Planchar
Professional Propofol Pusher
Sorry I didn’t see this can I get a link thanks
Breaking News Trump Impeachment 2: Electric Boogaloo
- Thread starter Zachowon
- Start date
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Perhaps; but personally, I don't think it matters either way. Trump will be impeached regardless of how good his defense is.
No, it's going to be close. And a good defense one can politically hide behind is worth a lot, as politicians are valuing the Trump vote. But if you don't give someone a reason not to vote to convict, they might just vote to convict.
LindyAF
Well-known member
Trump was already impeached for the second time, but I would be very surprised if he was convicted. My understanding is that they need a 2/3 majority. Only 6 Republican senators defected on whether or not the impeachment was even constitutional. How many are really going to vote that impeachment is unconstitutional and then vote to convict anyway?
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 6 that defected don't vote to convict, so they don't have to defend voting to convict during a primary challenge, but at the DC cocktail circuit can still say "Well you know I would have, but it's just my constituents..."
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 6 that defected don't vote to convict, so they don't have to defend voting to convict during a primary challenge, but at the DC cocktail circuit can still say "Well you know I would have, but it's just my constituents..."
As opposed to Trump repeatedly calling for Hillary Clinton to be "locked up" long after she was no longer Secretary of State, despite *how many* investigations failing to find actionable wrongdoing?
In such a situation, he was not a private citizen *at the time he committed the crime*, thus he could not be charged with a crime for it.
Actually they did find actionable wrongdoing... They just choose not to take action on it.
Just the server with classified info on it alone would have been enough to have anyone not named Hillary Clinton to loose basically their everything. This can be confirmed by talking to anyone with an actual classification level.
Basileus_Komnenos
Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαίων
Unlike with Trump, various Democrat politicians at the state level have begun their attempt to go after him. Cuomo at one point threatened him saying something along the lines of "he'll need a police escort the next time he's in NYC." Keep in mind that this was when Trump was a sitting President. Do you see Cuomo facing any legal ramifications from this? Of course not.
Its honestly the spineless GOP that irritates me more.
I feel pretty bad for Trump's youngest son and his grandkids though, as his last name's probably going to bring a lot of toxic vitriol towards them. The children of political figures have the spotlight thrust on them as a result of their parents' actions for better, or for worse.
Just look at the juxtaposition between President Reagan and his kids as for how they ended up.
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As someone with a clearance.
Yes for sure. Especially since iirc it was in thier house, and thier house doesn't have the proper things to be a secured facility
Airedale260
Well-known member
It’s a glorified censure vote, but instead of a censure which would be a pretty much clear cut “you’re an asshole, knock it the fuck off”, the Democrats went with outright impeachment on the basis of “If we can pressure the GOP into convicting, it keeps Trump out of office forever and if they don’t convict, we have attack ads ready to go for 2022.” Never mind that this was another shitty impeachment job since it wasn’t really meant as more than virtue signaling.
Look, I get that you have this weird obsession with the Roman Republic but it’s a very different animal from the modern United States in multiple ways:
1) It was really all about a single city-state where a vast majority of its inhabitants didn’t actually have a vote
2) Its political leadership was an aristocracy where families married into one another just like the various European noble and royal houses of the old days, rather than actually someplace where people could run on merit. This includes your beloved Gracchi, who were actually members of a very old Roman noble house, just one that happened to have both plebeian and patrician branches. They were most definitely not common folk; hell, their maternal grandfather was the war hero Scipio Africanus. They may have been a bit too idealistic, but they were also completely oblivious to how Roman society as a whole increasingly viewed them as a threat to the Republic. What the Gracchi really kickstarted were the idea of using the mob as a political force, rather than any actual concepts of “listening to the public” which the Gracchi didn’t do anywhere near as well as they believed.
Honestly, if history is any indication as we’ve seen in 1775-1800, 1840-1865, and 1920-1945, it’s that we go through cycles of political turmoil in the U.S. when faced with a major crisis, but only once has it resulted in civil war, and that was when most people viewed the United States as something akin to the European Union rather than a single country. What we are undergoing is a political sea change as the country tries to adapt to a new reality since what worked in 1945 no longer works today, and those who came up in the system are thrown for a loop because they don’t know how else to respond.
You can’t charge someone with something they couldn’t be charged for at the time; that’s a basic legal principle in the U.S. We do actually have precedents for federal officials being impeached after being removed from office; in fact, there was some suggestion floating around in 2016-2018 that if Hillary couldn’t be prosecuted for what she did in court, she could be impeached and the truth of what happened could come out...BUT that would have interfered with Trump’s ability to get things done, not to mention there’s a general sense that if someone’s lost a presidential general election, their career is toast, so it comes off as just gilding the lily rather than a serious effort...especially when it would have been all over the news as a blatant political move regerdless of its merit.
Part of that is that Trump has a reliable track record of screwing over every lawyer who doesn’t give him 100% of the results he wants, so most lawyers won’t take him on as a client because he’s already shafted them before. And plenty of others either don’t want their name associated with this whole mess, or they don’t agree with Trump’s legal “strategy” (in this particular instance, claiming he did nothing wrong at all and that the election was totally stolen, which a majority of the country thinks is BS). Note that the latter reason is why his first defense team resigned
As I said above, it was a political calculation since it would have been seen as beating a dead horse, much like this is. While it might have been satisfying on a partisan basis, there’s also the fact that a fair amount of people thought that her getting the nomination she’d wanted for her entire career, only to lose and to lose it to a man she despised as beneath her, was enough of a punishment.
And honestly, while I supported the idea of impeaching Trump in the immediate aftermath, the way that it was handled with Pelosi’s stunts and lack of seriousness in making a case have made me reassess and go “You know what, him being voted out of office and then being banned from social media is enough.” Trump can’t get anywhere near the level of coverage and attention he craves, and for a narcissist like him, that’s pretty much the definition of hell.
Speaking of impeachment, has anyone else found it incredibly ironic that one of the managers for the Democrats is Eric “I was compromised by a ChiCom honey trap” Swalwell?
Planchar
Professional Propofol Pusher
Admittedly there is a little bit of a gray area legally. However, only a sitting president cannot be indicted. There is nothing to say that a former president can’t be indicted. Hence why Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon.
Hillary Clinton - they need just lock her for one of her arkansides.But Trump failed to get good cops for that.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
And it only took 4 years and a Biden to do it.
Good, I hope there's good stuff for me to review later!
Speaking of lies, I saw an interesting article on NR about an element of the house's case, namely the death of capital police officer Sicknick.
Initial reports said he was beaten during the riot and later passed away from his injuries. This turned out to not be the case, he was apparently fine (the only hard evidence that's publicly available is some texts he sent his family after the riot was over, which said he was fine), and according to unnamed sources, the medical examiner didn't find any blunt force trauma injuries. He just died for some reason at some point on the 7th and no one has explained why.
This is notable because, as the articles notes, the house impeachment case is sticking with the original story, meaning they are either lying, not doing their due diligence when it comes to making their case, or are in possession of information that has been denied to the public.
As for the overall impeachment and charges, I'm starting to think that making the impeachment process a political one instead of a judicial one was a mistake on the part of the founders. We've had, debatably, one impeachment conducted for something that even vaguely resembles an actual criminal act, and that was Clinton, who was indicted for lying to congress, something that everyone does all the time (or suddenly develops crippling memory problems and are unable to recall a single thing). All of the rest have been done out of purely spiteful partisanship, and only one of them had any chance of actually working, and that was Johnson. Congress, particularly this congress, has proven beyond any doubt that they are not capable of exercising this power responsibly, and IMO the only recourse should be to strip that power from them. If the president has committed crimes, that's impeachable, and the decision of if he's done so and what should happen should be handled by the court system, not congress.
Initial reports said he was beaten during the riot and later passed away from his injuries. This turned out to not be the case, he was apparently fine (the only hard evidence that's publicly available is some texts he sent his family after the riot was over, which said he was fine), and according to unnamed sources, the medical examiner didn't find any blunt force trauma injuries. He just died for some reason at some point on the 7th and no one has explained why.
This is notable because, as the articles notes, the house impeachment case is sticking with the original story, meaning they are either lying, not doing their due diligence when it comes to making their case, or are in possession of information that has been denied to the public.
As for the overall impeachment and charges, I'm starting to think that making the impeachment process a political one instead of a judicial one was a mistake on the part of the founders. We've had, debatably, one impeachment conducted for something that even vaguely resembles an actual criminal act, and that was Clinton, who was indicted for lying to congress, something that everyone does all the time (or suddenly develops crippling memory problems and are unable to recall a single thing). All of the rest have been done out of purely spiteful partisanship, and only one of them had any chance of actually working, and that was Johnson. Congress, particularly this congress, has proven beyond any doubt that they are not capable of exercising this power responsibly, and IMO the only recourse should be to strip that power from them. If the president has committed crimes, that's impeachable, and the decision of if he's done so and what should happen should be handled by the court system, not congress.
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Yeah when you know how everyone is going to vote ahead of time it's a sham.