China Wuhan Virus Pandemic

Abhorsen

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Osaul
You can call the checks a payroll tax holiday, you can call it limited UBI, you can bitch and moan about possible inflation issues.

None of that matters to people who find themselves suddenly unemployed through no fault of their own. A lot of Americans still live paycheck to paycheck, and thus do not have time to worry about macro-economic concerns that might, might manifest months from now, if at all.
There is a very big difference between the two. A payroll tax won't help people who can't work right now who do live paycheck to paycheck, because they aren't getting any hours right now. A UBI will.

As for the inflation issues, the problem is that inflation didn't come with anything good, so it was all bad. Let me explain.

Almost all recessions are caused by a demand shock, where people stop buying as much as they used to. This includes the Great Depression, the great recession, dot-com bubble, etc. Basically, a bunch of companies go belly up and people are scared they will lose their jobs, so stop spending, creating an excess supply. The solution, using Keynesian economics, is for the government to spend instead of the people, and buy up the excess supply.

But we aren't in a demand shock, but a supply shock. In a supply shock, the entire economy stops producing as much as it used to because there is some disruption in the supply chain. In the 70s, it was the Oil Embargo. Now, it's corona stopping people from working. If the government tries to buy it's way out of the recession using Keynesian economics, there isn't an excess supply for them to buy, there's a supply shortage. So there's nothing extra for them to buy, so when they buy stuff, the supply shortage gets even worse. This is what happened during the oil embargo, as the Fed had no idea this was a thing and acted like it was a normal recession. This helped no one, and lead to high, sudden inflation. This high, sudden inflation is killer to banks as suddenly mortgages earning 3% a year are inflating away at 8%, and lead to thousands of banks going bankrupt. And those banks offering loans is what is going to keep many companies in business during this time.

tl;dr: When I warn of inflation, I'm not going all Austrian Economics in a crisis. I'm trying to people advocating we shoot ourselves in the foot when we need to be running.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
I have been noticing in the news and across the internet people saying South Korea and Singapore got a handle on the Virus why not the US......... Do these people not know the size difference between the US and those two nations. One is the size of a Continent practically. While the other two are small and very small. Scale means something in this world and people need to realize that.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder

The rich panic buying version of a pandemic.
And the picture is of dialysis machines, not ventilators, for extra irony.
There is a very big difference between the two. A payroll tax won't help people who can't work right now who do live paycheck to paycheck, because they aren't getting any hours right now. A UBI will.

As for the inflation issues, the problem is that inflation didn't come with anything good, so it was all bad. Let me explain.

Almost all recessions are caused by a demand shock, where people stop buying as much as they used to. This includes the Great Depression, the great recession, dot-com bubble, etc. Basically, a bunch of companies go belly up and people are scared they will lose their jobs, so stop spending, creating an excess supply. The solution, using Keynesian economics, is for the government to spend instead of the people, and buy up the excess supply.

But we aren't in a demand shock, but a supply shock. In a supply shock, the entire economy stops producing as much as it used to because there is some disruption in the supply chain. In the 70s, it was the Oil Embargo. Now, it's corona stopping people from working. If the government tries to buy it's way out of the recession using Keynesian economics, there isn't an excess supply for them to buy, there's a supply shortage. So there's nothing extra for them to buy, so when they buy stuff, the supply shortage gets even worse. This is what happened during the oil embargo, as the Fed had no idea this was a thing and acted like it was a normal recession. This helped no one, and lead to high, sudden inflation. This high, sudden inflation is killer to banks as suddenly mortgages earning 3% a year are inflating away at 8%, and lead to thousands of banks going bankrupt. And those banks offering loans is what is going to keep many companies in business during this time.

tl;dr: When I warn of inflation, I'm not going all Austrian Economics in a crisis. I'm trying to people advocating we shoot ourselves in the foot when we need to be running.
Which is why it is coupled with the Defense Production Act. If goods get too short in supply, companies can be forced (though most are doing it voluntarily) to retool production lines to meet that demand.

The main things running short right now are things that are needed in the medical field, that aren't everyday essentials. Demand for toliet paper and other goods are under strain, but are still coming in, and shotages there are mostly at local levels that can be alievated through rationing. The store I work at has set limits on how many of certain products people can buy on a given day, to keep the shortage from being made worse by hoarders and price gouging.

The money being sent out is to allow people to get the basic necessities and keep paying the bills.

Quibbling over what to call the assistance just seems rather...petty at this juncture, which is what I was really trying to get at.
I have been noticing in the news and across the internet people saying South Korea and Singapore got a handle on the Virus why not the US......... Do these people not know the size difference between the US and those two nations. One is the size of a Continent practically. While the other two are small and very small. Scale means something in this world and people need to realize that.
Most of the world doesn't seem to get, or simply doesn't care about, the differences and difficulties that come with being a continent sized country.
 
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Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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There is a very big difference between the two. A payroll tax won't help people who can't work right now who do live paycheck to paycheck, because they aren't getting any hours right now. A UBI will.
Note where I said a payroll tax holiday after the crisis ends. Not right now. Right now it is pointless, straight up giving people money is a better method of solving the issue. Once the crisis ends, however, you want to get people back to work, allow them to rebuild buffers, and allow them to clear the debts that they incurred from the stoppage.

Not to mention you want them flush with cash so as to stimulate purchasing and rehires.

tl;dr: When I warn of inflation, I'm not going all Austrian Economics in a crisis. I'm trying to people advocating we shoot ourselves in the foot when we need to be running.
Very different worlds then and now. Inflation isn't going to be an issue, and honestly just straight up printing free money is probably a decent idea for the US at the moment. Demand for dollars is extreme at the moment and will be for the near to middle term future, that makes the dollar stronger relative to other currencies and thus makes imports cheaper and US exports less competitive.

The US needs to weaken the dollar vis a vi the worlds other currencies, and just straight up printing a few trillion dollars and dumping them into the domestic US economy would be a decent method of doing that.
 

Abhorsen

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Note where I said a payroll tax holiday after the crisis ends. Not right now. Right now it is pointless, straight up giving people money is a better method of solving the issue
Whoops, I must have missed the 'after' part of this.

Not to mention you want them flush with cash so as to stimulate purchasing and rehires.
This isn't necessary. Much of a supply shock recession self corrects by itself. Further going into debt to fix the last little bit isn't worth it, but it will probably happen for political considerations. I would still be mostly against this.

Quibbling over what to call the assistance just seems rather...petty at this juncture, which is what I was really trying to get at.
We weren't quibbling over what to call it, but how to do it. Turns out we were talking past each other somewhat.

As for the Defense production act, this will help solve the crisis with Corona, but won't solve the supply shock to the economy. Most business can't retool to work on something relevant, and most workers should stay home.
 

Duke Nukem

Hail to the king baby
These leftist's are fucking psychotic .

ksc42fq1wbn41.png
 

Duke Nukem

Hail to the king baby
(Eco)fascism?

i don't know what the hell that is, but here is a definition

Ecofascism is a theoretical political model in which an authoritarian government would require individuals to sacrifice their own interests to the "organic whole of nature". The term is also used as a rhetorical pejorative to undermine the environmental movement.
 
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The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
Oh wow. Watch this.





Look, all I want is Mount & Blade II single player, goddammit. Fuck everything else. I waited 8 fucking years! 8 YEARS!

EDIT: OH MY GOOOOOOOD! HEEEEEEERE WE GOOOOOOO!

TRUMP RETWEETED A THREAD ON TWITTER THAT MICHAEL COUDREY MADE FROM MY REPORT!




THIS MADE BLUE CHECKMARKS WIG OUT! "WHO IS THIS TRAIN DODGER!?!?!?!?"





I'LL TELL YOU WHO I AM. I'M THE FUCKER WHO POSTED THAT VID OF ME MOCKING THOSE DIPSHIT CELEBS RIGHT ON MY TWITTER FEED.

WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT NOW.



VICTORY.

VICTORY AT LAST.


You might be wondering if they learned their lesson.

The answer is no.


No they didn't.
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
It’s gonna be a problem if there’s not enough supply to go around for people with money to even buy even if they had the money
Which is why a local owner if they're socially aware will dictate the rules on how much people buy to ensure adequate distribution.
 

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