Ukraine vs Fallout Pre-War America

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
@Husky_Khan Anyways I was thinking, the main hurdles Fallout America is going to have is the superior range and accuracy of Ukrainian air, artillery and anti air as FO America didn't really develop missile interception on a wide scale.

So initial ground forces are going to get stalled and have to

A) Burn through Ukrainian long ranged missiles and artillery at the cost of tremendous amounts of resources
B) Find a way to work around it

Canonically in Operation Anchorage we know that in order to get around long ranged artillery they deployed paratroopers to get in close and destroy it. So FO America may have to launch a massive Vertibird fleet after a barrage of their long ranged ballistic missiles (They had someone that could hit China from West Virginia)

If they used power armored troopers on the Vertibirds they can jump off from high altitudes with their jetpacks like mini paratroopers they can also send in a few waves of expendable Vertibots as chaff before the real main force deploys to take down the arty and other long ranged emplacements.

If this is following a general Russian pattern, I'm assuming the Fallout Americans will attempt a similar airborne operation, since that is what they do, to support their opening invasion. The Russians were able to use heliborne forces to strike as Hostomel Airport and drop a few hundred troops there, but there were heavy losses and the Ukrainians were able to counter attack and retake the airfield. Comparing the Vertibirds to Russian Helicopters, I honestly think the Russians probably have better capabilities as we know they have both utility/transport and attack helicopters will countermeasures and more longer ranged weapons and the like so I think Vertibird losses would be heavier. The advantage the Fallout Americans would have is they have robots and power armor potentially in that first wave, but I feel that they would eventually get swamped in the counterattacks.

The other issue is that the Fallout Americans will have to hold any airborne landing sites longer, including the Airport, because the Russian invasion force was initially fully mechanized with lots of armor and air support. The Fallout Americans MIGHT be as vehicle heavy, but there's no indication they'll be any less vulnerable to thirty kilometer long traffic jams. In fact, such outcomes might be more likely.

Unlike the Russians, the Fallout Americans won't benefit from widespread sabotage and infiltration as well as having years to waste on intelligence gathering and scouting and benefiting from having lots of connections across the border, and common language and cultural/religious practices as well. They'll be going in more blind, which can lead to any sort of road bound assault like the Russians attempted to likely be less successful and thus their advances by motorized/mechanized forces along roads pretty slowly.

The reason the Fallout Americans will be more successful then the Russians in part is that they won't be bound to the roads and military vehicles using them. Power Armored infantry can carry heavy weapons and robots like Gutsies and Sentry Bots and Assaultrons backed by lighter vehicles and Vertibirds can go across rougher terrain on a broader front and advance on that broader front, away from the roads and overwhelm Ukrainian defenses. The Russians when attempting to capture Kyiv kept trying to find alternate road routes to little avail in attempting to outflank the Ukrainians. The Fallout Americans can attack along a wider front, between the roads, through the wilderness, through the urban sprawl, as well as the roads and force the Ukrainians to spread their defenses thin.

And since you need heavy weapons to counter Power Armor and Sentry Bots/Assaultrons reliably, they'll have to spread out their RPG's and Javelins and NLAWs as well as artillery fire. And it's far harder deploying heavy weapons.... because they are heavy... off road and deploying them in the numbers they could intercepting road bound convoys and thunder runs.

Artillery will probably be the biggest killer of Fallout Americans though, but that is a finite amount and the Ukrainians only have the Tochka Ballistic Missiles at the moment, which aren't very accurate for tactical purposes. NATO would have to get them more artillery and stuff more quickly then waiting until May or June or whatever and by then I feel the War would be largely decided.

I think the Fallout Americans can take Kyiv in about a month with the rest of the country falling away in the following weeks sooner or later. It won't be easy, but Fallout America would be victorious I feel.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
If this is following a general Russian pattern, I'm assuming the Fallout Americans will attempt a similar airborne operation, since that is what they do, to support their opening invasion. The Russians were able to use heliborne forces to strike as Hostomel Airport and drop a few hundred troops there, but there were heavy losses and the Ukrainians were able to counter attack and retake the airfield. Comparing the Vertibirds to Russian Helicopters, I honestly think the Russians probably have better capabilities as we know they have both utility/transport and attack helicopters will countermeasures and more longer ranged weapons and the like so I think Vertibird losses would be heavier. The advantage the Fallout Americans would have is they have robots and power armor potentially in that first wave, but I feel that they would eventually get swamped in the counterattacks.

The other issue is that the Fallout Americans will have to hold any airborne landing sites longer, including the Airport, because the Russian invasion force was initially fully mechanized with lots of armor and air support. The Fallout Americans MIGHT be as vehicle heavy, but there's no indication they'll be any less vulnerable to thirty kilometer long traffic jams. In fact, such outcomes might be more likely.

Unlike the Russians, the Fallout Americans won't benefit from widespread sabotage and infiltration as well as having years to waste on intelligence gathering and scouting and benefiting from having lots of connections across the border, and common language and cultural/religious practices as well. They'll be going in more blind, which can lead to any sort of road bound assault like the Russians attempted to likely be less successful and thus their advances by motorized/mechanized forces along roads pretty slowly.

The reason the Fallout Americans will be more successful then the Russians in part is that they won't be bound to the roads and military vehicles using them. Power Armored infantry can carry heavy weapons and robots like Gutsies and Sentry Bots and Assaultrons backed by lighter vehicles and Vertibirds can go across rougher terrain on a broader front and advance on that broader front, away from the roads and overwhelm Ukrainian defenses. The Russians when attempting to capture Kyiv kept trying to find alternate road routes to little avail in attempting to outflank the Ukrainians. The Fallout Americans can attack along a wider front, between the roads, through the wilderness, through the urban sprawl, as well as the roads and force the Ukrainians to spread their defenses thin.

And since you need heavy weapons to counter Power Armor and Sentry Bots/Assaultrons reliably, they'll have to spread out their RPG's and Javelins and NLAWs as well as artillery fire. And it's far harder deploying heavy weapons.... because they are heavy... off road and deploying them in the numbers they could intercepting road bound convoys and thunder runs.

Artillery will probably be the biggest killer of Fallout Americans though, but that is a finite amount and the Ukrainians only have the Tochka Ballistic Missiles at the moment, which aren't very accurate for tactical purposes. NATO would have to get them more artillery and stuff more quickly then waiting until May or June or whatever and by then I feel the War would be largely decided.

I think the Fallout Americans can take Kyiv in about a month with the rest of the country falling away in the following weeks sooner or later. It won't be easy, but Fallout America would be victorious I feel.
Hmm could they take it sooner if they use some prototype Chameleon death claws at night?
b62d09b09b66982b765886b1ae630c6a.jpg


Invisible cold blooded reptiles so infrared is useless and they're already near invisible to the naked eye so it'd be hard to see them at night before they close the distance.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Hmm could they take it sooner if they use some prototype Chameleon death claws at night?
b62d09b09b66982b765886b1ae630c6a.jpg


Invisible cold blooded reptiles so infrared is useless and they're already near invisible to the naked eye so it'd be hard to see them at night before they close the distance.

A deathclaw even without chameleon abilities would be formidable simply for how much damage they could soak, but the stealth characteristics would be countered when the Ukrainians simply employ their own War Beast assets into the conflict. I wasn't lying when I said Fallout America would find infiltration difficult.

Along with the Soviet era Attack Dogs who could sniff out spies, Ukraine has had forty years to tame their own Pseudodogs including Blind Dogs for military and law enforcement purposes. There's even reports of them utilizing Psy Dogs in one of their hundreds of secret Biolabs. This is why Russia thought it so important to seize the Exclusion Zone.

Ukraine hasn't unleashed such things or worse in this conflict because Russia hasn't unleashed their War Beasts either. But make no mistake, this is an escalation of which both sides should be wary of entering because they won't know how it could end up. This is a Special Military Operation, not Total War... yet.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
A deathclaw even without chameleon abilities would be formidable simply for how much damage they could soak, but the stealth characteristics would be countered when the Ukrainians simply employ their own War Beast assets into the conflict. I wasn't lying when I said Fallout America would find infiltration difficult.

Along with the Soviet era Attack Dogs who could sniff out spies, Ukraine has had forty years to tame their own Pseudodogs including Blind Dogs for military and law enforcement purposes. There's even reports of them utilizing Psy Dogs in one of their hundreds of secret Biolabs. This is why Russia thought it so important to seize the Exclusion Zone.

Ukraine hasn't unleashed such things or worse in this conflict because Russia hasn't unleashed their War Beasts either. But make no mistake, this is an escalation of which both sides should be wary of entering because they won't know how it could end up. This is a Special Military Operation, not Total War... yet.
Nah man those three types of dogs are too weak for the mighty Death Claw.

Just look at it
DyPbWpAUYAEb6iX.jpg


What are those Ukrainian dogs gonna do, bark it to death?
😈
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Nah man those three types of dogs are too weak for the mighty Death Claw.

Just look at it
DyPbWpAUYAEb6iX.jpg


What are those Ukrainian dogs gonna do, bark it to death?
😈

It'll be like that scene versus Los Gigantes in Resident Evil 4 only Slavic instead of Spanish.

The Psy Dogs meanwhile would place illusionary phantoms over the Enclave American Deathclaw keepers. Hilarity ensues.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
It'll be like that scene versus Los Gigantes in Resident Evil 4 only Slavic instead of Spanish.

The Psy Dogs meanwhile would place illusionary phantoms over the Enclave American Deathclaw keepers. Hilarity ensues.
I doubt illusions will work on Death Claws when their masters remote control them!!!!
Domestication_unit2.png
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
I doubt illusions will work on Death Claws when their masters remote control them!!!!
Domestication_unit2.png

Remote Control is like the worst way to control living creatures. You've seen too much X-Men Origins: Wolverine. I know that its one of the greatest films of all time, but punching commands into your keyboard (or the Fallout equivalent) is not the best way to handle a Deathclaw in a dynamic situation.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Remote Control is like the worst way to control living creatures. You've seen too much X-Men Origins: Wolverine. I know that its one of the greatest films of all time, but punching commands into your keyboard (or the Fallout equivalent) is not the best way to handle a Deathclaw in a dynamic situation.
Hmm TBF if a Death Claw goes rogue it's still a problem the Ukraine side has to deal with

:p


A Chameleon Deathclaw at night is practically gonna be John Wicking people

DAfLVwmq.gif

They be smart enough to actually know to dodge
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member

Hmm I wonder if FO America's limited orbital satellites could be used to create an opening during the first month?

They have a few limited slots but Archimedes is reusable without having to resupply.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
b62d09b09b66982b765886b1ae630c6a.jpg
Anyone have an idea on how effective Chameleon Death Claws will be in Ukraine during night?

Since they're cold blooded and can turn invisible to the naked eye they should be OP at night right?
According to the Fallout 2 Strategy Guide, Pre-war deathclaws were quite a bit weaker than post-war ones. They were experimented on by The Master with FEV and all the fun stuff.
So it's unlikely Pre-War America even has Chameleon Deathclaws.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
According to the Fallout 2 Strategy Guide, Pre-war deathclaws were quite a bit weaker than post-war ones. They were experimented on by The Master with FEV and all the fun stuff.
So it's unlikely Pre-War America even has Chameleon Deathclaws.
Ehhhhh West Coast Deathclaws got augmented.


East Coast Deathclaws existed before the Master including the Chameleons (Fallout 76 takes place before the Master existed), they might as well be different species tbh.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
Ehhhhh West Coast Deathclaws got augmented.


East Coast Deathclaws existed before the Master including the Chameleons (Fallout 76 takes place before the Master existed), they might as well be different species tbh.
7dkdmz.jpg

*Fallout post NV can be rendered invalid*

Deathclaws existed in an unknown form before The Master, nobody has ever seen what they used to look like. Presumably just weaker smaller versions of FO1 Deathclaws.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
7dkdmz.jpg

*Fallout post NV can be rendered invalid*

Deathclaws existed in an unknown form before The Master, nobody has ever seen what they used to look like. Presumably just weaker smaller versions of FO1 Deathclaws.
Fine if you wanna be that way then Fallout just mass produces Archmides weapon systems and blast Ukrainians to ash
FNV_screenshot_Helios_laser.jpg


>:p

Superior electronics and no Post New Vegas this!
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
Fine if you wanna be that way then Fallout just mass produces Archmides weapon systems and blast Ukrainians to ash
FNV_screenshot_Helios_laser.jpg


>:p

Superior electronics and no Post New Vegas this!
They could do that, yup! The operator of the weapon system does have to be within LOS though, and it only has one shot a day. But that's still a pretty fearsome weapon system.
They'd have better luck using the nuke-satelites to just bombard every Ukrainian power/food system and let them all starve in the dark though.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
They could do that, yup! The operator of the weapon system does have to be within LOS though, and it only has one shot a day. But that's still a pretty fearsome weapon system.
They'd have better luck using the nuke-satelites to just bombard every Ukrainian power/food system and let them all starve in the dark though.
Nah they just need to reprogram their weapon to be used at terminal.


Archimedes I (Not to be confused with Archmides II) technically activates from terminal and the blast comes from space so they can definitely do some rigging and upgrades.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
Nah they just need to reprogram their weapon to be used at terminal.


Archimedes I (Not to be confused with Archmides II) technically activates from terminal and the blast comes from space so they can definitely do some rigging and upgrades.
Archimedes I is the defense system to blap anyone around the facility IIRC, it's can only target hostiles near the plant. II is able to be used worldwide.
Edit: Archimedes I is the defense system, II is superior but still can only be used within a limited range of the Helios One facility.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Archimedes I is the defense system to blap anyone around the facility IIRC, it's can only target hostiles near the plant. II is able to be used worldwide.
Edit: Archimedes I is the defense system, II is superior but still can only be used within a limited range of the Helios One facility.
This blast though comes from Archmides II
FNV_screenshot_Helios_laser.jpg

Notice it exceeds tower height

The AI says Archmides II orbital bombardment will commence in without the Finder.

2:00 time stamp

And it automatically targets the NCR so it can be controlled from a terminal and without a ranger, FO America just gotta patch note that bad boy.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
This blast though comes from Archmides II
FNV_screenshot_Helios_laser.jpg

Notice it exceeds tower height

The AI says Archmides II orbital bombardment will commence in without the Finder.

2:00 time stamp

And it automatically targets the NCR so it can be controlled from a terminal and without a ranger, FO America just gotta patch note that bad boy.

"I" can still only be used near the facility, it's the plant's defence system that the BoS tried using against the NCR. II is the same system linked to the fun lil raygun rangefinder, which according to the BoS can still only be used somewhat close to the facility.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
"I" can still only be used near the facility, it's the plant's defence system that the BoS tried using against the NCR. II is the same system linked to the fun lil raygun rangefinder, which according to the BoS can still only be used somewhat close to the facility.
Hmm where do the BOS say they have to be close to the facility to use it though? I'm pretty sure you can use the Euclid in the DLC areas like Zion.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
Hmm where do the BOS say they have to be close to the facility to use it though? I'm pretty sure you can use the Euclid in the DLC areas like Zion.
Nolan McNamara: "Veronica. I hope-"
Veronica Santangelo: "I brought you a present. We unlocked the secret of HELIOS One."
Nolan McNamara: "What? Wonderful news!"
Veronica Santangelo: "No. It's not. ARCHIMEDES II is an orbital laser. Effective only outdoors in a limited radius and requiring a long recharge."
 

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