Star Wars Zachowon's The Book of Boba Fett Thread

[Skallagrim]

Except that's not what Luke said. He told Grogu that if he stayed to train, he might not see the Mandalorian again because of the difference in their lifespans. That's literally true -- since Grogu is visibly still a toddler at 50 years old, he might not reach a mature Padawan equivalent level for a century or more.

That's grasping at straws. That whole previous episode set up that the attachment that Din felt towards Grogu (and vice versa) was the problem Luke and Ahsoka were worried about and warning against. Trying to justify that by pretending that it was about age and life-span issues is complete nonsense. It's a given that if Grogu lives a long life that isn't cut short, he'll outlive all other characters... including Luke, too.

Your whole argument implicitly recognises that Luke's ultimatum boils down to "you don't see him again until I'm done training you", which -- again -- is a psychopath's manipulative ultimatum by definition. Known jack-ass and attempted nephew-murderer Jake Skywalker would do that kind of thing, but the Luke Skywalker we recognise wouldn't. Because, as the original films starring him actually demonstrated, he knows that love and connection to others is the greatest strength we have.

RotJ literally ends with him fixing the fatal flaw of the old order.

This bullshit has him repeating that flaw... but worse. So he is indeed descending into Jake Skywalker territory. Becoming the pathetic imitation of himself we see in TLJ.

In defense of the Jedi on the "forcefully recruiting kids" front.

Imagine a force sensitive teenager, full of uncontrolled hormones and emotions, without ANY Jedi training? Pretty much walking Darkside fodder and while probably not as powerful as a properly trained Sith or Jedi, we're still talking capable of a LOT of nasty things. I mean the Mind Trick ALONE would allow all sorts of very nasty mischief and it's demonstratably one of the easier powers to learn and manifest. And considering that the Dark Side is consistently portrayed as "easier" to learn than proper Force use, it would make sense that a sufficiently powerful force sensitive without training would more likely end up following the Dark Path and thus and end up causing considerable damage to their community and themselves.

As such, while I do disagree with the cutting off of attachments practiced by the Jedi, the situation Force sensitives are in is not entirely dissimilar to that of Mages in Dragon Age. They are demonstratable dangerous to their communities if left untrained, and so mandatory training away from those communities at young ages is a valid societal response...

One major problem with that reasoning is that they actively sought out the Force-sensitive kids. And that it's also established that if Force abilities aren't honed by training, they barely ever manifest, or even fade away as you grow older.

"We have to train you in isolation because of the powers that might be dangerous... but only if we train you" is insane troll logic.

I understand that the Jedi want new recruits, and I don't blame them. I also understand that they have to start the training at a young age if they start it all, because you'll typically have trouble learning the prerequisite restraint unless you learn that from a young age. But the idea that the galaxy would be over-run by unchecked Force-users if the Jedi didn't do what they did is nonsense. The real outcome is simply that the Jedi would die out, and Force-users would become vanishingly rare.

(Okay, in reality, the Banite Sith would emerge from the shadows and take over, but nobody knew that, so that can't count as a justification.)

Anyway, as I've reasoned above, Luke in the OT already demonstrated that the old Jedi had been wrong about all of this, and that his "attachments" (if properly managed) actually mde him much stronger -- and a better Jedi. So what the Jedi should have been doing instead of isolating your inductees from their old lives would be the opposite of that. The Jedi should have moved out of their ivory tower-- uh, temple, and should have started living among the people. New inductees should be raised in their own communities, with Jedi moving into the community to essentially tutor them in a natural setting. That approach would teach the younglings to manage their attachments to others, rather than suppress those attachments.

In the old EU, this is what Jedi had actually more-or-less done for over 90% of their history, and what the Corellian Jedi had kept on doing all along (and kriff the council's dictates). And it worked just fine.

We shouldn't ever forget that the Jedi Order before the Clone Wars had been manipulated by Sith plotting, actively steered towards stagnation, isolation, and other deeply unhealthy patterns. They weren't right. They were the misguided victims of a cruel conspiracy, blinded by the shroud of the Dark Side that the Banite Sith cast over the galaxy during their thousand-year "march through the insitutions".

The truest Jedi we ever saw on screen was Luke Skywalker, facing Palpatine. And what does Palpatine tell him? That his love for his friends is a weakness that will doom him. And Luke proves him dead wrong. Love saves everything.

 

[Robovski]

Not to mention Luke is clearly demonstrating attachment when talking about Yoda's lightsaber.

 

[Sailor.X]

I'll repeat what I previously wrote under a spoiler cut, a week ago:


Having Luke force a choice on the little guy is just terrible writing. It's really stupid, both in-universe and just as a narrative choice. This kind of "you must choose on or the other", especially when forced by an adult on a kid, is always a villain move. This is what a gas-lighting, manipulative parental figure does when his victim finds a new friend and may therefore find an avenue out of the manipulations of the parental figure.

Luke wouldn't do this, because it's a shit move. I also don't like that he'd bring back the stupid "no attachment" idea, since that was demonstrably a bad idea, but okay -- we might debate that. If all the holocrons and shit told him that's the way to be a Jedi, maybe he's just trying to live up to the legacy or whatever. But going about it by basically forcing a child to choose between gifts and saying "choose A and you'll never see me again, choose B and you'll never see your adoptive dad again" is just... psychopathic.

From a writing perspective, it's just lazy. Whatever outcome you want to achieve with this, it can be done better. (Considering that the converted Naboo fighter explicitly has an extra little cockpit, it's pretty clear which way this choice is going, by the way.) [ETA: told you so.]

Anyway, this shit depiction of Luke just shows us that, somehow, he was already becoming the utter shit-heel he would later become, trying to kill his nephew and abandoning the galaxy to suffer.


I stand by all of that. Trying to justify this kind of bullshit is just weak. It's not reasonable to just give a kind a cruel choice. No, it's not somehow smart of kind of good or even jusifiable. It's cruel. The idea was that Jedi build their own light-sabre, and that they do this at a later stage in their training. That's a good moment for a choice. You give them the basic training, so there's a good chance they learn some self-control. And then, when you're at the point where the time has come for them to build their own-light-sabre, you can ask them the question. "Are you sure this is the path you want?" And you lay out the challenges and the potetial limitations. You make it clear there's no shame in choosing another path.

That's a real choice, an informed choice. And it's a galaxy away from this mean-spirited nonsense and shit writing that some people here are trying to cover up with a metric ton of weak excuses. You sound like those TLJ shills who think Jake Skywalker was "ackshuwally very much in character".

Dude you are taking this way to personally. Are you projecting from something that happened to you as a child. Because this is just a TV show. Have a chill pill.

 

[Skallagrim]

Dude you are taking this way to personally. Are you projecting from something that happened to you as a child. Because this is just a TV show. Have a chill pill.

I'm expressing an opinion on writing, its quality, and how themes and narratives can be poitively or negatively presented. You have similarly expressed opinions. The fact that you happen to disagree with me doesn't say anything about me. I think it does say something about your level of discernment, but that's another matter.

Don't try to make that personal; that's even more pathetic than trying to find weak exuses for shitty writing.

 

[Sailor.X]

I'm expressing an opinion on writing, its quality, and how themes and narratives can be poitively or negatively presented. You have similarly expressed opinions. The fact that you happen to disagree with me doesn't say anything about me. I think it does say something about your level of discernment, but that's another matter.

Don't try to make that personal; that's even more pathetic than trying to find weak exuses for shitty writing.

Uh huh yeah I got it. Not gonna take anything you say here serious anymore. I will carry on with the others. Have a nice day..

 

[Skallagrim]

Uh huh yeah I got it. Not gonna take anything you say here serious anymore. I will carry on with the others. Have a nice day..

Now I remember-- you're that delusional ultra-smug fellow who thought he had the secret theory about the Master Plan For Star Wars™ all figured out.

Keep working on that personality, some day you may grow to be something other than a sad imp who overcompensates online by affecting an air of condescension.

 

[Sailor.X]

Now I remember-- you're that delusional ultra-smug fellow who thought he had the secret theory about the Master Plan For Star Wars™ all figured out.

Keep working on that personality, some day you may grow to be something other than a sad imp who overcompensates online by affecting an air of condescension.

Dude drop it already. You are the one who for some reason are trying to cause a flame war. I told you good day and am being civil. Drop it already I don't want to cause a thread derail by us hurling insults at each other that would be disrespectful to all the people in this thread who are not about that kind of stuff.

 

[Skallagrim]

Dude drop it already. You are the one who for some reason are trying to cause a flame war. I told you good day and am being civil. Drop it already I don't want to cause a thread derail by us hurling insults at each other that would be disrespectful to all the people in this thread who are not about that kind of stuff.

Hey, you're the one who tried to make it personal. And don't pretend you're being civil here. You're acting like a smug jack-ass who just wants the last word at all costs, and you're obsessively pissed that I just won't agree with your opinion and won't let you have a parting shot.

If you want this dropped, just stop your hissy fit already. Simple as that. All you have to do is never talk to me again. As long as you keep trying to get in snippy little parting shots, I'll keep calling you out for your shit.

 

[S'task]

That's grasping at straws. That whole previous episode set up that the attachment that Din felt towards Grogu (and vice versa) was the problem Luke and Ahsoka were worried about and warning against. Trying to justify that by pretending that it was about age and life-span issues is complete nonsense. It's a given that if Grogu lives a long life that isn't cut short, he'll outlive all other characters... including Luke, too.

Your whole argument implicitly recognises that Luke's ultimatum boils down to "you don't see him again until I'm done training you", which -- again -- is a psychopath's manipulative ultimatum by definition. Known jack-ass and attempted nephew-murderer Jake Skywalker would do that kind of thing, but the Luke Skywalker we recognise wouldn't. Because, as the original films starring him actually demonstrated, he knows that love and connection to others is the greatest strength we have.

RotJ literally ends with him fixing the fatal flaw of the old order.

This bullshit has him repeating that flaw... but worse. So he is indeed descending into Jake Skywalker territory. Becoming the pathetic imitation of himself we see in TLJ.



One major problem with that reasoning is that they actively sought out the Force-sensitive kids. And that it's also established that if Force abilities aren't honed by training, they barely ever manifest, or even fade away as you grow older.

"We have to train you in isolation because of the powers that might be dangerous... but only if we train you" is insane troll logic.

I understand that the Jedi want new recruits, and I don't blame them. I also understand that they have to start the training at a young age if they start it all, because you'll typically have trouble learning the prerequisite restraint unless you learn that from a young age. But the idea that the galaxy would be over-run by unchecked Force-users if the Jedi didn't do what they did is nonsense. The real outcome is simply that the Jedi would die out, and Force-users would become vanishingly rare.

(Okay, in reality, the Banite Sith would emerge from the shadows and take over, but nobody knew that, so that can't count as a justification.)

Anyway, as I've reasoned above, Luke in the OT already demonstrated that the old Jedi had been wrong about all of this, and that his "attachments" (if properly managed) actually mde him much stronger -- and a better Jedi. So what the Jedi should have been doing instead of isolating your inductees from their old lives would be the opposite of that. The Jedi should have moved out of their ivory tower-- uh, temple, and should have started living among the people. New inductees should be raised in their own communities, with Jedi moving into the community to essentially tutor them in a natural setting. That approach would teach the younglings to manage their attachments to others, rather than suppress those attachments.

In the old EU, this is what Jedi had actually more-or-less done for over 90% of their history, and what the Corellian Jedi had kept on doing all along (and kriff the council's dictates). And it worked just fine.

We shouldn't ever forget that the Jedi Order before the Clone Wars had been manipulated by Sith plotting, actively steered towards stagnation, isolation, and other deeply unhealthy patterns. They weren't right. They were the misguided victims of a cruel conspiracy, blinded by the shroud of the Dark Side that the Banite Sith cast over the galaxy during their thousand-year "march through the insitutions".

The truest Jedi we ever saw on screen was Luke Skywalker, facing Palpatine. And what does Palpatine tell him? That his love for his friends is a weakness that will doom him. And Luke proves him dead wrong. Love saves everything.

I don't disagree with how you think the Jedi should handle training. It would end up much healthier for everyone. My only point was that there is some logic to the train them early idea, but I would also note that two things would push the Jedi to centralize their teaching method. The first would be a desire for standardized teaching and orthodoxy. The Jedi are, at heart, a religious order and so some group of them will always be concerned with making sure everyone is Orthadox and that's easier when teaching is centralized. The second is the Republic's beauracracy, which would also want to see the Jedi training centealized (especially on Coruscant) as it ensures the Republic greater control over the Order.

I would also note that a lotnof the issues we see with the old order entered the Jedi via the Ruusan reformation. That's where the Jedi Code is said to have originated from that is the core of much of the philosophical problems that led to the issues the Jedi faced. I much prefer the previous code that is sometimes used in the EU that while directly related to the Ruusan code, does not demonize emotions and attachments the same way.

 

[Skallagrim]

I don't disagree with how you think the Jedi should handle training. It would end up much healthier for everyone. My only point was that there is some logic to the train them early idea, but I would also note that two things would push the Jedi to centralize their teaching method. The first would be a desire for standardized teaching and orthodoxy. The Jedi are, at heart, a religious order and so some group of them will always be concerned with making sure everyone is Orthadox and that's easier when teaching is centralized. The second is the Republic's beauracracy, which would also want to see the Jedi training centealized (especially on Coruscant) as it ensures the Republic greater control over the Order.

I would also note that a lotnof the issues we see with the old order entered the Jedi via the Ruusan reformation. That's where the Jedi Code is said to have originated from that is the core of much of the philosophical problems that led to the issues the Jedi faced. I much prefer the previous code that is sometimes used in the EU that while directly related to the Ruusan code, does not demonize emotions and attachments the same way.

I absolutely agree with everything you write here. It's perfectly understandable that the Jedi acted as they did. Even under the best of "normal" historical circmstances, it would be very much expcted that things wold evolve in that direction, post-Ruusan. When we factor in the Sith manipulation, the Order can easily be absolved of most blame.

All of which is to say: I certainly reject the occasionally-seen meme that tries to paint the Jedi as actually being evil and horribly indoctrinated/dogmatic/fascist/whatever. They're good people, who have been dealt a petty raw hand by the vagaries of history and fate, and whose best attempts to do the right thing have been (dare I use the word?) subverted by an unseen enemy.

Still, it's a great thing to see when Luke actually steps beyond that weakness, and really embodies the true "Return of the Jedi". Not just from their near-extinction, but also from the centuries of gradual decay that preceded it.

And for that same reason, it's sad to see that acomplishment (hell, I'll use the word again!) subverted once more, when they turn Luke into someone who instead repeats and even compounds the old mistakes.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

A lot of my issues stem from the fact that with everything Luke has gone through that choice thing was out of character for him and even the jedi as a whole. You would have thought if that sort of thing was normal Yoda would have given both Anakin and Luke the same choices and rather than choose between one or the other, Luke chose both and saved Anakin and the galaxy as a result. It seems like this was done as a plausible explanation as to why Luke Skywalker becomes Jake Skywalker if Kathleen does in fact force Faveruge and Fioni's hands and make all roads lead to the ST and I think People miss the primary problem with the ST. It's a reboot trying to pass itself off as a sequel and as such repeats all of the major beats down to having to fight charecters that were supposed to be dead. Yes humans repeat the same mistakes as their ancestors in real life, but if you do the same thing in a film saga. It's going to get hard to invest in the story and it's characters. Yes we see Rey raise her gold blade Orginal New Hope poster style, but how do we know she isin't just going to repeat the same mistakes that Jake Skywalker and Master Yoda before him? How do we know Palpatine will actually stay dead this time and not come back via another overly complicated and non-sensical plot, after all "He died before." What is the point of getting invested in Star Wars if it's just the exact same story over and over again.

 

[Skallagrim]

A lot of my issues stem from the fact that with everything Luke has gone through that choice thing was out of character for him and even the jedi as a whole. You would have thought if that sort of thing was normal Yoda would have given both Anakin and Luke the same choices and rather than choose between one or the other, Luke chose both and saved Anakin and the galaxy as a result. It seems like this was done as a plausible explanation as to why Luke Skywalker becomes Jake Skywalker if Kathleen does in fact force Faveruge and Fioni's hands and make all roads lead to the ST and I think People miss the primary problem with the ST. It's a reboot trying to pass itself off as a sequel and as such repeats all of the major beats down to having to fight charecters that were supposed to be dead. Yes humans repeat the same mistakes as their ancestors in real life, but if you do the same thing in a film saga. It's going to get hard to invest in the story and it's characters. Yes we see Rey raise her gold blade Orginal New Hope poster style, but how do we know she isin't just going to repeat the same mistakes that Jake Skywalker and Master Yoda before him? How do we know Palpatine will actually stay dead this time and not come back via another overly complicated and non-sensical plot, after all "He died before." What is the point of getting invested in Star Wars if it's just the exact same story over and over again.

"Return to stand-by" is the creed of the modern mass production. It's not an idea, or a story, or a universe -- it's a "property". And the studio bozos, they have check-boxes marked all out, determining what it must be like. And nothing gets to change. All evolution must be undone. Because if things get to move on... then you actually have to write something new. You can't re-hash and you can't just tear down. You have to build. And that takes skill, which they lack.

There's a bitter twist, there. George Lucas fought against studio influence his whole career, and then sold his life's work to the biggest studio of all.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

"Return to stand-by" is the creed of the modern mass production. It's not an idea, or a story, or a universe -- it's a "property". And the studio bozos, they have check-boxes marked all out, determining what it must be like. And nothing gets to change. All evolution must be undone. Because if things get to move on... then you actually have to write something new. You can't re-hash and you can't just tear down. You have to build. And that takes skill, which they lack.

There's a bitter twist, there. George Lucas fought against studio influence his whole career, and then sold his life's work to the biggest studio of all.

I think it urks me to no end how even with the sequel trilogy we never got any other force factions that were relevant. Imagine if instead of having to face Recycled Palpatine and his Diet Empire, the New Republic and the Jedi had to face a threat like these guys.





heck biggest missed opportunities of having a Legion of Sith cultist and an army of corporeal force ghost was seeing army on army lightsaber action for the first time in motion picture on the big screen.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I know we've moved on but... @Skallagrim was training to be a Jedi when he was a kid?

 

[Skallagrim]

I know we've moved on but... @Skallagrim was training to be a Jedi when he was a kid?

Dead last in my class.

So when Order 66 went down, and I was just out buying groceries... well, I quickly applied for a job in the grocery store, didn't I?

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Well, it looks like this episode this episode finally broke Overlord DVD I hate to admit it but I find it satisfying all of the false rumors and questionable conveniently unverifiable sources it's nice seeing him finally throwing in the towel. What I don't know is funny or sad is that it seems that apparently he and the his sec of the Fandom Menace LIKED that Grogu was forced to choose because it meant(They thought) that the two would be forced to split up and how it's an important part of the heroes journey or whatever and they are upset that Funny I heard no complaints in episode 5 when look chose to go after vader and save his friends rather than stay and fulfill his destiny. Hate Grogu if you want, desire to have them split up if you want, but that choice scene was awful and OOC for Luke regardless.

So you mean to tell me that had Luke not forced the choice at all you would have still considered it disrespectful because "We'd be stuck with the 50 year old brain damaged alien." whatever happened to "We want KK to respect Luke's character." or was all that just a buzzwords to rally a following behind you so you could get those sweet hate views?

Regardless of what your view on the ST trilogy is. I hope this makes you realize that The Star Wars fans are very much divided and in most cases they can't decide what they want. Whether legends, Disney canon or Fanfiction, Like what you like. don't watch what you don't. Just don't be a jerk about it. I would say hopefully this is will soon mean the end of Overlord DVD and his Fandom Menace followers in terms of Star Wars, but let's face it Star Wars is the only thing keeping him relevant.

P.S: I didn't even like the last episode of TBBF

 

[Zachowon]

I liked it personally

 

[Husky_Khan]

The show was entertaining. I was never "bored" but I can't vouch for it being good overall.

 

[Sailor.X]

I liked it. Mostly because it gave good call backs to the Spaghetti Westerns of the 1960s. If you have seen any you will see the parallels.

 

[SchrodingersWehraboo]

Well, it looks like this episode this episode finally broke Overlord DVD I hate to admit it but I find it satisfying all of the false rumors and questionable conveniently unverifiable sources it's nice seeing him finally throwing in the towel. What I don't know is funny or sad is that it seems that apparently he and the his sec of the Fandom Menace LIKED that Grogu was forced to choose because it meant(They thought) that the two would be forced to split up and how it's an important part of the heroes journey or whatever and they are upset that Funny I heard no complaints in episode 5 when look chose to go after vader and save his friends rather than stay and fulfill his destiny. Hate Grogu if you want, desire to have them split up if you want, but that choice scene was awful and OOC for Luke regardless.

So you mean to tell me that had Luke not forced the choice at all you would have still considered it disrespectful because "We'd be stuck with the 50 year old brain damaged alien." whatever happened to "We want KK to respect Luke's character." or was all that just a buzzwords to rally a following behind you so you could get those sweet hate views?

Regardless of what your view on the ST trilogy is. I hope this makes you realize that The Star Wars fans are very much divided and in most cases they can't decide what they want. Whether legends, Disney canon or Fanfiction, Like what you like. don't watch what you don't. Just don't be a jerk about it. I would say hopefully this is will soon mean the end of Overlord DVD and his Fandom Menace followers in terms of Star Wars, but let's face it Star Wars is the only thing keeping him relevant.

P.S: I didn't even like the last episode of TBBF

As far as my sources go, I think this disjointed and incoherent episode proves that they were spot on, that Disney was editing and reshooting this mess up to the end. It proves that Chapters 5 and 6 were The Mandalorian, not Book of Boba Fett. WDWPro told me that Han would appear, Harrison Ford was even listed on the IMDB page, and I think even Drunk 3PO said the same, but it appears among the many edits they deleted the scene with Han and Chewie. I don't know, maybe they knew this episode was a total dog and they wanted to save Han and Chewie for an episode that wasn't a failure. I'll be trying to figure it out, but I'm convinced they edited him out. I have people digging into it, but yeah...Disney has to PROVE that they're serious about Star Wars, they have to put QUALITY above all else, before I'll watch more. I'll still cover it for those of you who care, and I've done my best to be positive, but this is simply not acceptable to me. Guess we'll see if they can salvage things. I certainly hope so.

He is still doing the same old “sources tell me” thing!
😂😂

Spoiler: My thoughts.

I don’t know if this is just Robert Rodriguez or micromanaging courtesy of LucasFilm, but this episode perfectly epitomized everything wrong with modern directorial beats in editing and tension. Too many Whedonesque quips mid-fight for one example.
Firstly, those Scorponek droids. Gotta be the most underwhelming “minibosses” one might see in Star Wars. Those dual heavy blasters they have, I didn’t see a single person in Fett’s crew get vaporized by them, not even knocked into the air. It’s like they were deliberately shooting to miss the juicy target of all those extras running in the open. Add to that, those blasters can blow up the freetown speeder but they can’t blow through the concrete wall the good guys were hiding behind in the last fight scene? Loooool. Oh, and after it being made clear that the droid shield can’t handle blaster fire? They keep shooting them anyway. The absolute dumbest troop of modern fight scenes. “If 300 shots didn’t make a dent, try 300 more.”
Next, Boba’s final crew was pretty sparse. What happen to hiring more muscle with Jabba’s money, Fett? Would’ve been a nice opportunity for the “real star warz fanz!!1!1” making the show to include more extras calling back to the OT, but no. Also, sending Krssantan to patrol the TRANDOSHAN quarter seems like a bad idea for keeping the peace, spontaneous betrayal or not. And despite the lopsided odds, I didn’t see more than 3 of Boba’s crew get shot during all that firing. Oh, and the gunplay felt pretty lacking. I know it’s of quaternary concern for star wars, but you’d think in a show centered around criminal action there’d be more attention to detail. I’m quite certain the post-production didn’t even bother to change the colors of the blaster fire (which you’d think would vary in a place where people make due with the hodge-podges of the galaxy like tatooine). It’s all red, all one-hit kills except the Mandos and Krssantan, literal plot armor.
And the whole Rancor rampage scene…yeah, feels like an afterthought upon realizing that the final battle didn’t pan out long enough to fit the length. I’ve seen some complaints saying Boba should’ve brought out the Slave 1, but I guess one could argue that the fighter wouldn’t have been precise enough to stop the Pykes without wrecking chunks of the town…even though the Rancor did end up wrecking part of the town.
And yeah yeah Grogu, well It’s not like Disney-Lucasfilm was going to admit they screwed up and swap the canon around so soon.
At this rate, I’m better off writing fanfiction.