China Wuhan Virus Pandemic

[Harlock]

Dodger, you got utterly slaughtered on Kiwi farms for this type of argument, don't bring it back here because they blew you out over there.

If you turn this into doom posting and poorly drawn conclusions despite the farms telling you in very clear terms the faults in your set up then I will remove you from this thread forever.

Enough is enough, we've been very patient with you and you haven't learned. Right now you're just pissing people off and not because they can't handle the truth, it's because you cannot.

Think carefully before continuing because there aren't many places left for you to go.

 

[Zachowon]

They are being left in the dark. I have discussed features of this disease with medical professionals, and many of them were shocked and surprised by what I was saying. There are still doctors who don't know why ventilators aren't working. I can explain why ventilators aren't working. It's because the oxygen can't get into the blood, because the blood vessels are too injured. The endothelium lifts off of the stroma, and then you have a fluid pocket, like a little water balloon, between the endothelium and the rest of the blood vessel wall. Oxygen can't diffuse through that. In fact, if the same thing is happening in the rest of the organs, guess what? It will prevent oxygen from leaving the capillaries and oxygenating tissues, too.

But we've known SARS can do this for over a decade.

I mean, it's not like I haven't been poring over papers for hundreds of hours and everything.

Pathology and Pathogenesis of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome

Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is an emerging infectious viral disease characterized by severe clinical manifestations of the lower respiratory tract. The pathogenesis of SARS is highly complex, with multiple factors leading to severe injury ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From the Johns Hopkins map:

COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)

coronavirus.jhu.edu

Almost 7% is the case fatality rate among the currently known cases. The number of cases China alleges is so small now, it's basically a statistical blip. Even if you cut out all of the Chinese cases and deaths, the case fatality rate only changes from 6.95% to 6.99%. It's not even remotely believable that there have only been 84,000 cases in China, by the way. It's in the millions, guaranteed.

One thing that's important to keep in mind is that of those 3 million cases of this virus, many are still in the hospital and they're still fighting for their lives. We won't know if they will die or recover.

If, for instance, this pandemic were to stop immediately, and no new cases were to occur, and then we waited a month, and another 100,000 people died before the rest started recovering, the case fatality rate would be around 10%. You have to take into account the lag effect.

A 7% case fatality rate tracks with SARS, which had a CFR of around 9.5%. This virus is very, very similar to SARS, so the idea that it would be significantly less lethal than SARS is mostly just wishful thinking.

Here, a new article that was just published that describes the pathogenesis of COVID-19:

COVID-19: towards understanding of pathogenesis - Cell Research

www.nature.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009787

This virus causes major clotting. Look at that 44-year-old patient with the undiagnosed diabetes. D-dimer of 13,800 ng/ml. That patient's blood is chunks.



No, I mentioned that. You're talking about the study in Santa Clara, right? Those serological studies are misleading, because they didn't correct for the inherent false positive rate of those antibody tests. Literally all of their results could be explained by false positives. It is entirely possible that next to none of the people they tested were previously infected.

Consumer Beware: Coronavirus Antibody Tests Are Still A Work In Progress - KFF Health News

Public officials are putting high hopes on new blood tests as a means of determining who has developed antibodies to COVID-19, and with those antibodies, presumed immunity. But experts caution the tests are largely unreliable and the science is still catching up.

khn.org

Testing the Tests: COVID-19 Antibody Assays Scrutinized for Accuracy by UCSF, UC Berkeley Researchers

A project launched by UC San Francisco and UC Berkeley scientists evaluated some of the more than 120 available antibody test kits.

www.ucsf.edu

That "50 to 80 times higher" figure is pretty much just false hope at this point.

So if I was to go and ask my buddies I have back in the states who are forst line doctors...they wouldnt know about these?

Also fun little question, if it is apperently very infective and can be very very bad and has a 6% fatality rate..
How come in the military base I am on in Korea, we had I think 4 confirmed cases on the base, maybe 6. Woth no deaths.
Wanna know something? The military has found out most Soldiers (Army) happen to be asymptomatic of it, as they are finding out from testing of soldiers who had said they never felt any symptoms..and that is a whole lot of them.

Explain to me how a whole base could have so few when we were not taking the same measures as the rest of the world..
Perhaps it is because people in good health are less likely to be affected.

You keep saying how bad it is, and you also do not account for those Asymptomatic that never went and got tested because they never knew.

You are doommongering again.
You always present major things you think are break through, but as KF showed, this is only in extreme examples, and these things happen with other diseases as well.

 

[Zachowon]

Case fatality rate should not be confused with infection fatality rate. Not all infections become cases. The true infection fatality rate of this disease has been estimated at about 0.5 to 3%, with most figures settling on around 1.4%. In order to be counted as a "case", someone usually has to be hospitalized. Most people who get this will just think they had a bad flu and won't think very much of it at all.

It's important to keep in mind that the Spanish Flu also had an absolute mortality rate of about 1 to 3%, but it killed tens of millions of people, and that's because it spread very, very quickly and there was no immunity to it, because the human body had never encountered it before. Same thing with this.

So I should not pay attention to the amount of recovery cases? The anti body tests? Tomorrow I will probably post a video of some doctors telling some facts, and the video was removed from youtube and facebook..

 

[Duke Nukem]

@Reveille Please calm down I agree with what your saying but the mods don't, I don't want to see you get permabanned off this thread.

 

[Harlock]

They didn't do jack shit.

Altistic Right said that I was "confusing RCFR with CFR".

There is no such thing as "Resolved Case Fatality Rate". That's a made-up term. There is only the Case Fatality Rate.

If you cut out China's clearly false figures and then add the number of dead to the number of recovered and then divide by the number of dead, the figure that you end up with is a case fatality rate of 19.8%.

If you take all the resolved and ongoing cases and divide by the number of dead, you end up with a case fatality rate of about 7%.

Notice the disparity there? It's because out of the 3+ million ongoing cases, you don't know who's going to live and who's going to die.

These grim figures are corroborated by peer-reviewed research in The Lancet.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30195-X/fulltext

Evrae's argument, essentially, was that I was saying the virus was causing tissue damage when really, it was the cytokine storm that was responsible. Well, that raises the question; what's the cause of the cytokine storm, if it weren't for the virus triggering it?

Evrae also said that I "jumped the gun" and "skimmed the abstracts" without critically evaluating each scientific article on SARS and COVID-19 pathology. This is also false. I spent hundreds of hours going over every single feature of this disease in exhaustive, excruciating detail, sacrificing both sleep and my own sanity to find out what this virus is and what it does.

I spent so much time on this, I actually wrote my own review of the scientific literature on this virus, one that cites 72 papers on COVID-19. This is the latest draft of it:

Assessment of the pathophysiological properties of COVID-19 as a multi-organ disease

If you think that I'm exaggerating in any way, then please, by all means, feel free to read my sources:



The rest of them "blowing me out" was literally nothing but pointless ad hominem attacks and assaults on my credibility that were completely fallacious and had nothing to do with the validity of my arguments whatsoever. Who the fuck cares what fanfics I read and what hentai I watch? As if that has fuck-all to do with what's happening now.

This is not "doom posting". This is what the science on this virus is actually saying.

I can't help it if people want a rosier picture of this, because there isn't one. We have to be very, very cautious.

You're thinking word salad is going to help you, that linking to all these studies will tell me something I don't already know. I already told you I did chemistry at college so I understand how to apply scientific method here, you're taking too much on faith and hoping that if you just spam somebody else's work we'll just take it as fact.

Without context, without larger sample sizes, without an accurate set of figures on total infections (Which is likely years away) All you have is possibilities, and possibilities without percentages is nothing. Any virus can do most of these things, what matters is how often and you don't have those figures because they don't yet exist.

Deny it if you wish but much smarter people have ripped you down far less politely than anyone here has. We tried to nudge you towards how you can improve your assessments and you ignored us, then you ignored the far less polite Kiwis telling you in even greater detail the same flaws.

If you aren't going to learn from those experiences then you aren't going to learn. At which point we have to consider options to stop you turning this thread into a showcase for your incomplete studies presented as gospel, which they aren't.

I can appreciate your position, but as staff we must consider the health of this forum in general and how much effort people are wasting countering your incomplete presentations. We like free speech so I'm not thrilled about just dumping you out but you are doing fuck and all to work with us on this.

We're looking at options, perhaps a thread of your own and preserving this one for pure news may be the path forward.

 

[Duke Nukem]

You're thinking word salad is going to help you, that linking to all these studies will tell me something I don't already know. I already told you I did chemistry at college so I understand how to apply scientific method here, you're taking too much on faith and hoping that if you just spam somebody else's work we'll just take it as fact.

Without context, without larger sample sizes, without an accurate set of figures on total infections (Which is likely years away) All you have is possibilities, and possibilities without percentages is nothing. Any virus can do most of these things, what matters is how often and you don't have those figures because they don't yet exist.

Deny it if you wish but much smarter people have ripped you down far less politely than anyone here has. We tried to nudge you towards how you can improve your assessments and you ignored us, then you ignored the far less polite Kiwis telling you in even greater detail the same flaws.

If you aren't going to learn from those experiences then you aren't going to learn. At which point we have to consider options to stop you turning this thread into a showcase for your incomplete studies presented as gospel, which they aren't.

I can appreciate your position, but as staff we must consider the health of this forum in general and how much effort people are wasting countering your incomplete presentations. We like free speech so I'm not thrilled about just dumping you out but you are doing fuck and all to work with us on this.

We're looking at options, perhaps a thread of your own and preserving this one for pure news may be the path forward.

Yeah that probably be best

@Reveille that's what you could do just make your own thread that has your research in it.

 

[LordSunhawk]

The Boot has created a new thread titled "Reveille's Wuhan Virus Data Repository " in the NSFW Politics subforum and has moved all of Reveille's posts concerning the virus there. That thread is not under zero tolerance rules, normal rules will apply. This thread will remain for actual information about the virus. Reveille's speculation and information will be confined to his own thread.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Pompeo Says ‘Enormous Evidence’ Connects Virus to Wuhan Lab

So interesting times ahead. A containment breach being the actual cause, giving all of China's lying and other antics, will make geopolitics "fun" for a while.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Pompeo Says ‘Enormous Evidence’ Connects Virus to Wuhan Lab

So interesting times ahead. A containment breach being the actual cause, giving all of China's lying and other antics, will make geopolitics "fun" for a while.

So basically the same thing we were saying 4 fucking months ago? The same thing people were calling us crazy conspiracy theorists for?

 

[Isem]

So, one coronavirus policy from New York that's currently catching a lot of flak is governor Cuomo's order that nursing homes be forced to take in old people who had been infected with coronavirus even if that meant putting them in contact with other old and vulnerable people and in spite of said nursing homes being under equipped to handle such cases rather then having anywhere else take them in with the predictable result that the disease spread like wildfire there. Some 4,968 people have been confirmed as having died as a result of this policy and there may be more unconfirmed deaths as a result of this.

How Cuomo's 'special effort' for nursing homes exacerbated coronavirus cases: 'They die alone. You can't have a proper send-off'

Deaths in NY nursing homes skyrocket following policy that forces care centers to take in patients with COVID-19.

www.foxnews.com

 

[MelancholicMechanicus]

After over a month claiming calling Covid-19 "The Chinese Virus" was racist. we now have some pretty high ranking Democrats calling it "European Virus" which doesn't even make sense.

 

[Scottty]

So, one coronavirus policy from New York that's currently catching a lot of flak is governor Cuomo's order that nursing homes be forced to take in old people who had been infected with coronavirus even if that meant putting them in contact with other old and vulnerable people and in spite of said nursing homes being under equipped to handle such cases rather then having anywhere else take them in with the predictable result that the disease spread like wildfire there. Some 4,968 people have been confirmed as having died as a result of this policy and there may be more unconfirmed deaths as a result of this.

That man should be held personally accountable for those 4,968 deaths.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

That man should be held personally accountable for those 4,968 deaths.

Hmmm wouldn't the punishment for that be either life in prison without parole or death.

 

[Isem]

After over a month claiming calling Covid-19 "The Chinese Virus" was racist. we now have some pretty high ranking Democrats calling it "European Virus" which doesn't even make sense.

You know, times like this I really wish we had a confused emote because this is just confusing as fuck. Like I get he's trying to start something to draw attention away from his nursing home disaster and wants to draw the blame away from China but calling it the European virus just doesn't make sense and makes him look like an idiot even if the press will try to back him up.

 

[Lanmandragon]

You know, times like this I really wish we had a confused emote because this is just confusing as fuck. Like I get he's trying to start something to draw attention away from his nursing home disaster and wants to draw the blame away from China but calling it the European virus just doesn't make sense and makes him look like an idiot even if the press will try to back him up.

Sure it does because pre I ternet the media backing meant they could say anything. Alot of them still don't realize that's not the case anymore.

 

[Duke Nukem]

After over a month claiming calling Covid-19 "The Chinese Virus" was racist. we now have some pretty high ranking Democrats calling it "European Virus" which doesn't even make sense.

How much you guys wanna bet SJW's will say thats completely fine?

 

[Cherico]

Commo has made some serious enemies during this crisis ones that will come back to haunt him next election.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Found something interesting:

Males with low testosterone levels are MORE likely to die of COVID-19

Researchers assessed the hormone levels of the first 45 laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 patients who were admitted to the ICU at the University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Male coronavirus patients with low testosterone levels are MORE likely to die from COVID-19, German hospital finds

German hospital assessed the hormone levels of 45 COVID-19 patients in ICU

Found that the vast majority of men admitted had low testosterone levels

Testosterone may be able to stop the body's immune system from going haywire

Low levels of the sex hormone are unable to regulate the body's immune response, leading to a 'cytokine storm' which can be fatal

So Testosterone is good for you and yet just some time ago, they said the below.

Can Estrogen and Other Sex Hormones Help Men Survive Covid-19? (Published 2020)

Men are more likely than women to die of the coronavirus, so scientists are treating them with something women have more of: female sex hormones.

www.nytimes.com

Men are more likely than women to die of the coronavirus, so scientists are treating them with something women have more of: female sex hormones.

Aka lower Testosterone which if we go with above leads to more men dying.

What did they mean by this 🤔 ?

What do you think @Terthna ?

Are the elites trying to kill off men?

 

[Terthna]

Found something interesting:

Males with low testosterone levels are MORE likely to die of COVID-19

Researchers assessed the hormone levels of the first 45 laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 patients who were admitted to the ICU at the University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Male coronavirus patients with low testosterone levels are MORE likely to die from COVID-19, German hospital finds



So Testosterone is good for you and yet just some time ago, they said the below.

Can Estrogen and Other Sex Hormones Help Men Survive Covid-19? (Published 2020)

Men are more likely than women to die of the coronavirus, so scientists are treating them with something women have more of: female sex hormones.

www.nytimes.com

Aka lower Testosterone which if we go with above leads to more men dying.

What did they mean by this 🤔 ?

What do you think @Terthna ?

Are the elites trying to kill off men?

Not sure why you're asking me, but honestly it just sounds like they have no idea what the heck to do about the Corona virus, and are latching on to anything and everything that might make them look like they do. In other works, they're quacks.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Not sure why you're asking me, but honestly it just sounds like they have no idea what the heck to do about the Corona virus, and are latching on to anything and everything that might make them look like they do. In other works, they're quacks.

I consider you to be the level headed one compared to my conspiracy everywhere seeing self.

See, there have been articles saying how women are superior cause of Covid and how more men die and men are weak and then they proposed pumping men with Esterogen and yet what men really need is testosterone which is declining. Hence why I see conspiracy.

Hence I wanted to hear what was your take on this.