Tucker Carlson Leaving Fox News

[AnimalNoodles]

yeah, you betray your inner thoughts in your very next response dude.

What precisely did I reveal?

That if Ukraine had kept out NATO influence, maintained a friendly posture with Russia and protected some the linguistic rights of its Russian population that there would never have been a war, and Ukraine would still be in possession of the Crimea?

Or that once they became a hostile American vassal state Russia would be forced to subjugate or destroy it since Ukraine is existential to Russia?

Like I said..Ukraine was better off with the Russians.

 

[colorles]

Yeah Putin's long answer on the history of everything leading up to this was pretty similar to the speech he gave on the eve of the Invasion IIRC. Except here he's going back to the 9th Century, instead of just the Cold War, so it's an even longer explanation to set up an actual answer.

Putin chose to provide that history of the Rus not only to provide a justification for why Ukraine is Russia...but more importantly given the audience is westerners most namely Americans, to provide said westerners with a history of Russia going back to it's spiritual founding...something most Americans have never heard before. Honestly how many viewers watching this interview, have any knowledge about the history of the Rus? I'd venture only a small minority and it is certainly not common knowledge in America.

Putin was giving the western audience a history lesson. history is context...something that is intentionally missing in the western consciousness.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Putin chose to provide that history of the Rus not only to provide a justification for why Ukraine is Russia...but more importantly given the audience is westerners most namely Americans, to provide said westerners with a history of Russia going back to it's spiritual founding...something most Americans have never heard before. Honestly how many viewers watching this interview, have any knowledge about the history of the Rus? I'd venture only a small minority and it is certainly not common knowledge in America.

Putin was giving the western audience a history lesson. history is context...something that is intentionally missing in the western consciousness.

That's fine but Tucker Carlson's first question was about why he said that he feared American was going to surprise attack Russia through NATO in his speech in February of 2022 and Putin replied he wanted to take thirty seconds to a minute to discuss the short historical reference of the situation.

Maybe it was a mistranslation and he meant to say thirty to sixty minutes.

As for something intentionally missing in the "Western consciousness" that goes without saying globally. That's 99% of all knowledge in the world, historical and otherwise.

 

[Blasterbot]

All excess and unneeded war supplies should be raffled off to the taxpayers who paid for it.

I'm only half joking.

nah hold an auction but only citizens can participate. bidding on the tanks and automatic guns would be wild.

 

[Husky_Khan]

nah hold an auction but only citizens can participate. bidding on the tanks and automatic guns would be wild.

But wouldn't that further imbalance power towards the wealthy?

 

[Blasterbot]

But wouldn't that further imbalance power towards the wealthy?

supply and demand. the reason automatic weapons are so expensive is only grandfathered in guns are in the pool. adding an actual supply of legal automatic weapons would drive the price down. as for the tanks? those are never not gonna be expensive especially with maintenance to consider. either you and your friends have to go in on it together to defray costs or you gotta be wealthy and have someone else to either drive it or aim the turret.

 

[ShieldWife]

But wouldn't that further imbalance power towards the wealthy?

No, the super wealthy already control all of the military hardware since they are the ones giving the orders to the politicians. This would make that hardware available to the moderately wealthy.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

What precisely did I reveal?

That if Ukraine had kept out NATO influence, maintained a friendly posture with Russia and protected some the linguistic rights of its Russian population that there would never have been a war, and Ukraine would still be in possession of the Crimea?

Or that once they became a hostile American vassal state Russia would be forced to subjugate or destroy it since Ukraine is existential to Russia?

Like I said..Ukraine was better off with the Russians.

☝️

I don't get Russian sympathizers anymore than I get the Ukraine hashtag warriors

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

You do realise ive been around in this little galaxy of forums for over 20 years and my views have never been a secret?

No I am not being paid.
No, I am not a Russiaboo, and aside from this war I have never expressed much interest in anything Russian in my posting history either here or on spacebattles.
Yes, I believe the USA is in the wrong in Ukraine.
Yes I believe the USA is run by psychopaths and pederasts who want to turn Ukraine into a colony and pillage it.
Yes, I believe The USA is knowingly and deliberately harming Europe, and Europe will never recover economically, culturally or demographically until the USA is ejected from the continent.
Yes, I think Ukraine would be better off as a Russian vassal than as an American Vassal

so what changed? Because you've gone from not interested to VERY interested pretty quickly relatively speaking.

 

[LordsFire]

You do realise ive been around in this little galaxy of forums for over 20 years and my views have never been a secret?

No I am not being paid.
No, I am not a Russiaboo, and aside from this war I have never expressed much interest in anything Russian in my posting history either here or on spacebattles.
Yes, I believe the USA is in the wrong in Ukraine.
Yes I believe the USA is run by psychopaths and pederasts who want to turn Ukraine into a colony and pillage it.
Yes, I believe The USA is knowingly and deliberately harming Europe, and Europe will never recover economically, culturally or demographically until the USA is ejected from the continent.
Yes, I think Ukraine would be better off as a Russian vassal than as an American Vassal

What precisely did I reveal?

That if Ukraine had kept out NATO influence, maintained a friendly posture with Russia and protected some the linguistic rights of its Russian population that there would never have been a war, and Ukraine would still be in possession of the Crimea?

Or that once they became a hostile American vassal state Russia would be forced to subjugate or destroy it since Ukraine is existential to Russia?

Like I said..Ukraine was better off with the Russians.

Given how literally insane most of this is (I agree there's far too many psychopaths and pederasts in the US leadership), I'd honestly think more of you if you were a paid shill. At least then there'd be some kind of self-interest in your bizzaro take on the war.

You are actively supporting the explicitly-expressed campaign of destruction against the nation and people of Ukraine. I understand that in your personal delusions, you don't think that's true, but that's what it is, a delusion.

I'll be trying to avoid engaging you on this subject again, since it's clear it's a waste of time.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

All excess and unneeded war supplies should be raffled off to the taxpayers who paid for it.

I'm only half joking.

Yes please, this conflict has eaten up the global surplus supply and I would really rather more get put on the market.
Seriously try to find some of the most basic shit, its getting rather hard, it's all been shipped off to Ukraine and Russia.

 

[Morphic Tide]

You are actively supporting the explicitly-expressed campaign of destruction against the nation and people of Ukraine. I understand that in your personal delusions, you don't think that's true, but that's what it is, a delusion.

The issue is that you and Bacle, among others, refuse any "it's not our business" reasoning. There was never any official alliance treaty with Ukraine, we've not signed anything to enter the war formally, the specific areas in contention are only so because of the dying days of the USSR actively sabotaging the satellite states.

What do we, the United States, gain from Ukraine properly winning this? All the reasons we, the United States have to be involved are quasi-imperial dick-waving fulfilled best by, as one the very leaders pushing it said, "fighting to the last Ukrainian". Absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine being an ally, only Russia being an enemy.

Which... Also isn't the case? They aren't the USSR, we had no reason to fuck them over and a lot of how the Soviet breakup went so smoothly was specifically because of informal promises, which we vigorously shat on not even five years later. The accusations of them fucking with our political system only post-date us stabbing the new leadership in the back in utter refusal to recognize an end to the Cold War, and most of the substantiation points towards raw shit-stirring rather than trying to steer in a specific direction.

If we didn't push NATO literally to their border, they'd not have much reason to get up to any of their bullshit because they wouldn't be under pressure. But instead, the entirety of the history of the Russian Federation has been the West constantly pushing them in a corner and responding with shock and disgust when they apply the hard power that's all they have to work with because they were never given a real chance to integrate.

It's not "The United States' War", it's not "The Plurality Of The Public's War", it's not even "A US Ally's War", it's the war of a handful of old foggies at the top obsessed with making all of our geopolitical decisions out to be domestic issues when they just aren't.

 

[Bacle]

The issue is that you and Bacle, among others, refuse any "it's not our business" reasoning. There was never any official alliance treaty with Ukraine

Budapest Memorandum, which saw Ukraine destroy it's heavy bomber fleet, not just give up it's nukes, in exchange for security gaurantees from the US, UK, and Russia. Those heavy bombers and the nukes Ukraine gave up would have secured it against the current invasion, but Ukraine decided to 'outsource' it's national security and this is what it has cost them in the long run.

As well, the idea that it's not our business is relying on actually believing Russia won't try again 2, 5, 10 years down the road. Until the Russian people, not just Putin, are broken of their imperial ambitions by being pushed out of Ukraine and made to pay for the damaged they caused, Russia should be treated like Mordor.

And that what you also want to ignore, what Russia wants is not just land, but permanent hooks in the UA political system to make it subordinate to Moscow the way Belarus is.

Ukraine doesn't want to become Belarus.

That is why we refuse that reasoning, when history has now shown that Ukraine has zero reason to trust security guarantees from Russia that allow Russia any control over it's internal processes.

 

[LordsFire]

What do we, the United States, gain from Ukraine properly winning this?

First off, Russia has Imperial Ambitions. Putin is on record as thinking that the break-up of the USSR was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century, or something to that effect. He wants to rebuild the Russian Empire, and he wants to rule the world's dominant power.

Everyone and anyone who doesn't want to be a subject of Russia, or part of a tributary state, has a vested interest in seeing the Russian invasion fail.


Second off, economically war is bad. Ukraine is one of the world's major providers of cheap grain and of fertilizer. Part of the reason for the instability in the ME during the Obama years was because of spikes in the cost of food causing political unrest, which has helped fuel terrorism and the invasion of immigrants into Europe, though that's far from the only cause. This is just one example of the economic effects and second-order political effects. For America, these consequences are mostly economic, but the political parts hit our allies as well.


Third off, the reason that Iran has been throwing its weight around, is partly because of demonstrated unwillingness to act on America's part, and this also makes the Chinese more likely to try military adventurism. This wouldn't have the direct cost of US deaths and casualties if we didn't have a crap-ton of military bases strewn across the middle east that shouldn't be there, but they'd still be hitting merchant shipping, and this again causes massive economic disruption.

If China hits Taiwan, the global microchip market is properly screwed, and that will do billions or trillions in economic damages, a significant portion of which will be felt by the US. Displaying an unwillingness to deter adventurism on the part of other would-be world hegemons encourages them to go play conqueror.


Fourth off, when nations with US backing and US military hardware can fend off much larger nations with their own massive military-industrial complex, this highlights the fact that US military power is by far the most potent in the world, and if you are a remotely rational actor, you do not want to even consider starting a direct fight with the USA. That won't stop crazy Jihadis, but it keeps people like Maduro or Erdogan from making unwise decisions about who they do and do not want to openly align themselves with or start shooting at.


Whether the USA wants to or not, it is a world where the game of empires is played, and as technology advanced across the 19th and 20th centuries, it became impossible to just opt out. The Atlantic is no longer a moat that takes weeks to cross, isolating us from the rest of the world, and Great Britain isn't capable of taking the world hegemon's mantle back from us and doing a decent job at it. If we don't act as world hegemon, Russia or China will take up that slot (Russia probably actually can't anymore, but they're the closest runner-up after China), and if they do they will wield that power to try and crush us.

Isolationism isn't an option, and until their imperial ambitions are broken, Russia must be fought somewhere. Better it's in Ukraine now, than in Moldovoa, or Estonia, or somewhere else later. The cost will be lower, and the end will come sooner.

 

[Abhorsen]

nah hold an auction but only citizens can participate. bidding on the tanks and automatic guns would be wild.

I'm against the US taxpayers paying for something twice. They already bought it. Just take each net dollar contributed that year as a raffle ticket. And only 1 item per person, then roll again on the list.

 

[Zachowon]

So which is? Is it that we're giving away old stuff that we're planning to throw out anyway or are we advertising to show off effectiveness and drive sales? Seems like you're walking back the comment I replied to.

Both.
We are getting rid of stuff our government does not allow us to legally use (our old cluster munitions) as well as stockpiles of expiring ammo like missiles and rockets and artillery. Because they do have a shelf life.
We are also using it as a test bed for actual combat capabilities if various systems.
Like HIMARS and the various missiles it can fire.
like the one way attack drones we have them.
we are using it as a test bed for EW, AD, even simpler stuff like jist how a modern war would be fought.

Both things are true which is the point. It isn't just the US offloading weapons it was planning to discard, the fact it's "both" is proof that line was total bullshit.


I'm responding to this

Nit really. The vast majority of the stuff we sent, was stuff being off loaded.
The ammunition, cluster munitions, the Brad's, the 113s, the Humvees, a lot of the small arms.
The amount the US has in stockpiles is truly unknown even to the US military.

And yes we sent some not discarded weapons, due to the capability they present and have shown to be effective, helping make it known why they exist

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The issue is that you and Bacle, among others, refuse any "it's not our business" reasoning. There was never any official alliance treaty with Ukraine, we've not signed anything to enter the war formally, the specific areas in contention are only so because of the dying days of the USSR actively sabotaging the satellite states.

What do we, the United States, gain from Ukraine properly winning this? All the reasons we, the United States have to be involved are quasi-imperial dick-waving fulfilled best by, as one the very leaders pushing it said, "fighting to the last Ukrainian". Absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine being an ally, only Russia being an enemy.

Which... Also isn't the case? They aren't the USSR, we had no reason to fuck them over and a lot of how the Soviet breakup went so smoothly was specifically because of informal promises, which we vigorously shat on not even five years later. The accusations of them fucking with our political system only post-date us stabbing the new leadership in the back in utter refusal to recognize an end to the Cold War, and most of the substantiation points towards raw shit-stirring rather than trying to steer in a specific direction.

If we didn't push NATO literally to their border, they'd not have much reason to get up to any of their bullshit because they wouldn't be under pressure. But instead, the entirety of the history of the Russian Federation has been the West constantly pushing them in a corner and responding with shock and disgust when they apply the hard power that's all they have to work with because they were never given a real chance to integrate.

It's not "The United States' War", it's not "The Plurality Of The Public's War", it's not even "A US Ally's War", it's the war of a handful of old foggies at the top obsessed with making all of our geopolitical decisions out to be domestic issues when they just aren't.

it's kind of hard to claim "not our business" and then turn around and cheer for Russia. And Putin is a former KGB who still longs for the days of the glory days of the USSR I don't trust him as far as I can fly from him. To be fair I don't trust Ukraine either I think one of the best things that can happen for both Russia and Ukraine is a revolution and balkanization, but let's not pretend Putin is somehow any more based than his enemies because he can play the propaganda game better.

 

[strunkenwhite]

If we didn't push NATO literally to their border, they'd not have much reason to get up to any of their bullshit because they wouldn't be under pressure. But instead, the entirety of the history of the Russian Federation has been the West constantly pushing them in a corner and responding with shock and disgust when they apply the hard power that's all they have to work with because they were never given a real chance to integrate.

NATO expansion may be a valid gripe (for a sufficiently imperialistic definition of valid) before 2014, but doesn't really hold water when it comes to the present crisis. If you want to argue that NATO expansion is relevant insofar as maybe Russian leadership would be less psychopathic if NATO expansion hadn't happened ... maybe? But maybe not. You'd have to do a lot of work on establishing that counterfactual given Russian history, I think.

 

[Zachowon]

This conflict shows why the expansion was necessary

 

[Husky_Khan]

Really Tucker? Your going to interview the guy who invaded Spain and wants to bring Sicily back under the control of baby sacrificing Barbarians?



Not to mention their infamous mercenary operations around the known world.

You know what the Republic should do with traitors...