"Woke" Franchises

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Well of course people like all sorts of things I don't like. I have no interest in watching most anime but while it's not my particular taste, I never maligned the whole genre as crap. Just not something I'm into. I certainly wouldn't be presumptuous enough to simply state my opinion as fact without substantiation. But when I shitpost, it tends to be positive and civil as opposed to needlessly trollish drivel.
No... it's quite clear all anime is shit... look at how it has all failed in the marketplace both in Japan and abroad.
Imagine being so small that you not only cant interact directly with someone on the internet, but insist on constantly whining from the sidelines and sniping. Your straw men could not threaten me in the slightest.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Okay, that said I'll now go back to waiting for Date A Live V22 to be translated to english

Say, I'm watching Primal Season 2 right now



Any chance if it'll go WOKE? Not sure about Genndy Tartakovsky's politics, but if he leans Left, I think he can somehow make it go WOKE even if this' a setting with no dialogue or much in-terms of people or things to use as societal analogies


I'm only familiar with his early Clone Wars work. But he was also involved in Dexters Laboratory IIRC and I don't recall hearing anything about that.

But wait a minute.

*googles "Dexters Laboratory Controversy"*


Oh looks like it's pro-cannabis, sex workers and cross dressing. 😢

:p

But seriously...

Okay, point is we all have our likes even if they are crap, they at least sell

That said, any idea if Genndy Tarkavosky’s WOKE?

No I doubt he's all that woke at all or at least not anymore then any other random dude in the business. But I haven't seen his Primal series yet. Not much into cartoons in general either. Though I am watching more of them via osmosis. But we haven't progressed beyond Paw Patrol and Peppa Pig and let me tell you, the latter show is super anti-woke... especially in the Islamic World. ;)
 

Abhorsen

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Slight irony, I don't think the WOKEtivists even put much effort into the things they make
Excuse me, while I post good 'woke' media, i.e. media that happens to be woke, but isn't designed to be shoving it down your throat.

Harley Quinn the animated series (paywalled, but a free trial for binge watching, which is definitely worth it). Definitely worth a watch, it's everything the movie could have been but failed at. Why it's woke and why it's good:
It captures the essence of Harley Quinn: She's in an abusive relationship, she's defined by her relationship with Joker, and she's a really competent psychologist (some of the best scenes are her psychoanalyzing people to win). It depicts how her world revolves around the Joker very well, even after the break-up, and the show is about her trying to escape his control over her life.

The other nice thing is that it keeps Harley Quinn evil, and it doesn't shy away from this. She's trying to make it big in the League of Doom, she kills people for little good reason, etc. More, it even has her make mistakes, put her goals in front of her friends goals, etc. She's a flawed character that is well depicted, with her having strengths and weaknesses, and it isn't some stupid female power fantasy.

It also has a feminist undertone, but not in an anvilicious/flanderized/all men are evil sorta thing. Even Poison Ivy isn't just a man hating person in this (she's actually in a really cute relationship with an incompetent male villain), which is a nice change. Sure, some of characters hate women. But those characters are also mass murderers and super villains, so no duh some of them hate women. Meanwhile, the actually good characters (Batman and Gordon) clearly don't hate women, because of course they don't: they are good people.

Other fun stuff that's woke:
The Boondocks. Very woke, but also pokes fun at itself constantly.
Contrapoints. Great insight into the progressive mindset. I disagree with her on nearly everything, but it is very informative.
Any other recommendations?

All that requires is that objective value isn't universally appreciated, combined with context requiring different resources.

Contextual market value is not the same thing as subjectivism as a philosophy, and the attempt to conflate the two is a ridiculous and meaningless word game.
It's literally called the subjective theory of value. Because people don't have objective values of things, they have subjective values of things, and that's what they base their purchases on. And that is what economists care about. It's not even context dependent. A book to a book seller is worth somewhere between what they bought it for and what they sold it for. But for the buyer, it could be priceless trove of fond memories. That's why prices are subjective.

Probably should open up another thread if you want to continue. @ me if you do.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Oh looks like it's pro-cannabis, sex workers and cross dressing. 😢

:p

Not WOKE enough

Excuse me, while I post good 'woke' media, i.e. media that happens to be woke, but isn't designed to be shoving it down your throat.

Harley Quinn the animated series (paywalled, but a free trial for binge watching, which is definitely worth it). Definitely worth a watch, it's everything the movie could have been but failed at. Why it's woke and why it's good:

Okay

That said, I think the Cinematic Live Action stuff will probably die soon
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
It's literally called the subjective theory of value. Because people don't have objective values of things, they have subjective values of things, and that's what they base their purchases on. And that is what economists care about. It's not even context dependent. A book to a book seller is worth somewhere between what they bought it for and what they sold it for. But for the buyer, it could be priceless trove of fond memories. That's why prices are subjective.
"People buy water more when they're thirsty, therefore theres no such thing as bad TV shows" has got to be the most bizarre attempt at apologia I've heard in a while.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Excuse me, while I post good 'woke' media, i.e. media that happens to be woke, but isn't designed to be shoving it down your throat.

Other fun stuff that's woke:
The Boondocks. Very woke, but also pokes fun at itself constantly.

The Boondocks, I've never sat down and watched an episode but I've seen the clips on YouTube... even beyond the one MLK one that's kind of out of context with the rest of the episode. It's definitely good satire from what I've seen. And of course I've seen the comic strips every so often. Decent stuff.

Contrapoints. Great insight into the progressive mindset. I disagree with her on nearly everything, but it is very informative.
Any other recommendations?

Yeah, can't really stand her for some reason. I know others like her. There is a Breadtuber who I have seen some videos of... Sarah Z.


Oddly enough the only reason I found out about her was because I remember seeing something about a PewDiePie controversy in recommending a NAZI/Alt Right video channel so I decided to check out the PDP video because I'm all about that and one of the recommendations was the Sarah Z channel, specifically her Harry Potter/JK Rowling critique... which I promptly watched the first minute of... realized I didn't care and went to see her other videos which seemed decidedly more left leaning and politically toned. Still interesting enough for me to watch as background noise.

Off the top of my head... as Woke media goes... Supergirl was something I watched and mostly enjoyed... at least for two seasons before losing interest. It had some very strong wishy washy messages and themes and while it got pretty hokey at times, even eyeroll inducing... it was such a softball pitch that it never felt forced or too tryhard.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Say, does BEASTARS count as being WOKE?

So far as I’ve read, they make it a point that you can’t just expect things to be alright just by being tolerant and that carnivores have actual biological differences
 

Abhorsen

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"People buy water more when they're thirsty, therefore theres no such thing as bad TV shows" has got to be the most bizarre attempt at apologia I've heard in a while.
Not actually what I'm claiming. You can say that a segment of the population has shit taste, or you can point out that something doesn't sell well, and hence the stuff is shit. But subjectivity is how humans actually interact with the world. Different people value things differently, and neither of them are wrong. If I have an emotional story about a rock, that might greatly increase its value to me, but not affect you at all. That doesn't make me or you wrong about its value.

I'm saying that subjective value is what happens in economics reality, and is the principle of which much of economics is based on. If you want objective theories of value, ask the communists, who keep there logic with their bread.
The Boondocks, I've never sat down and watched an episode but I've seen the clips on YouTube... even beyond the one MLK one that's kind of out of context with the rest of the episode. It's definitely good satire from what I've seen. And of course I've seen the comic strips every so often. Decent stuff.
The Boondocks are definitely worth it, and it's a great time to bingewatch. Very woke, but also very funny.
Yeah, can't really stand her for some reason. I know others like her. There is a Breadtuber who I have seen some videos of... Sarah Z.
I'll check her out. But I do like contrapoints campiness. The outfits are amazing, but probably not for everyone.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
The Boondocks are definitely worth it, and it's a great time to bingewatch. Very woke, but also very funny.

I heard that its quality goes down after its 2nd or 3rd season

That said, watched it but not really interested in it besides a few laughs

Also, any explanation as to how the creator looks to have a slight hate boner for Rosa Parks? I doubt many people would have realised that she had connections and was planned in order to work
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Not actually what I'm claiming.
Like it or not it's the ground you've decided to defend.

You can say that a segment of the population has shit taste, or you can point out that something doesn't sell well, and hence the stuff is shit. But subjectivity is how humans actually interact with the world. Different people value things differently, and neither of them are wrong. If I have an emotional story about a rock, that might greatly increase its value to me, but not affect you at all. That doesn't make me or you wrong about its value.
Completely meaningless. If people have shit taste, they're wrong about what they like. No amount of people deluding themselves into thinking eating feces is a good thing actually makes it true. No amount of sales makes Twilight a good story, no amount of votes makes genocidal death camps acceptable. No amount of supposedly earnest belief that shooting a baby is good makes it so. There is correct, and there is incorrect. To say that most people operate under some level of delusion is not to assert that the delusions are "true".
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Completely meaningless. If people have shit taste, they're wrong about what they like. No amount of people deluding themselves into thinking eating feces is a good thing actually makes it true. No amount of sales makes Twilight a good story, no amount of votes makes genocidal death camps acceptable. No amount of supposedly earnest belief that shooting a baby is good makes it so. There is correct, and there is incorrect. To say that most people operate under some level of delusion is not to assert that the delusions are "true".

Okay, that I can agree, but again at the very least they show they put their money where their mouths are

If you're part of those invading cliques that say you like this "Nerd Culture" but don't really read, play, watch, listen to and know about the stuff, you know something is a financial failure

Guess that's how all those WOKEtivists in charge think that their crap smells like gold, they themselves spent all the time digesting and slowly popping it out. It's not their fault that everybody else doesn't share the same digestive tract

Man, in a way they’re a twisted version of “art for the sake of art” or “I’m doing it for myself”
 
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Abhorsen

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Like it or not it's the ground you've decided to defend.
Nope, I never claimed that. You are strawmanning me/putting words in my mouth. What I actually said:
Oddly enough, the subjective nature of value is why the free market assigns prices correctly and socialists can't. Not so much of a cancer now, is it?
they're wrong about what they like
Lol. Either they like it or they don't. You can't be wrong about what you like.
No amount of people deluding themselves into thinking eating feces is a good thing actually makes it true.
A certain coffee bean says otherwise. Maybe you don't like the taste, but others do.
No amount of sales makes Twilight a good story
From the perspective of sales, it was great, which is what I was talking about. From the perspective of people who read and enjoyed it, it was good.
no amount of votes makes genocidal death camps acceptable
Those votes means that the camps are acceptable to the people who voted for it, so it sorta does, it's just not moral. Really bad choice of words there. Maybe you were looking for not acceptable to you? Almost like 'acceptable' might be.... Subjective?
No amount of supposedly earnest belief that shooting a baby is good makes it so.
You can make an argument for Hitler, but I'll leave you this.

Man, it's almost like humans make judgements based on subjective knowledge, and there is no real value to most things (outside of math, science, and maybe morality). People value things differently because they have different priorities. That's what subjectivity means. That's all I'm defending.

To bring this around to Woke Franchises, it turns out Hollywood valued wokeness more than mainstream america, and paid the price for it.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Say, anybody remember the problem that occurred with Goblin Slayer months ago?

I only read the Light Novel, not the manga and anime

But I think if they enter Japan, they might go after the Light Novel writers eventually, though they might not even be aware that LN’s a thing
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Okay, that I can agree, but again at the very least they show they put their money where their mouths are

If you're part of those invading cliques that say you like this "Nerd Culture" but don't really read, play, watch, listen to and know about the stuff, you know something is a financial failure

Guess that's how all those WOKEtivists in charge think that their crap smells like gold, they themselves spent all the time digesting and slowly popping it out. It's not their fault that everybody else doesn't share the same digestive tract

With films it'd be interesting to just lay out just how successful or how failed these Woke pop culture movies have been in the box office. I mentioned it earlier but couldn't be bothered at the time to go to Wikipedia and look up things. But... if we go by the very simplified rule of... if a movie makes twice it's budget then it's a success, then off the top of my head...

Ghostbusters (2016): 229m Box Office - 144m Budget x2 = 59m loss
Oceans 8 (2018): 298m Box Office - 70m Budget x2 = 158m gain
A Wrinkle in Time: 133m Box office - 130 m Budget x2 = 127m loss
Terminator: Dark Fate: 261m Box Office - 196m Budget x2 = 131m loss
Charlie's Angels: 73m Box Office - 50m Budget x2 = 27m loss
Men In Black International: 254m Box Office - 110m Budget x2 = 34m gain
The Hustle: 98m Box Office - 21m Budget x2 = 56m gain
Birds of Prey: 202m Box Office - 100m Budgetx2 = 2m gain

Now it's a super imprecise measuring stick just doubling the budget since marketing for some movies and hidden production costs can dramatically shift... for example MIB is considered a box office disappointment with some analysts stating it would've had to make 300 million to break even... but I wanted to be consistent.

Plus there's the fact that Disney's most "Woke" movies have all been billion dollar successes... Captain Marvel, Black Panther and most notably to me Star Wars: The Last Jedi (though in the latter case the franchise on film seems to have been dealt a rather serious blow for future film potential).

Still... just glancing at the numbers... unless your part of a major, major franchise (ie MCU or Star Wars) which has a billion dollar captive audience (though I liked both Black Panther and Captain Marvel just fine)... things can be pretty chancy when it comes to releasing films. The most successful ones so far seem to have hovered in the 200-300 million box office range almost regardless of budget.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
With films it'd be interesting to just lay out just how successful or how failed these Woke pop culture movies have been in the box office. I mentioned it earlier but couldn't be bothered at the time to go to Wikipedia and look up things. But... if we go by the very simplified rule of... if a movie makes twice it's budget then it's a success, then off the top of my head...

Ghostbusters (2016): 229m Box Office - 144m Budget x2 = 59m loss
Oceans 8 (2018): 298m Box Office - 70m Budget x2 = 158m gain
A Wrinkle in Time: 133m Box office - 130 m Budget x2 = 127m loss
Terminator: Dark Fate: 261m Box Office - 196m Budget x2 = 131m loss
Charlie's Angels: 73m Box Office - 50m Budget x2 = 27m loss
Men In Black International: 254m Box Office - 110m Budget x2 = 34m gain
The Hustle: 98m Box Office - 21m Budget x2 = 56m gain
Birds of Prey: 202m Box Office - 100m Budgetx2 = 2m gain

Now it's a super imprecise measuring stick just doubling the budget since marketing for some movies and hidden production costs can dramatically shift... for example MIB is considered a box office disappointment with some analysts stating it would've had to make 300 million to break even... but I wanted to be consistent.

Plus there's the fact that Disney's most "Woke" movies have all been billion dollar successes... Captain Marvel, Black Panther and most notably to me Star Wars: The Last Jedi (though in the latter case the franchise on film seems to have been dealt a rather serious blow for future film potential).

Still... just glancing at the numbers... unless your part of a major, major franchise (ie MCU or Star Wars) which has a billion dollar captive audience (though I liked both Black Panther and Captain Marvel just fine)... things can be pretty chancy when it comes to releasing films. The most successful ones so far seem to have hovered in the 200-300 million box office range almost regardless of budget.

I think I mentioned it myself before, so kinda why they go with “legacies” or “reboots” or “remakes” or take over somebody else’s work and so on

SJW types have more success or attention if they’re using an established franchise like the MCU where a lot of people watch every movie and see how/if they tie-in to one another

Also helps that the MCU was WAY more popular and better than the DCEU and produces more movies in a relatively short amount of time
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Nope, I never claimed that. You are strawmanning me/putting words in my mouth. What I actually said:
You cited the fact that people require different things at different levels of demand as evidence that there are no objective values, which is insane.

Lol. Either they like it or they don't. You can't be wrong about what you like.
Yes you can. It's wrong to like eating children, it's wrong to like eating shit.

A certain coffee bean says otherwise. Maybe you don't like the taste, but others do.
All you have is meaningless, pedantic word games, then? If an elephant were to pass a steel ingot through it's bowels, I suppose you'd insist that anything forged out of the ingot was made of shit? We've reached peak bad faith with that silly comment.

From the perspective of sales, it was great, which is what I was talking about. From the perspective of people who read and enjoyed it, it was good.
And from the perspective of objective quality, it's dogshit. Plenty of people might have incorrect, stupid feelings about twilight being good, but this is because they're stupid, not because Twilight is good.

Those votes means that the camps are acceptable to the people who voted for it, so it sorta does, it's just not moral.
"It's just not moral" Mr. subjectivist, you cant use that phrase and expect me to keep a straight face.

Man, it's almost like humans make judgements based on subjective knowledge, and there is no real value to most things (outside of math, science, and maybe morality). People value things differently because they have different priorities. That's what subjectivity means. That's all I'm defending.
What a meaninglessly nihilistic and empty worldview you chose to defend, in perfect alignment with Post Modern nonsense. Values do not arise from nothing, they are not arbitrary.
 

Abhorsen

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I think I mentioned it myself before, so kinda why they go with “legacies” or “reboots” or “remakes” or take over somebody else’s work and so on

SJW types have more success or attention if they’re using an established franchise like the MCU where a lot of people watch every movie and see how/if they tie-in to one another

Also helps that the MCU was WAY more popular and better than the DCEU and produces more movies in a relatively short amount of time
I wouldn't say that's unique to woke films, just bad films. The problem with bad woke films that is different from bad films is that they send the message that future films in the franchise will also be bad. That's why The Last Jedi killed off Star Wars.

Also, for good 'woke' movies: BlacKKKlansman is goddamn hilarious. I highly recommend it.
What a meaninglessly nihilistic and empty worldview you chose to defend, in perfect alignment with Post Modern nonsense. Values do not arise from nothing, they are not arbitrary.
If by Post Modern nonsense, you mean basis of capitalism, sure. But I don't think you want to have a productive debate here, so I'll just stop now.
 

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