Turkish-backed attack on Armenia by Azerbaijan with formal declaration of War

Arlos

Sad Monarchist
Well, that escalated quickly...
When was the last time there was a military mobilization?
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
More like 1996, for this is the continuation of that conflict.

I guess that sending Syrian mercenaries to Azerbeijan means that there will be a bit of deescalation in Libya. Also. if they want to send them to the main battlefront, then they will have to send them through Iran, Turkey only has direct link to Nakhichevan enclave.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
More like 1996, for this is the continuation of that conflict.

I guess that sending Syrian mercenaries to Azerbeijan means that there will be a bit of deescalation in Libya. Also. if they want to send them to the main battlefront, then they will have to send them through Iran, Turkey only has direct link to Nakhichevan enclave.

Iran is quite anti-Azerbaijan because the Azerbaijanis are nationalist Turks rather than Shia Islamic in their governance structure... The Iranians want a more pliable Azerbaijani government and have supported Armenia outright. I assume Turkey is in fact sending these mercenaries to Nakhchivan. Or the Georgians are allowing overflight of Turkish "civilian" airplanes carrying "civilian cargo" to Baku....
 

ATP

Well-known member
Does this have to do with Armenian genocide?


It's happening.

@Zachowon your friends might be stuck there.

Armenians from ex-Russia empire after 1918 hold off turks by themselves, till Red army come and taken everybody.Fun thing - it was one of few cases,when commies really helped stop genocide.
Even more fun - soviets was Turkey allies, but that do not mean,that they let them take ex-russian territories.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Everytime there's blatant genocide going on where both sides got their own guns someone always got to poke their noses to say knock that shit out or join in.

If it gets more intense I wait for Pol's take to see if they can include the remove kebab song.
The US will only get involved should it escalate to a world war
Azerbaijan uses a lot of Russian hardware, if they cross lines better not crossed Russia can withhold technical support. Then again, last time around the Azeri also had quite a bit Israeli gear, suicide drones / loitering munitions and such.
I am pretty sure they use mainly if not exclusively Russian based stuff
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
If Turkey gets directly involved, and tries to invoke Art 5 to get NATO involved, I hope the other NATO leaders and Trump give Erdy a giant middle finger and then pull all US troops/supplies out of Turkey.

This time Russia will likely be coming in on the 'right' side of a conflict, and we all need to accept that.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
If Turkey gets directly involved, and tries to invoke Art 5 to get NATO involved, I hope the other NATO leaders and Trump give Erdy a giant middle finger and then pull all US troops/supplies out of Turkey.

This time Russia will likely be coming in on the 'right' side of a conflict, and we all need to accept that.
US will definitely say FUCK YOU.
We literally have no damn business being involved in this and would be on the aggressors side
 

Tryglaw

Well-known member
The US will only get involved should it escalate to a world war

I am pretty sure they use mainly if not exclusively Russian based stuff

Azeri use Israeli and Turkish gear too, drones especially.

If Turkey gets directly involved, and tries to invoke Art 5 to get NATO involved, I hope the other NATO leaders and Trump give Erdy a giant middle finger and then pull all US troops/supplies out of Turkey.

This time Russia will likely be coming in on the 'right' side of a conflict, and we all need to accept that.

About article 5, exact verbiage:

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Relevant part in bold. "such action as it deems necessary". It would be rules lawyering at it's finest to proclaim that under article 5 other NATO members will deem necessary to pray for a bloodless resolution. And nothing more. Perfectly legal...

Also, if Turkey gets involved without being attacked first, then it's an aggressor and doesn't get to call in a defensive alliance when it gets hit in response to it's aggression.
 
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The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
The Turks sending Syrian mercenaries to fight for Azerbaijan seriously raises the risks of escalation and the Russians being drawn in. It also ups the risks of Russia deciding to retaliation by supporting a Syrian offensive into Idlib.

I think it could get much worse.

What it really comes down to is how much Turkey is willing to support its cousins in Azerbaijan while risking their relations with Russia. Last time Russia and Turkey went head to head on policy, Turkey backed down. This may be different though. Although Armenia has lots of hills and mountains, making any sort of penetration into the region very difficult, it is essentially flanked on both sides. Nakhchivan would probably fall to Armenia on its own, but if Turkey is willing to go to the mat for this, the whole situation could morph very quickly.

Armenia can't possibly win a war against both Azerbaijan and Turkey, even if Turkey doesn't put in the bulk of its military power behind Azerbaijan. So Russia has to respond. Otherwise, you could very well not just see the contested region fall to Azerbaijan, but a corridor of territory falling to Azerbaijan that connects it to Turkey. Russia could probably protect the northern regions of Armenia with its forces in Georgia, but that would allow Turkey to fully extend its power into the Caspian Sea. Mind you, a sea that doesn't really go anywhere, but it would allow Turkey to possibly connect with other powers or even float a small navy.

The other issue is Iran. Because this is NOT something that Iran is going to want. If Iran decides to get involved, then that would cause Turkey to ally with Saudi Arabia, Israel, and other powers that are seeking to contain Iran. That in turn would probably force Iran and Russia to intensify their works in the other contested regions such as Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen.

Turkey has already shown that it's willing to go to the mat to prevent a Kurdish nation from forming on its south. Are they willing to go to the mat for the sake of re-connecting to Azerbaijan? The Middle East has been coming to a hard boil for decades now. This conflict is probably going to push it closer towards spilling over.

In regards to NATO, that's a stickier situation than I think people are guessing. While I agree that neither America or the European powers are going to want to come to Turkey's aid if it starts trading blows with Russia because they want to invade the Armenians, people need to realize that this will probably spell the end for NATO itself. Sure, you can argue that Turkey is in the wrong. You can argue that most of NATO doesn't even really like Turkey.

But staying out of this fight will have the same result if the USA had not gotten involved in Vietnam; it will prove that the NATO members are not committed to the alliance. They will only show up if it's in their best interest. And that means that Eastern Europe will be left to its own devices if and when the Russians come for them. Ukraine wasn't technically a member. Turkey is a member, even if it's one no one actually cares for.

Now personally for me, that's not an issue. I think NATO has outlived its utility in the modern era. The US should in my mind, focus on keeping its presence in the Atlantic and the Pacific through alliances to the British and the Japanese (and friends) respectfully. We have no interest in this fight, so we should stay out of it.
 

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