Alternate History What PoDs Would Create An Unrecognizable World?

[Agent23]

Did the technology to build such a canal actually exist back then, though?

Well, the Suez canal is a rather straightforward design as opposed to the Panama canal, read, it is just a big trench full of water connecting two seas that connect two oceans.

SO in theory it should have been possible, maybe with a few dams to feed water into the stretch of land between the two seas and some digging.

Methinks they'd need lots and lots of workers for a long time though.

 

[Skallagrim]

Did the technology to build such a canal actually exist back then, though?

Alexander actually had plans to restore this.

 

[Agent23]

Alexander actually had plans to restore this.

Dunno how useful it will be for navigation, though.
Probably rerouting a few rivers into those lakes, then digging so that there is a direct connection might be better, but harder.

 

[Skallagrim]

Dunno how useful it will be for navigation, though.
Probably rerouting a few rivers into those lakes, then digging so that there is a direct connection might be better, but harder.

I don't see any sea-going ships using it, but offloading cargo into barges, moving it with those, and then loading it into other ships on the other side... well, that still beats doing the exact same thing but with horse/donkeys/carts/camels/etc instead of barges.

Pre-railroads, waterways are almost invariably an economic improvement.

 

[Bear Ribs]

One I've been playing with is the idea that the oceans are full of aggressive megafauna out of mythology, your sea serpents and krakens and the like. This renders trans-oceanic travel a non-starter up until the invention of propulsion systems and weapons systems able to cope, well beyond the OTL age of exploration.

 

[Zyobot]

One I've been playing with is the idea that the oceans are full of aggressive megafauna out of mythology, your sea serpents and krakens and the like. This renders trans-oceanic travel a non-starter up until the invention of propulsion systems and weapons systems able to cope, well beyond the OTL age of exploration.

Wonder who the preeminent naval power(s) will be ITTL, then? For instance, I'd ask if Great Britain could still do it, but the resulting divergences run the risk of butterflying peoples and cultures we recognize from emerging, at least in a form OTL observers would recognize.

 

[WolfBear]

Wonder who the preeminent naval power(s) will be ITTL, then? For instance, I'd ask if Great Britain could still do it, but the resulting divergences run the risk of butterflying peoples and cultures we recognize from emerging, at least in a form OTL observers would recognize.

If France avoided its 19th century demographic stagnation, it could have become a much larger naval power in comparison to real life.

Also Germany if it would have avoided losing WWI.

 

[Zyobot]

If France avoided its 19th century demographic stagnation, it could have become a much larger naval power in comparison to real life.

Also Germany if it would have avoided losing WWI.

Assuming they still materialize, that is. Which is a dubious proposition, given how far back the evolution of marine megafauna goes and its various effects on ecosystems and environmental conditions worldwide.

 

[WolfBear]

Assuming they still materialize, that is. Which is a dubious proposition, given how far back the evolution of marine megafauna goes and its various effects on ecosystems and environmental conditions worldwide.

Yeah, fair point.

Anyway:

'AHC: Make Ghosts Real'

 

[Zyobot]

Yeah, fair point.

Thanks.

Further, I'm also curious as to how this would impact the advent of air travel, since flying ten thousand feet above sea level or whatever is a surefire way to avoid the sea monsters. ... Well, barring plane crashes straight into the Bermuda Triangle, anyway.

Anyway:

'AHC: Make Ghosts Real'

I think that belongs more in the General AH thread? Sure, history would diverge wildly if that were true, but I'd rather not have too many ASB ideas in this thread, either, barring exceptional ones with at least a few sentences' worth of description to them.

 

[WolfBear]

Thanks.

Further, I'm also curious as to how this would impact the advent of air travel, since flying ten thousand feet above sea level or whatever is a surefire way to avoid the sea monsters. ... Well, barring plane crashes straight into the Bermuda Triangle, anyway.



I think that belongs more in the General AH thread? Sure, history would diverge wildly if that were true, but I'd rather not have too many ASB ideas in this thread, either, barring exceptional ones with at least a few sentences' worth of description to them.

You might also want guns and ironclad ships!

And Yeah, fair point.

 

[Zyobot]

You might also want guns and ironclad ships!

And Yeah, fair point.

Which reminds me, any more specific ideas on how shipbuilding and naval warfare might develop in your scenario, @Bear Ribs?

 

[Bear Ribs]

Which reminds me, any more specific ideas on how shipbuilding and naval warfare might develop in your scenario, @Bear Ribs?

My general thoughts:

Sea monsters live near the shore in their larval/youthful stage but move into deeper waters as they mature. The deeper the ocean, the more horrific the sea kaijuu get. River, lake, and shore fishing are still generally viable with only a slightly increased chance of giant crocodile/colossal crab attack.

The Depth Charge will get developed very early after the discovery of gunpowder, however the deep sea horrors take more gunpowder than you're likely to bring to the fight and explosions may attract the attention of more monsters so it's not a panacea.

In general, I would say "medium" ships don't exist, boat strategies for dealing with monsters will go two ways: Very small, very fast craft that attempt to outrun sea kaijuu, and the biggest most armed/armored ships you can build that try to fight them. Ships in the middle get overtaken and eaten so nobody builds those.

The first transoceanic trip (That's known to survive) will be an ironclad steamship, such travel won't be reliable and bigger, badder ships will be needed to travel without risk. Airships can safely cross the oceans once developed to a sufficient degree to have the range, and early colonization efforts in the new world will work off of flying machines as ironclads aren't reliable enough.

Trade Routes will develop based on following undersea ridges like the Emperor/Hawaii sea chain, allowing ships to stick with shallower waters and avoid the bigger kaijuu.

 

[Eparkhos]

@Bear Ribs

Airships can safely cross the oceans once developed to a sufficient degree to have the range, and early colonization efforts in the new world will work off of flying machines as ironclads aren't reliable enough.

I think I remember an arcade game from the late 90s/early 00s that had a similar premise. It was 1930(ish) or something when monsters emerged and you played as an airship commander trying to destroy their 'hive' or something in Atlantis.

 

[WolfBear]

What about this PoD? :

The Muslims win the 717-718 Siege of Constantinople and subsequently win at Tours in 732.

This could result in a significantly weaker Christian presence and a significantly stronger Muslim presence in Europe in the long(er)-run.

 

[The Unicorn]

what PoDs have the potential to create an unrecognizable world.

All of them. Any significant divergence would create a nearly unrecognizable world. We almost always explore the immediate aftermath of POD because the changes rapidly mount up. Take for example the American revolution, it not happening means in the short term Britain has a lot more power, but it doesn't make the social stresses disappear, it does mean they'll express themselves differently and with different political setups the French revolution and the Napolianic wars won't happen which will lead to further political divergence and different development of military technology.

 

[WolfBear]

All of them. Any significant divergence would create a nearly unrecognizable world. We almost always explore the immediate aftermath of POD because the changes rapidly mount up. Take for example the American revolution, it not happening means in the short term Britain has a lot more power, but it doesn't make the social stresses disappear, it does mean they'll express themselves differently and with different political setups the French revolution and the Napolianic wars won't happen which will lead to further political divergence and different development of military technology.

No American Revolution might mean a much larger Canada in the long(er)-run. Seriously. I'm not sure that there would actually be any reason to have the 13 Colonies and Canada actually remain separate in the long(er)-run in this TL.

 

[The Unicorn]

No American Revolution might mean a much larger Canada in the long(er)-run. Seriously. I'm not sure that there would actually be any reason to have the 13 Colonies and Canada actually remain separate in the long(er)-run in this TL.

But no French revolution and no Napolianic wars would mean much stronger resistance to the British spreading across the continant and the desire for control by the Parliament would slow that even further. tHen you have the way the merindian tribes would be able to play the europeans against one another instead of dealing with one very powerful nation.
You also have the potential for Russia, China, Japan or other asian nations taking an interest in the Americas, and of course with different political situations you'll have different groups going of to America...

 

[Agent23]

No American Revolution might mean a much larger Canada in the long(er)-run. Seriously. I'm not sure that there would actually be any reason to have the 13 Colonies and Canada actually remain separate in the long(er)-run in this TL.

It would also mean Louisiana staying French and Alaska - Russian.

Also, a major point of contention, at least according to 1775: A Good Year for Revolution was that the British were limiting the Colonies in other ways, not just where representation was concerned.
They blocked territorial expansion, limited industrial development, forced the colonies to buy certain amounts of British products, even blocked people from cutting trees on their own land.
Some Scottish lobbyists even wanted all pig iron production in North America to be dismantled.
TL;DR Big Canada will probably be far less powerful than ATL America, with some key bits and pieces missing.

 

[WolfBear]

Another good PoD: Not super-radical relative to the other PoDs, but still pretty radical by 20th century standards: Having Vladimir Lenin die or be assassinated sometime before 1917.