Versus Match Triple Alien Alliance in 40k

[Scooby Doo]

Well for that we'd have to do some math using data we don't have; but we can make some assumptions. There being most of a star is a given, but the size of the star is going to be in question.

The most common mass of a star is .29 stellar masses, so 29% the size of Sol, this would be an M type star. Sol puts out 4.5x1026 W, or 450,000,000,000,000 Terawatts. Over the course of an hour, it thus puts out... 387,189,292.54302 Teratons Of TNT

Now obviously the attack doesn't last for an hour, so we can divide that by 60 twice to get how much it puts out in a second bringing us to 107,552.58126195 Teratons of TNT per second. Now we take 25% of that, as energy output is directly related to temperature and that's directly related to mass and surface area and that means at 1/3 the mass you get about 1/4th the output(give or take, the actual math is a lot more complicated but I don't want to do that right now) and we end up with a total yield of the laser being 26,888.1453154875 Teratons of TNT per second of firing.

So instead of... megatons, you have about 27,000 teratons of tnt.

Now keep in mind, it takes 50,000 Teratons Of TNT to completely blow up a plant. Meaning that after firing this thing for two seconds enough energy is put out to blow up Earth. Even if they can only output 1% of this thing over 1ms you still get 2.7 Teratons of output.

This is such a god damn insane weapon that it would obliterate more or less any capital ship of any faction in 40k, and a shitload of them outside of 40k too.

And that's with a small star, the smallest type of star possible. If the stars used were the size of Sol or bigger the energy output increases dramatically!

This thing is only outclassed by the fucking Death Star in terms of raw destructive output in popular media and it's fucking battlefield capable, you can use it while on the surface of the planet. Well, they can anyway, they don't really worry too much about the thermal bloom or radiation emitted by firing it.

Uh no where does it say it's a full or significant fraction of a stars mass tho, it says fraction. The fact it isn't mentioned to destroy capital ships only Titans kinda signify it's not in that range unless you're referring to a different source because what you posted didn't even infer half of what you said.

 

[Zachowon]

Because it is a ground weapon.
They don't even use it for space combat.
They have other things

 

[Scooby Doo]

Because it is a ground weapon.
They don't even use it for space combat.
They have other things

If it's a ground based weapon then it's very obviously not hitting with teratons because the splash back would kill the user and destroy the continent they're on.


Sooooo Vyor just made up numbers?
Thank you for confirming

 

[Vyor]

Uh no where does it say it's a full or significant fraction of a stars mass tho, it says fraction. The fact it isn't mentioned to destroy capital ships only Titans kinda signify it's not in that range unless you're referring to a different source because what you posted didn't even infer half of what you said.

It says it destroys the entire start to get it, ergo it's likely most of the star's mass.

If it's a ground based weapon then it's very obviously not hitting with teratons because the splash back would kill the user and destroy the continent they're on.


Sooooo Vyor just made up numbers?
Thank you for confirming

... Necrons do not care about the splash back because they are either mindless or because they are machines.

And it's a plasma weapon, it over penetrates. It would hit what its targeted at, destroy it, and keep going.

 

[Scooby Doo]

It says it destroys the entire start to get it, ergo it's likely most of the star's mass.

That doesn't make sense if it destroys the entire star why would most of the star remain?

If anything it's an unknown fraction you can just as argue it's a tiny fraction and it likely is considering it's only mentioned to deal with Titans not Capital Ships.

... Necrons do not care about the splash back because they are either mindless or because they are machines.

That doesn't matter, the device obviously can't withstand that amount of fire power so it's not realizing Teratons.

And it's a plasma weapon, it over penetrates. It would hit what its targeted at, destroy it, and keep going.

A plasma weapon still generates heat, are you arguing all the heat remains with in the beam?

 

[Vyor]

That doesn't make sense if it destroys the entire star why would most of the star remain?

Because ripping out the star's core will destroy the star as a whole but leave you with like 90-80% of the mass?

A plasma weapon still generates heat, are you arguing all the heat remains with in the beam?

The vast, vast, vast majority of it, yes.

That doesn't matter, the device obviously can't withstand that amount of fire power so it's not realizing Teratons.

So because a gun can't take a bullet means the gun can't fire a bullet? A .50BMG sniper rifle is instantly destroyed by .50BMG sniper fire, this does not mean it can't fire a .50BMG bullet.

Also? You claimed that Eldar do not have spirit stone piloted weapons platforms?

Wraithguard - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

Wraithlord - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

I once again note: you know nothing about 40k.

 

[Zachowon]

If it's a ground based weapon then it's very obviously not hitting with teratons because the splash back would kill the user and destroy the continent they're on.


Sooooo Vyor just made up numbers?
Thank you for confirming

The necrons literally do not care for splashback.
They are deathless.

Literally necrons are willing to sacrifice it's population because they can be revived and made again

Because ripping out the star's core will destroy the star as a whole but leave you with like 90-80% of the mass?



The vast, vast, vast majority of it, yes.



So because a gun can't take a bullet means the gun can't fire a bullet? A .50BMG sniper rifle is instantly destroyed by .50BMG sniper fire, this does not mean it can't fire a .50BMG bullet.

Also? You claimed that Eldar do not have spirit stone piloted weapons platforms?

Wraithguard - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

Wraithlord - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

I once again note: you know nothing about 40k.

He owns a codex! He must know something

 

[Vyor]

He owns a codex! He must know something

Assuming he isn't lying about that.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Because ripping out the star's core will destroy the star as a whole but leave you with like 90-80% of the mass?

Citation for 90-80%?

The vast, vast, vast majority of it, yes.

Citation? Or more made up stuff

So because a gun can't take a bullet means the gun can't fire a bullet? A .50BMG sniper rifle is instantly destroyed by .50BMG sniper fire, this does not mean it can't fire a .50BMG bullet.

More like the description in your source is not what you said it is

Also? You claimed that Eldar do not have spirit stone piloted weapons platforms?

Wraithguard - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

Wraithlord - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

No I claimed Eldar Titans aren't entirely ghost piloted like you lied and said they were.

I once again note: you know nothing about 40k.

I as a matter of fact do, literally every time you've opened your mouth in the topic it's been disingenuous the feat in question not as you claimed it was

The necrons literally do not care for splashback.
They are deathless.

Literally necrons are willing to sacrifice it's population because they can be revived and made again

He owns a codex! He must know something

Assuming he isn't lying about that.

Now unlike both of you, I actually own source material and have read it. If the Necrons and Eldars were as you described they were they wouldn't be able to be defeated by Tyranids or Admech.


Everything you mentioned is either taken out of context or outright false.

 

[Vyor]

Citation for 90-80%?

I'm going to be honest, I can't find it. Not that it matters much, the entire star in one with a mass that low is a core so... Eh? But ok, let's look at how much mass is lost every year by a star and see if we can't figure out how much mass being taken at once is enough to destroy one.

(2–3)×10^−14 M☉/year

So... a very small percentage of the sun's mass, but that's fine; it's easy enough to calculate. And that's supposed to be 2 to 3 not negative 1, no I don't know why such was expressed that way but we can take the median of 2.5 which gets us:
0.000000000000025

Moving the decimal over twice gets us... 0.0000000000025% of its mass every year. Now this is... actually quite a lot of energy by itself, 4.3 million tons per second just in fusion alone which turns into the equivalent of 4 trillion Hiroshima bombs every second, or about 15kilotons*4trillion... 60,000 Teratons Of TNT a second.

Ok, great, now we take 25% of that and then 1% of that result to get... 150 teratons of tnt over 1 second. Now, for that 1ms pulse... 15 teratons.

that's... not even all that's fused in a single year, as noted, that's just what's fused in a single second from SOL and then divided by mass and then a pathetically low conversion rate on the output.

This is less than it would take to destroy a star in stellar capture and it's still in the teraton range. Note that this is actually higher than what I stated above because now you're directly using fusing mass instead of letting it get re-radiated by other atoms. Now, most of this energy would still be neutrinos , so let's say, oh, 99% of it is wasted. Being generous to you.

150 Gigatons Of TNT for a ms burst. Even at 99.99% of the energy turning into neutrinos you're still at 1.5 gigatons of tnt.

Now unlike both of you, I actually own source material and have read it. If the Necrons and Eldars were as you described they were they wouldn't be able to be defeated by Tyranids or Admech.

The necrons have literally never lost to nids.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I'm going to be honest, I can't find it. Not that it matters much, the entire star in one with a mass that low is a core so... Eh? But ok, let's look at how much mass is lost every year by a star and see if we can't figure out how much mass being taken at once is enough to destroy one.

(2–3)×10^−14 M☉/year

So... a very small percentage of the sun's mass, but that's fine; it's easy enough to calculate. And that's supposed to be 2 to 3 not negative 1, no I don't know why such was expressed that way but we can take the median of 2.5 which gets us:
0.000000000000025

Moving the decimal over twice gets us... 0.0000000000025% of its mass every year. Now this is... actually quite a lot of energy by itself, 4.3 million tons per second just in fusion alone which turns into the equivalent of 4 trillion Hiroshima bombs every second, or about 15kilotons*4trillion... 60,000 Teratons Of TNT a second.

Ok, great, now we take 25% of that and then 1% of that result to get... 150 teratons of tnt over 1 second. Now, for that 1ms pulse... 15 teratons.

that's... not even all that's fused in a single year, as noted, that's just what's fused in a single second from SOL and then divided by mass and then a pathetically low conversion rate on the output.

This is less than it would take to destroy a star in stellar capture and it's still in the teraton range. Note that this is actually higher than what I stated above because now you're directly using fusing mass instead of letting it get re-radiated by other atoms. Now, most of this energy would still be neutrinos , so let's say, oh, 99% of it is wasted. Being generous to you.

So no actual figure, again. You expect me to take your figures seriously when you don't even have a source that states any quantifiable number not even a feat like oh this weapon glassed a continent

Sorry buddy but it tops out at casual Titan busting so Megatons at best

150 Gigatons Of TNT for a ms burst. Even at 99.99% of the energy turning into neutrinos you're still at 1.5 gigatons of tnt.

Source?

The necrons have literally never lost to nids.

Charnovokh Dynasty says Hi

 

[Zachowon]

The Necrons are hated by the Tyranids because they are metal and can't be eaten.

The necrons literally have the ability to casually destroy a solar system with a specific orray. They also have Mr fuckung Pokémon.

 

[Scooby Doo]

The Necrons are hated by the Tyranids because they are metal and can't be eaten.

Okay?

They still get defeated, the Necrons are more dangerous in space then they are on the ground.

The necrons literally have the ability to casually destroy a solar system with a specific orray. They also have Mr fuckung Pokémon.

Okay so they have one Wonder Weapon that has an extremely limited amount of uses, that'd be useful against small Empire not large ones.

If they could abuse the Orray one Necron Dynasty would solo all the Hive fleets in a day.

 

[Vyor]

Source?

Literally math.

Charnovokh Dynasty says Hi

Charnovokh Dynasty - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

As a result, many of its dormant Tomb Worlds were devoured by the Tyranid Hive Fleet Behemoth while countless others have been ravaged in counterattacks against the Tyranids by the Imperium.

I've made it really easy to see there. See the word? That means they weren't even fighting back because they were fucking asleep.

But now? Now they are awake. Because the Silent King is back. Do you know what the Silent King has? A gun that uses the power of a god.

Sceptre of Eternal Glory - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

He also has a really fancy chair that's powered by the same god:

Dias of Dominion - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

It creates bubbles of warped time to stop attacks. It also comes with two Triarchal Menhir, which have Annihilator Beams. What do those do? Exactly what they say!

All the while a pair ofTriarchal Menhirs orbit Szarekhs dais, proclaiming the Triarch's omnipotent might even as they channel the dais' power. By focusing the resonance ofthese devices, Szarekh can unleash a devastating annihilator beam, an energy weapon so potent that it has been likened to the hurled spear of an enraged god. None who feel its wrath live to tell the tale.

Kill things. Every thing hit dies, page 31 of necron 9th edition codex for that and the next quotes:

The martial might ofthe Final Triarch, at least, is beyond question. Szarekhs dais is empowered by a caged shard of Nyadrazatha himself, while the Silent King's mantle is formed from the C'tan's flensed necrodermis. It is the Burning One's own fire that Szarekh amplifies through his regal Sceptre of Eternal Glory, sending it blazing forth in searing beams of absolute destruction. That same energy is channelled into the potent carrier-wave generators ofthe dais that coordinate and motivate nearby Necron soldiery, and also into the noctilith beacons held high above Szarekhs throne. These beacons not only banish the infernal energies ofthe warp, but also allow the Silent King to tear open the invisible skeins ofthe webway, fashioning his own temporary dolmen gates to bear him swiftly across vast interstellar gulfs. Those foes not erased by Szarekhs energy blasts are far from safe. While Hapthatra unleashes flurries of neutron-orbs from the Staff of Stars, Mesophet hefts the Scythe of Dust, every swing of its glimmering blade reducing victims to swirling clouds of scorched particles. Enemies who get close enough to strike at Szarekh directly are forced to their knees by the thrumming energies of his dais' obeisance generators. Even those blows that manage to hit home are unlikely to do harm - the Silent King and his companions are swathed in a transtemporal field that scatters the force ofthe foe's attacks, and thus dissipates them harmlessly.

He's as tough as a C´tan, and he just... deletes what he hits.

The admech have nothing, nothing on this level of tech. It uses something that eats stars as its power source.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Literally math.

A bunch of randomly thrown numbers isn't a source.

Charnovokh Dynasty - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

I've made it really easy to see there. See the word? That means they weren't even fighting back because they were fucking asleep.

So they didn't wake up at all when attacked?
But y'all were saying a single ship passing by can wake them up, so millions of ships destroying hundreds of their planets failed to wake a single one up?


Hmmm something's not adding up.

But now? Now they are awake. Because the Silent King is back. Do you know what the Silent King has? A gun that uses the power of a god.

Sceptre of Eternal Glory - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

He also has a really fancy chair that's powered by the same god:

Dias of Dominion - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

It creates bubbles of warped time to stop attacks. It also comes with two Triarchal Menhir, which have Annihilator Beams. What do those do? Exactly what they say!


Kill things. Every thing hit dies, page 31 of necron 9th edition codex for that and the next quotes:


He's as tough as a C´tan, and he just... deletes what he hits.

The admech have nothing, nothing on this level of tech. It uses something that eats stars as its power source.

Cool, I mean sure he's powerful but a unprepared squad of random unoteworthy Magos can take out a Ct'an Shard.


There's a lot more Magos then there are Necrons in the caliber of the Silent King. Don't act like even one out of every million are on his level

 

[Vyor]

Cool, I mean sure he's powerful but a unprepared squad of random unoteworthy Magos can take out a Ct'an Shard.

You can't actually kill a c`tan without causing some... really bad things to happen. The last time it happened the Flayer Virus was unleased. The c`tan didn't even do it on purpose, it was just an affect of it dying.

So no, magos can not in fact kill them in lore. In a non-canon video game? Sure. Not in lore.

Not that Magos are exactly the standard grunts of the mechanicus, they're actually pretty close to the Imperium's Custodes in terms of "how scary they are".

Or a couple dozen necron.

Because, uh, this is the standard weapon:

Gauss Weapons

Gauss Weapons are a form of exotic directed energy weapon used exclusively by the ancient and extremely powerful xenos species called the Necrons. These weapons destroy the enemy by firing a green-tinged blast of lightning-like energy that shears apart the target's atomic bonds, literally...

warhammer40k.fandom.com

The Imperium of Man is confounded by the nature of the energy used by these weapons, not only because the most basic weaponry of the Necrons can cause great harm to even the most advanced vehicles deployed by the armed forces of the Imperium, but also because by all the physical principles known, these weapons should overheat and malfunction as a result of the tremendous energies they unleash, destroying the warrior who is firing it.

This has been proven many times by the Tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus who have examined captured Necron weaponry, and yet the Necrons have perfected this unknown technology which is based on scientific principles that were either never discovered or have long been lost to Mankind.

Gauss Weapons have been known to hurt monstrous creatures that similar weapons have no hope of even scratching, and have also been documented tearing at the armour of even the most heavily armoured of tanks and starship hulls with ease.

This is the most basic weapon the necrons have and the Mechanicus does not understand it.

A bunch of randomly thrown numbers isn't a source.

Those were not randomly thrown. That was taking the principles the weapon works off of and extrapolating unknown information from it. This is one of the most basic things in VS debates because 99.9% of weapons do not have a stated yield. It's the same as saying that the Death Star superlaser has the equivalent yield of 50,000 Teratons Of TNT because that's what it takes to blow up an earth sized planet(note: this is most certainly a lower bounds estimate because we don't know how fast the ejection material was going).

When simply building a weapon destroys entire stars and uses stellar material in its makeup... expect big as fuck numbers.

 

[Scooby Doo]

You can't actually kill a c`tan without causing some... really bad things to happen. The last time it happened the Flayer Virus was unleased. The c`tan didn't even do it on purpose, it was just an affect of it dying.

So no, magos can not in fact kill them in lore. In a non-canon video game? Sure. Not in lore.

There is no canon hierarchy in 40k everything is equally canon, cope .

Not that Magos are exactly the standard grunts of the mechanicus, they're actually pretty close to the Imperium's Custodes in terms of "how scary they are".

Or a couple dozen necron.

Because, uh, this is the standard weapon:

Gauss Weapons

Gauss Weapons are a form of exotic directed energy weapon used exclusively by the ancient and extremely powerful xenos species called the Necrons. These weapons destroy the enemy by firing a green-tinged blast of lightning-like energy that shears apart the target's atomic bonds, literally...

warhammer40k.fandom.com

This is the most basic weapon the necrons have and the Mechanicus does not understand it.

Uh they do understand it

In fact they go slaughter happy on Necron forces and it's only the top Honchos that give them any difficulty

And this was a single ship with most of its supplies thrown out the airlock from the warp and simultaneously dealing with Hereteks attacking their ship.

Still clapped the Hereteks and Necrons without outside reinforcement.

Less than a Hundred tech priests total

Edit: Man you really don't know how OP the Ad Mech are do you? I have the codex and I haven't even touched their broken shit yet.

This is just covering basic stuff of the Admech that you weren't even aware lmao.

I frankly think you don't know a dang thing about the Admech.

Those were not randomly thrown. That was taking the principles the weapon works off of and extrapolating unknown information from it. This is one of the most basic things in VS debates because 99.9% of weapons do not have a stated yield. It's the same as saying that the Death Star superlaser has the equivalent yield of 50,000 Teratons Of TNT because that's what it takes to blow up an earth sized planet(note: this is most certainly a lower bounds estimate because we don't know how fast the ejection material was going).

When simply building a weapon destroys entire stars and uses stellar material in its makeup... expect big as fuck numbers.

Where are these numbers stated in the Codex or source material?

 

[Vyor]

There is no canon hierarchy in 40k everything is equally canon, cope .

Brr, wrong.

The books are all equally canon. The Codex's are on top of the books and the games are lower than the books.

Uh they do understand it

That... does not say they understand it, just that they know a weapon works faster than it? If they could understand gauss weapons, why can't they make them?

 

[Scooby Doo]

Brr, wrong.

The books are all equally canon. The Codex's are on top of the books and the games are lower than the books.

According to who lmao?
Are you the authority on what is canon and not?


Warhammer40k Mechanicus storyline was literally written by Ben Counter, who you probably don't even know.

Get back to me when you actually read the lore and not parrot personal head canon

That... does not say they understand it, just that they know a weapon works faster than it? If they could understand gauss weapons, why can't they make them?

That literally says them understanding it and even the chances of survival.

Oh also HUR DUR, WHY DOES THE RELIGIOUS ZEALOT MECHANICUS NOT COMMIT TECH HERESY????

Please stop talking about Admech you clearly know absolutely nothing about them and are just clutching at straws trying to argue random shit about a faction you just found on a wiki page.

 

[Vyor]

Warhammer40k Mechanicus storyline was literally written by Ben Counter, who you probably don't even know.

Irrelevant to the codexes?

That literally says them understanding it and even the chances of survival.

That says they know what it does, not how it works.

Oh also HUR DUR, WHY DOES THE RELIGIOUS ZEALOT MECHANICUS NOT COMMIT TECH HERESY????

What an idiotic statement.

The game you are citing is literally about the mechanicus raiding a necron tomb world for its technology.