it would be cathartic for everyone.

Hlaalu Agent said:

I can just imagine Goblin Slayer just watching the carnage unfold and not giving a fuck, because he knows exactly how fucked up it is. And I can imagine all of the outer quadrants going, "What the..." and true neutral supplying "fuck". I am not sure even lol chaotic neutral characters would be impressed. You should really write something on this, you have a lot of ideas it seems and it would be cathartic for everyone.

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*Ahlandra visiting the monastery or whatever after the goblin cave fiasco*
"Yes, I'm here to see the girl I brought here the other day who was injured"
...
...
"Oh. I see."

Shipmaster Sane said:

The difference might sound blurry in summary, but trust me in end result it is quite jarring.
In DnD, there are innumerable guilds, with many different purposes, including many mercenary companies. As a part of a fighting guild, you certainly don't have a little character card that lists your "job" and you certainly dont have one of those FUCKING BOUNTY BOARDS, god those things drive me up the fucking wall. You pay to be a member of an organization that lines up work for you on a person to person basis. It's not a bureaucracy, and it's not a hangout where people just sort of do whatever jobs they feel like.

Most DnD parties, from my experience, actually much more often prefer to work as freelance mercenaries, which means presenting yourself before a noble, mayor, or someone of some kind of standing (who you believe to have need of fighting men beforehand) with the offer of work, or otherwise scouring the land for opportunity.
Most Adventurers are either out of work veterans or devotees of some particular goal. Their lives are unimaginably brutal, but adventuring can bring fabulous riches and power far faster than any other path.

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Fair enough. Though you are seeming to paint a picture that all DnD adventures are military adventures by military organizations when what I have seen is some people get together who can fight for whatever reason and go on adventures to get rich.

As for the bounty boards? Well in GS, they are meant for locals to have adventurers take up their job requests for money. We know that the adventurer reports to someone of stature also happens, see that blind priestess and the elf and her party and how they sought how GS MC rather then putting up a bounty on the board.

Its not all bounty boards.

Take a look at an average first level Cleric in DnD vs Anime

Lord I can only imagine what the average Paladin would do if they encountered a teenage "adventurer" and found out that this endless feeding of children to monsters was officially sanctioned.

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I think you are being too strict with the clothe requirement as well fantasy has the whole bikini armor thing going on.

Shipmaster Sane said:

I mean, why the fuck would anyone normal want to be an adventurer? It's not fun. This rounds us back to my point about Fantasy anime, and GS in particular. Kids want to go be an adventurer because it's fun? I suppose you could at least just say that some kids are stupid and don't understand how horrifying it would be, but adults? Adults talking about adventures being fun? Fun? I practically swallowed my tongue when that loli trash elf said that shit, "adventures are supposed to be fun", fucking chiding the guy for being practical and treating a life and death situation like it could go sideways instantly, which it absolutely can.

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Loli? She is flat-chested and she gave the impression that she was either a teenager so she still thought in terms of fun, For rest of the adventurers, its a job.

As for why do it? Glory and wealth I supposed? I mean I head of DnD campaigns which were supposed to transition where the players no longer took to the field and instead had castles and had troops that did shit for them or they married someone important and they were able to do so by the reputation they had gained by their adventures.

LifeisTiresome said:

Fair enough. Though you are seeming to paint a picture that all DnD adventures are military adventures by military organizations when what I have seen is some people get together who can fight for whatever reason and go on adventures to get rich.

As for the bounty boards? Well in GS, they are meant for locals to have adventurers take up their job requests for money. We know that the adventurer reports to someone of stature also happens, see that blind priestess and the elf and her party and how they sought how GS MC rather then putting up a bounty on the board.

Its not all bounty boards.

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Still more-or-less the same, Sword Maiden went through Guild Bureaucracy to request for him

Also, guys like say Merchants went and stayed there and sort of evaluated for what guys they could get, I recall, depends on how much cash said Merchant's got

I think there's something with Japan and making adventurers and superheroes all government/corporate agents or essentially office workers

It'd be less quick, but you'd be more likely to see weird shit if you were just wandering the world near-randomly

CarlManvers2019 said:

Still more-or-less the same, Sword Maiden went through Guild Bureaucracy to request for him

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No. Its not the same. Ships point was about bounty boards. Going through the Guild Bureaucracy was simply having them tell him that someone wanted him for a job. The Sword Maiden could have sent someone to fetch him but why bother when she can have the organization he is part of do it for her.

Also, guys like say Merchants went and stayed there and sort of evaluated for what guys they could get, I recall, depends on how much cash said Merchant's got

I think there's something with Japan and making adventurers and superheroes all government/corporate agents or essentially office workers

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What I said above still applies.

It'd be less quick, but you'd be more likely to see weird shit if you were just wandering the world near-randomly

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Or go join up with the heroes and armies fighting against the Demon lord.

LifeisTiresome said:

Or go join up with the heroes and armies fighting against the Demon lord.

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Not sure how exactly "The Hero" and her party get quests, but they seem to have a constant audience with The King and other important figures

As for the armies, they're apparently all mostly "garrisoned troops" or something and are mostly to be "waiting" and there hasn't been much of a major war in 5-12 years in-universe because they beat the "Demon Lord" and it's gone back to sleep or something.

CarlManvers2019 said:

Not sure how exactly "The Hero" and her party get quests, but they seem to have a constant audience with The King and other important figures

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Likely all national shit aka coming from King or Nobles or them just doing whatever they want. They are the powerful people after all.

Thats my point. Its not all bounty boards. I can honestly see bounty boards as the guild having these host of jobs and leaving it to adventurers to take whatever they want. Whether a job gets taken or not and whatever the consequences of that matters not to them which shows the callousness of the world as see how the other adventurers had to be motivated to bother helping GS MC with the farm rather then wanting to do it cause "muh hero"

One thing i can see needing to be explained is why the guild is not reviled for being paid to have jobs be posted but nobody takes said jobs so you have people who pay money but never get anything out of it.

I suppose those whose lives depend on said job die cause no adventurer chose their job and thus they ceased to be an issue and those that don't die can just come and get their money back.

As for the armies, they're apparently all mostly "garrisoned troops" or something and are mostly to be "waiting" and there hasn't been much of a major war in 5-12 years in-universe because they beat the "Demon Lord" and it's gone back to sleep or something.

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Yep. As expected of generic fantasy. Such worlds tend to not have any real politics cause that causes issues. Any nation trying to do anything considered bad can get swarmed by heroes and thus nothing comes from that. Hence a demon lord is needed.

LifeisTiresome said:

Fair enough. Though you are seeming to paint a picture that all DnD adventures are military adventures by military organizations when what I have seen is some people get together who can fight for whatever reason and go on adventures to get rich.

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I dont know what this vague statement is supposed to mean. Nothing I guess?

LifeisTiresome said:

As for the bounty boards? Well in GS, they are meant for locals to have adventurers take up their job requests for money. We know that the adventurer reports to someone of stature also happens, see that blind priestess and the elf and her party and how they sought how GS MC rather then putting up a bounty on the board.

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Things I said:
Anime Bounty Boards are retarded.
Things I didn't say:
I dont know what the bounty boards are for.

Do I really need to go into all the ways GS society, and consequently the Fantasy Anime it's aping after, is retarded and requires everyone involved to be retarded? Is that not self evident to everyone?

LifeisTiresome said:

Loli? She is flat-chested and she gave the impression that she was either a teenager so she still thought in terms of fun, For rest of the adventurers, its a job.

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I dont have time in my life to distinguish 300000000000 year old lolis and 3 year old lolis. She's got no titties, she's got no ass, she's three feet tall, she's a loli.

LifeisTiresome said:

As for why do it? Glory and wealth I supposed? I mean I head of DnD campaigns which were supposed to transition where the players no longer took to the field and instead had castles and had troops that did shit for them or they married someone important and they were able to do so by the reputation they had gained by their adventures.

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Normal. The key word. Is normal.

No one normal takes a bad-bet where they're likely to be dismembered and eaten by a Roper for a one in a million chance of being rich, not for long.

LifeisTiresome said:

I think you are being too strict with the clothe requirement as well fantasy has the whole bikini armor thing going on.

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First off, boiling down the difference between a sixty pound little girl with no pants on who has never been in a fight in her life and a thirty year old six foot tall hundred eighty pound veteran magical soldier with a solid steel baseball bat, a crossbow, shield, and full body armor to "Hey stop complaining about clothes" is broke as hell. Completely missing the point.

Secondly, again with these vague responses, who in the setting actually wears a chainmail bikini? 99% of the people in the books are decked out in armor head to toe and carrying around twenty pound weapons.

Shipmaster Sane said:

I dont know what this vague statement is supposed to mean. Nothing I guess?

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Its self explanatory.

I said that you are pushing this idea that all DnD campaigns is military ones with military mercenary companies when not all are like that and some are just random hobbos working together to get rich and traveling from city to city or town for said jobs.

Your position is all military mercenaries part of mercenary companies. That is all.

Things I said:
Anime Bounty Boards are retarded.
Things I didn't say:
I dont know what the bounty boards are for.

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I think you are too harsh on this. I can see them making sense a bit for a guild that does not force its members to do a job if they don't want to.

Do I really need to go into all the ways GS society, and consequently the Fantasy Anime it's aping after, is retarded and requires everyone involved to be retarded? Is that not self evident to everyone?

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I never said that they are uber accurate worlds that make sense. Lots of fantasy whether anime or not is retarded for one reason or another. Stop being so pretentious.

I dont have time in my life to distinguish 300000000000 year old lolis and 3 year old lolis. She's got no titties, she's got no ass, she's three feet tall, she's a loli.

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She doesn't look like a kid but whatever.

Normal. The key word. Is normal.

No one normal takes a bad-bet where they're likely to be dismembered and eaten by a Roper for a one in a million chance of being rich, not for long.

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Ok. And? Again, I never said it was logical but just that I can see people doing it cause they don't have the reality of the situation or think that they can win or that its worth it cause glory and money and rising above their station.

First off, boiling down the difference between a sixty pound little girl with no pants on who has never been in a fight in her life and a thirty year old six foot tall hundred eighty pound veteran magical soldier with a solid steel baseball bat, a crossbow, shield, and full body armor to "Hey stop complaining about clothes" is broke as hell. Completely missing the point.

Secondly, again with these vague responses, who in the setting actually wears a chainmail bikini? 99% of the people in the books are decked out in armor head to toe and carrying around twenty pound weapons.

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Not if one goes by tvtropes where they talk about how the earlier work had the stereotypical barely their armor.

Hell tvtropes example:



I did not say that you didn't have a point but that this complaint is more of a fantasy complaint.

CarlManvers2019 said:

Aside from, "fun" think of stupid kids who grew up on stupid stories about SOME stupid kids becoming world class adventurers wiping out armies and such

They think they'll become No.1 or close enough

And TBF, part of the "fun" there is supposedly the whole "Look, we're going off to distant lands being Adventurer-Archeologists, this place here was once the ruins of an ancient civilization. Why the FUCK aren't YOU interested in doing a quest that isn't the same small mooks over and over again!?" and "We've ONLY been killing small goblins for the past few weeks ONLY them. Where are the other mooks coming in!?"

Closest way to justify calling an adventure "fun" is if you're a Blood Knight who wants to go around wandering the earth and encountering new foes and seeing stuff most ordinary people don't get to have and also get a big cash return or discover ancient jewels and the like

GS mostly just goes off to some backwaters that may not even have ancient ruins or even sinister masterminds more than half his time. Not even likely to get good loot, like ever, I bet if he relied solely on his funds from said poor villages he'd barely be able to afford even a minor repair for his armour let alone proper food....he gets to stay for free with his childhood friends' farm and even her uncle thinks the dude is crazy and a kid who never grew up

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Well I found this on quora once that I saved cause I found it interesting:

A guy answered in the interview when he was put forward with the question "Why do you want to join Indian Army as an officer?" His reply was "Sir, officeron ki biwiyan bahut khubsoorat hoti he." Meaning the wives of officers are quiet beautiful. Another guy "I want the society to treat me with respect and honour, and I want to be able to take responsibility of any bad situation" for example if a girl is being molested no one may raise their voice even the police, but an army office , you know won't just be a passerby.

The motivation factor is the same that Achilles says "People will remember your name". Yes if any one dies while fighting terrorists his name won't be lost in the future. Yes that was the greatest idea which our forefathers bought up for the warriors " Protect your motherland, die saving her and your name will be registered for ever in the books of history".

There can be all sorts of reasons why one wants to become an adventurer. Frankly, I can see such a system having tons of people who are simply not made for it being killed but its likely never focused on for one reason or another.

LifeisTiresome said:

Not if one goes by tvtropes where they talk about how the earlier work had the stereotypical barely their armor.

Hell tvtropes example:

I did not say that you didn't have a point but that this complaint is more of a fantasy complaint.

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To expand on this, Bedouin people who live in the desert wear clothes. Arab armies wore armor despite it being hot. The above pic is bullshit.

Shipmaster Sane said:

99% of the people in the books are decked out in armor head to toe and carrying around twenty pound weapons.

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20-pound weapons? I hope that's hyperbole, or else those artists need a serious reality check.

A normal mace or sword weighs in at 2-4 pounds, with some of the heavier ones clocking in at 5-6 pounds. Some of the super-heavy, ridiculously-large ones that were used purely for decorative or ceremonial purposes and never in actual combat (unless the wielder wanted to die as quickly as possible) could go as high as 8-12 pounds.

That said, there is one historical instance of a 15-pound zweihänder being used in actual combat with reasonable effectiveness by a guy named Pier Gerlofs Donia, but... well, that's it. There are no other examples with any real weight (HA!) behind them, and even in this case historians are split on whether it was actually used the way it's described or if it's just stories and nothing more. It should be noted that the guy was said to be 213 cm tall (almost 7 feet), extremely buff and possessed of strength far beyond that of any other human. Plus, the stories connecting him to the sword are... not all that substantiated and post-date his death by over 200 years, so it's highly likely the sword was never actually used in combat at all.

For a "normal" humanoid trying to wield a 20-pound weapon in combat is an excellent way to reduce their overall combat effectiveness to a level below that of a small child with a stick... or a goblin, I suppose.

Then again, you might be talking about a setting that doesn't even try for anything remotely resembling realism, in which case feel free to ignore this post.

Oh, and I'm not commenting in regards to the rest of your post or the whole GS discussion, just that one snippet I quoted, in case that wasn't clear.

Speaking of Japanese media, I find the fictions that use mecha on a battlefield in serious numbers often completely neglect the existence of air supremacy or common infantry anti-tank systems (let alone tanks, but that's another story). That aside, the way of war, the battle doctrine, is usually just a complete mess. It gets rather absurd when entire campaigns are decided by "who has the shiniest mech?"

What I'm getting at, essentially, is that the implications of mecha in warfare, how they'd fit in to battle doctrine and what their counters would be, are rarely considered.

Speaking of giant mecha, I really wonder just how much all those building sized mecha cost

And if it’s relatively cheap to make them, then that same technology can be used for other vehicles and machinery

A shaped charge to the knee of a mech will mobility kill the damn thing if it has two legs and seriously weaken it if it has four.

As for the chainmail bikini it exists alongside the fur loincloth male barbarian warriors wear. Hell in our world, Celtic warriors went into battle covered only in woad.

BTW the pic Life posted is from Darksun. It's basically Mad Max in a fantasy setting.

Typhonis said:

Hell in our world, Celtic warriors went into battle covered only in woad.

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Some did, usually the more drugged up and valiant fighters of the tribe. Otherwise they usually wore tunics of a sort, with the wealthy having Lorica Hamata or "chain mail" of a variety.

And it availed them fuck all in a head on clash with 1st century Imperial Roman Legionaries.

Lord Sovereign said:

Speaking of Japanese media, I find the fictions that use mecha on a battlefield in serious numbers often completely neglect the existence of air supremacy or common infantry anti-tank systems (let alone tanks, but that's another story). That aside, the way of war, the battle doctrine, is usually just a complete mess. It gets rather absurd when entire campaigns are decided by "who has the shiniest mech?"

What I'm getting at, essentially, is that the implications of mecha in warfare, how they'd fit in to battle doctrine and what their counters would be, are rarely considered.

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Each Gundam series has different explanations for why mechas are dominant, though the depth at which these explanations are broken down varies from show to show. In the UC and IBO timelines, their mechas and spaceships are powered by uber reactors that give off particles that disrupt electronic sensors and communications, thus why missiles and drones and unmanned vehicles aren't used. IBO also made the Gundams move ridiculously fast (both in space and on the ground) so they could dodge missiles. IBO also had their mechs coasted in a paint which reflected lasers, and since the frames were strong enough to shrug off projectiles (plus the fact that since they moved so fast, you'd hardly ever actually hit the mech with a projectile or a missile anyway), that left the only choice being melee combat.

Battlemechs in Battletech are slow and stompy, so they'd get hit by missiles, and unlike Gundam they don't have reactors which jam missiles from locking on and stuff, so it seems like the Battletechs are just made out of ridiculously strong armor that can tank missile strikes, which implies that battletechs take a really long time to kill.

CarlManvers2019 said:

Speaking of giant mecha, I really wonder just how much all those building sized mecha cost

And if it’s relatively cheap to make them, then that same technology can be used for other vehicles and machinery

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Gundam creator Tomino broke down the logic as to why go with humanoid mechas: he pointed out that under newtonian physics, having a spaceship that looks like an airplane, with a big engine at the back, just doesn't work. If you want your spaceship to be agile, it needs to have tons of thrusters at different angles, so something like what Babylon 5 did with it's spacefighters. So that's why you go with a humanoid robot: it has four limbs that can be actuated and you can put your thrusters on those limbs, giving it orders of magnitude more agility than a traditional spaceship with a big engine in the back. Plus, it's a humanoid robot so it can easily be controlled by human neural interfaces. Also, since they're humanoid robots, they're versatile and can be used for other things, like construction.

To anyone who’s read Tokyo Ghoul

2 things are VERY hard to put my head around

1st, how there can be frankly thousands of Ghouls in Tokyo alone when it’s stated that they need at least ONE body’s worth of human meat per MONTH

And that doesn’t even account for the guys who eat for pleasure more than survival and are likely to be in their own equivalent of gangs and will kill more than necessary

2nd, the end wherein Ghouls essentially get en masse pardons to be allowed to live with humans, sure there was a food substitute made but it doesn’t take into account how they have extensive criminal records and guys like the Tsukiyama’s engaged in human trafficking to have “nicer meals” and even kidnapped celebrities to turn them into “pets” and Tsukiyama himself once even left a lady walking around completely blinded as he purposely only came for only her eyes and turns out that he does this REGULARLY

Tsukiyama even ended up in an important public position

Even if he made a change, it doesn’t take into account having a guy with a fully public record of serial killing and human trafficking, as now being an important politician or the like

There would be lots of people even outside of Japan where Ghouls ALSO live, that would have a major issue over this

Huh, no one mentioned TLJ hyperspace ramming. That's new.

Shipmaster Sane said:

Take a look at an average first level Cleric in DnD vs Anime

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Ok, to be fair here, there are cleric builds and archetypes that are weapon and equipment light (pathfinder's cloistered cleric comes to mind), and if you botch that starting wealth roll, you can end up with pretty crap gear.

Val the Moofia Boss said:

Battlemechs in Battletech are slow and stompy, so they'd get hit by missiles, and unlike Gundam they don't have reactors which jam missiles from locking on and stuff, so it seems like the Battletechs are just made out of ridiculously strong armor that can tank missile strikes, which implies that battletechs take a really long time to kill.

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I think part of battletech's excuse is that anti-missile weapons will shred larger heavy missiles easily (thunderbolt missiles being a good example, they're big by Battletech standards and only have a 50/50 shot of making it through AMS), and the other part is that the rules quite openly rig the scales in the mech's favor, such as bsnning vehicles from using DHS and forcing them to carry enough sinks to completely sink the heat from thier weapons.