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Warbirds Thread

BF110C4

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To be blunt given what we've seen in Ukraine modern Air Defenses aren't exactly nice to non stealthy aircraft if well operated and thus more stealth aircraft vs non stealth aircraft especially for active frontline Squadrons and not national guard units is a good idea
The idea of a mix between stealth and non-stealth planes is for the F-22/F-35s to strike at the enemies air defense units in both land and air and once they're supressed allow the conventional planes to strike at the enemies actual strategic assets. Too many stealth assets with their higher cost per unit and maintenance requirements means you have less plataforms available during an air campaign and therefore less effectiveness in the overall air power.

What is needed is a more effective air supression doctrine, one supported by ground assets such as artillery, specialized wild weasel drones and cruise missiles. Because I agree that air defenses are a pain in the ass for any air force in the world, but a purely technological solution such as stealth aircraft can bite people in the ass if anyone manages to make a radar capable of defeating the current generation of stealth.
 

Marduk

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To be blunt given what we've seen in Ukraine modern Air Defenses aren't exactly nice to non stealthy aircraft if well operated and thus more stealth aircraft vs non stealth aircraft especially for active frontline Squadrons and not national guard units is a good idea
Not great, not terrible. On the other hand both Ukraine and Russia still are far from losing all their not exactly state of art aircraft with not exactly state of art pilot training and ECM equipment, even though Russian air defense in particular was considered one of best in the world. It's a safe assumption that a state of art air force operating non-stealth aircraft could do even better than them.
 

ShadowArxxy

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One engine cheaper. If you want to keep up numbers and the budget doesn't allow enough F-15 EX, that's the role.
The F-15EX has been massively optimized for cost effectiveness, with initial aircraft cost being around $80 million and most impressively cutting cost per flight hour from ~$40,000 per hour on the F-15C to ~$29,000 per hour. For comparison, the Block 70/72 F-16 -- not even the latest F-16V "Super Viper", much less an actual EX-equivalent refresh -- cost $64 million each, massively up from the under $20 million for the old F-16C Block 50/52. Operating cost for the new versions isn't widely known, but the old F-16Cs ran around $23,000 per hour.

With these numbers, I really don't see any point in keeping the Falcon around when the Eagle II is such a huge upgrade in capabilities for such a modest increase in cost.
 

Marduk

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The F-15EX has been massively optimized for cost effectiveness, with initial aircraft cost being around $80 million and most impressively cutting cost per flight hour from ~$40,000 per hour on the F-15C to ~$29,000 per hour. For comparison, the Block 70/72 F-16 -- not even the latest F-16V "Super Viper", much less an actual EX-equivalent refresh -- cost $64 million each, massively up from the under $20 million for the old F-16C Block 50/52. Operating cost for the new versions isn't widely known, but the old F-16Cs ran around $23,000 per hour.

With these numbers, I really don't see any point in keeping the Falcon around when the Eagle II is such a huge upgrade in capabilities for such a modest increase in cost.
Obviously F-16C operating costs are about as relevant here as F-15C operating costs, this model is ancient.
Do we know the operating cost of the F-16 variant with the same technologies implemented?
Found this article giving a 12k figure for F-16E.
 

Knowledgeispower

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The idea of a mix between stealth and non-stealth planes is for the F-22/F-35s to strike at the enemies air defense units in both land and air and once they're supressed allow the conventional planes to strike at the enemies actual strategic assets. Too many stealth assets with their higher cost per unit and maintenance requirements means you have less plataforms available during an air campaign and therefore less effectiveness in the overall air power.

What is needed is a more effective air supression doctrine, one supported by ground assets such as artillery, specialized wild weasel drones and cruise missiles. Because I agree that air defenses are a pain in the ass for any air force in the world, but a purely technological solution such as stealth aircraft can bite people in the ass if anyone manages to make a radar capable of defeating the current generation of stealth.
Probably will get something akin to a stealth F-111 or Strike Eagle equivalent the next thing on the USAFs wishlist to develop and probably a wild weasel variant for said design albeit the odds of that actually being ya know developed and fielded are low. As for non stealth strike birds...the EX probably will have a larger than planned build or a variant to replace the strike eagles
 

ShadowArxxy

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The F-15EX is already fully capable of replacing the Strike Eagle, since the Air Force chose to obtain the two-seat EX and not the single-seat X. They're just *currently* only replacing F-15Cs and not staffing the back seat.
 

Sailor.X

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To be blunt given what we've seen in Ukraine modern Air Defenses aren't exactly nice to non stealthy aircraft if well operated and thus more stealth aircraft vs non stealth aircraft especially for active frontline Squadrons and not national guard units is a good idea
Stealth Aircraft and cruise missiles can be used to take out anti air systems. Then all you have to deal with is open airspace. You don't need Stealth for open airspace. We can have a massive force of Stealth Aircraft. Or we can have a balanced military as a whole. We can't have both. 1 Trillion dollars for one program is a bridge to far.
 

ShadowArxxy

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Obviously F-16C operating costs are about as relevant here as F-15C operating costs, this model is ancient.
Do we know the operating cost of the F-16 variant with the same technologies implemented?
Found this article giving a 12k figure for F-16E.
The problem is that article *also* gives a $18 million per cost for F-16, which is the old F-16C produced at "USAF and massive global exports" volume, and it doesn't name any sources for the $12K/hour figure, which is dramatically lower than the $23K/hour figure quoted everywhere else I can find any reference to F-16 operating costs.
 

Husky_Khan

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Even Thicker B-52 Bombers For the Future! These will likely have the designation of a B-52J or K.

:unsure:

These new B-52's will have sexy new engines since the ol' Pratt & Whitney TF33 Turbofans are out of production for a wee bit now. They will be replaced with F130 Engine PODS! Also the Bombers will be getting a nose job which will make the B-52 look younger like it did back in the 70's when its nose was mangled supposedly out of necessity for things like Electro-Optical Viewing Systems and FLIR's and whatnot. The new nosepods will hopefully have new AESA radars and maybe move targeting pods from the wings where they were before.

Other accessories and accouterments will undoubtedly be announced, and everything I said is likely to be false in the coming months... if not seconds due to my reading comprehension. And the fact that this thicc B-52 so far only exists as a CGI rendering and wind tunnel models.



If you want more information, here's a recently recently YouTube video that shows a random assortment of cargo airplane footage for some reason.

Random videos on the thing.


And from 2017...

 

Bacle

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Even Thicker B-52 Bombers For the Future! These will likely have the designation of a B-52J or K.

:unsure:

These new B-52's will have sexy new engines since the ol' Pratt & Whitney TF33 Turbofans are out of production for a wee bit now. They will be replaced with F130 Engine PODS! Also the Bombers will be getting a nose job which will make the B-52 look younger like it did back in the 70's when its nose was mangled supposedly out of necessity for things like Electro-Optical Viewing Systems and FLIR's and whatnot. The new nosepods will hopefully have new AESA radars and maybe move targeting pods from the wings where they were before.

Other accessories and accouterments will undoubtedly be announced, and everything I said is likely to be false in the coming months... if not seconds due to my reading comprehension. And the fact that this thicc B-52 so far only exists as a CGI rendering and wind tunnel models.



If you want more information, here's a recently recently YouTube video that shows a random assortment of cargo airplane footage for some reason.

Random videos on the thing.


And from 2017...

Uh, I think you probably meant to put this in the Warbirds thread, right?
 

Zachowon

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That thong will be flying when we are colonizing mars
 

Doomsought

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That thong will be flying when we are colonizing mars
The aluminum will give out eventually. Now BMGs on the otherhand, those will last forever, they are made of steel and are in that sweet spot between and auto-cannon and machinegun where they will always be useful somewhere while being man portable.
 

Bacle

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That thong will be flying when we are colonizing mars
The aluminum will give out eventually. Now BMGs on the otherhand, those will last forever, they are made of steel and are in that sweet spot between and auto-cannon and machinegun where they will always be useful somewhere while being man portable.
Or it could be Elon actually gets his shit together in the next few decades and actually begins flights to Mars.

I expect a B-52X, like the Abram's X, will come along in a few year.

'New' planes that are still basically new build units made out of refurbished bits from old planes and new bits from the old dyes so they don't need to redo the whole airframe, along with upgraded engines. They are supposed to already be moving to 4 turbofans instead of 8 of the old type fairly soon.

A 'new production, upgraded airframe' is an easier sell than a whole new bomber, and we already have the B-21's in the pipe, likely to be publicly unveiled in the not so distant future.
 

Knowledgeispower

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Or it could be Elon actually gets his shit together in the next few decades and actually begins flights to Mars.

I expect a B-52X, like the Abram's X, will come along in a few year.

'New' planes that are still basically new build units made out of refurbished bits from old planes and new bits from the old dyes so they don't need to redo the whole airframe, along with upgraded engines. They are supposed to already be moving to 4 turbofans instead of 8 of the old type fairly soon.

A 'new production, upgraded airframe' is an easier sell than a whole new bomber, and we already have the B-21's in the pipe, likely to be publicly unveiled in the not so distant future.
alas more likely to see someone convert a airliner frame to be akin to the B-52 than a X equivalent because its going to be a lot more cost effective to do so
 

Bacle

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alas more likely to see someone convert a airliner frame to be akin to the B-52 than a X equivalent because its going to be a lot more cost effective to do so
Well they've already turned 737's into ASW platforms, so...
 

Knowledgeispower

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Well they've already turned 737's into ASW platforms, so...
probably would be a 777. would be a 747 but yeah Boeing is all but done making those. also there's been a 767 AWACs variant as well. plus the tanker variant
 

Sailor.X

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probably would be a 777. would be a 747 but yeah Boeing is all but done making those. also there's been a 767 AWACs variant as well. plus the tanker variant
What about just making a Bomber version of the C-17. The rear ramp could be used for loading on the bombs. Then just modify the under body with bombay doors and it could work.
 

Knowledgeispower

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What about just making a Bomber version of the C-17. The rear ramp could be used for loading on the bombs. Then just modify the under body with bombay doors and it could work.
alas the C-17 is out of production and has been since 7 years ago and boeing sold off the long beach plant where it made them 4 years ago albeit the C-17 tooling is in storage. On the positive side of things the site is in useful service in building and assembling rockets with a company called Relativity Space
 
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Sailor.X

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alas the C-17 is out of production and has been since 7 years ago and boeing sold off the long beach plant where it made them 4 years ago albeit the C-17 tooling is in storage. On the positive side of things the site is in useful service in building and assembling rockets with a company called Relativity Space
Poopy. At least I tried. :(
 
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