Transgender Rights

[Ixian]

It's all three of those things.

It isn't.

Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children. "Child" isn't the equivalent of "Male" or "Female".

Child is a generalized age bracket, not a gender.

A gay male pedophile may be willing to rape a female child, that doesn't make them straight, at most it makes them bisexual.

So once more to clarify, sexual orientation is based on what sex you are attracted towards, not what age.

The sheer number of people trying to normalize pedophilia as a sexual orientation is sickening.

 

[evilchumlee]

So once more to clarify, sexual orientation is based on what sex you are attracted towards, not what age.

Ok, we can use a different phrase. "Sexual preference".

A gay male pedophile may be willing to rape a female child, that doesn't make them straight, at most it makes them bisexual.

That was... what I said.

A straight male pedophile willing to rape a male child doesn't make them gay. I don't even really think it makes them bisexual. The attraction was "child". Gender is largely irrelevant.

 

[Ixian]

Ok, we can use a different phrase. "Sexual preference".



That was... what I said.

A straight male pedophile willing to rape a male child doesn't make them gay. I don't even really think it makes them bisexual. The attraction was "child". Gender is largely irrelevant.

A male, who rapes a male child, is gay and a pedophile, perhaps bisexual and a pedophile if they also rape female children.

Pedophilia is a mental illness that causes someone to be attracted to prepubescent bodies, it doesn't overwrite Sex/Gender preferences.

How is this even a debate, by equating pedophilia with homosexuality you are either normalizing pedophilia, or saying very unkind things about homosexuality.

This is LGBTQ++++ Sex Cult ideology at work.

 

[evilchumlee]

How is this even a debate, by equating pedophilia with homosexuality you are either normalizing pedophilia, or saying very unkind things about homosexuality.

This is LGBTQ++++ Sex Cult ideology at work.

I'm doing neither.

Pedophilia is more complicated that simple "gay" or "straight". That's the point.

I'm in absolutely no way defending pedos in any way shape or form. I was defending gay people from the absolute wacked out homophobia here.

It's not ok to be a pedo. It IS ok to be gay. Being gay isn't some threat to children, because... gay people aren't actually any more likely to be pedos than straight people.

 

[Ixian]

I'm doing neither.

Pedophilia is more complicated that simple "gay" or "straight". That's the point.

I'm in absolutely no way defending pedos in any way shape or form. I was defending gay people from the absolute wacked out homophobia here.

It's not ok to be a pedo. It IS ok to be gay. Being gay isn't some threat to children, because... gay people aren't actually any more likely to be pedos than straight people.

Quote where I or anyone else said it isn't okay to be gay in this discussion, because I don't recall that, but maybe I missed it.

And yeah you are, either you are saying that pedophilia is the equivalent of a gay orientation and just as legitimate, or you are saying homosexuality is a mental illness like pedophilia.

I also don't believe you are attempting to defend pedophiles, I think you've just been fooled by new age leftist sex cult propaganda.

As to gay people not being more likely to be pedophiles, thats only true if you operate off your assumption that being a pedophile overrides a person's gender/sex preferences.

Otherwise the % of gay pedophiles to regular gay individuals is... well higher that it should be for such a minority group.

 

[evilchumlee]

And yeah you are, either you are saying that pedophilia is the equivalent of a gay orientation and just as legitimate, or you are saying homosexuality is a mental illness like pedophilia.

That is some twisted logic there.

It is not the equivalent of a gay orientation, nor is homosexuality a mental illness.

We can walk it back here... using the phrase "Sexual Orientation" isn't as precise as it could be. "Sexual Preference" might be more appropriate.

I'm not 100% sure "mental illness" is the correct word. We tend to throw that around willy nilly today as a stand in for "Things I don't like or are otherwise unacceptable". Homosexuality was, until fairly recently, classified as a mental illness. People see trans people as having a mental illness.

Pedophiles... are sexually attracted to children. It's completely unacceptable, but is it "mentally ill"? I say it's a mental illness myself sometimes but i'm not sure I actually mean that literally. It's more... a deviancy that is a crime and unacceptable requiring help to suppress or deal with.

As to gay people not being more likely to be pedophiles, thats only true if you operate off your assumption that being a pedophile overrides a person's gender/sex preferences.

"overrides" may be the wrong word there. The fact is, not an assumption, that it's a sexual preference in an of itself. One can be attracted to adult women, "straight". ALSO, one can be attracted to children... gender irrelevant.

I'll throw the bone that, fine, it puts you somewhere in the "Q" area. The problem with saying "more gay people are pedophiles" isn't really correct and just fans flames of hate. It's more precise to say "pedophiles fall into a non-straight category".

tl;dr being gay doesn't make you more likely to be a pedophile, being a pedophile puts one somewhere one of the non-straight spectrum.

I'm comfortable with that assertation.

 

[King Arts]

I guess we can just leave it there then, as we're no longer speaking the same language. Gay is, literally in the English language, being sexually attracted to the same sex.

The act is what is largely irrelevant. Surely preforming a same sex sex act would put one somewhere on the spectrum, but reality is more nuanced than a simple "on/off" switch.

Letting it be defined like you want is just letting liberals win and manipulate language. They will then make arguments like
“The Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality or homosexuals because people did not have that concept at the time.”

 

[evilchumlee]

Letting it be defined like you want is just letting liberals win

I have no problem with that. Better than the alternative.

Certainly better than the whole tirade about essentially banning any sort of same sex show of affection because, I don't know, pedophiles or something.

 

[Ixian]

I have no problem with that. Better than the alternative.

Certainly better than the whole tirade about essentially banning any sort of same sex show of affection because, I don't know, pedophiles or something.

Better being wrong?

Also who is advocating for banning shows of affection between same sex couples? Earlier I stated we should bring back and enforce public decency laws in some format, but that doesn't mean arresting someone for holding hands or a kiss.

It would mean arresting someone for dancing mostly naked in a dog collar on the street.

 

[evilchumlee]

Also who is advocating for banning shows of affection between same sex couples? Earlier I stated we should bring back and enforce public decency laws in some format, but that doesn't mean arresting someone for holding hands or a kiss.

It would mean arresting someone for dancing mostly naked in a dog collar on the street.

I wasn't referring to what you said. I *AGREED* with what you said. 100% believe in that.

I was referring to Jormungandr's rant.

 

[Cherico]

Reddit is permanently suspending any account that shares/posts the images of the manifesto.

you know if they just said this guy was nuts and wasn't representative of the rainbow crew this would all be over by now. Its the secrecy and overt cover up that makes this look so bad.

 

[Rocinante]

you know if they just said this guy was nuts and wasn't representative of the rainbow crew this would all be over by now. Its the secrecy and overt cover up that makes this look so bad.

Right. The manifesto isn't anything we didn't already suspect. It's only a big deal because they tried so hard to hide it.

 

[Typhonis]

Secrets have a way of being revealed and when we least want them too.

 

[Morphic Tide]

There actually is a term for this type of outlier sexual attraction: Paraphilia. Pretty broad catchall for "not really supposed to be associated with sex", with studies into the matter showing that pedophiles are very much their own weird outlier thing largely independent of and in many cases actively mutually exclusive with the "normal" sexual selection criteria. Though this is specifically in the context of "sexual attraction to prepubescents", as psychologists make a point of ignoring the legal age of majority in this because maturation is a fuzzy clusterfuck.

Edit: It also applies to the "autogynephilic" accusation levied towards "secondary transsexuals", and close to any other "fetish" especially when actually able to be practiced.

 

[shangrila]

Alot of pedophiles are gay, sure. Alot of pedophiles are straight, as well. There is no actual evidence that suggests gay people are any more likely to be pedophiles than anyone else. It's just... facts. I get it, we don't like gay people here, but we shouldn't just ignore reality.

It's funny that having sex with young boys predates anything resembling the modern laundered conception of "gay" by millennia. Male homosexuality wasn't separated from boy sex until what, the 80s? 90s? Pederasty was the basic model for male homosexuality in the West, the Sinosphere, the Islamic world, and probably everywhere else throughout history, and almost all the survivors from the gay rights era today were pederasts themselves or at least eromenos.

Treating "Gay" as the overarching group, and pretending alternatives to be deviants from that certainly is swallowing the academic and media narrative whole. By all evidence "gayness" is just a recent offshoot from the longstanding pederast movement, a sort of self-sustaining social delusion preceding the much larger scale social delusions today.

 

[DarthOne]

 

[Abhorsen]

Pedophilia is a mental illness that causes someone to be attracted to prepubescent bodies, it doesn't overwrite Sex/Gender preferences.

There's a lot of studies that actually show it does overwrite sex/gender preferences, actually. Because a female and male kid look pretty similar. In fact, I think something like 90% of male abusers of boys were entirely straight in their adult life.

The data I found (and I did this a while ago), was there was basically two groups of pedos, fixated pedos and lapsed pedos. Think of lapsed Pedos as the creepy high school teacher. Still wrong, but not as bad as the ones who target the young kids, who are the fixated ones.

The Lapsed ones cared more about the sex of the victim, (and gays did have an outsized problem with this IIRC, but not a stupidly huge out of proportion problem). Given it was an old data set (I try to use old data sets for stuff like this to avoid woke bias as much as possible), my guess is that this has been somewhat resolved by gay culture normalizing.

For the fixated Pedos, it was 90/10 straight to gay for boys (again, IIRC, I'll re-look up the study). My guess is that it would normalize to the actual gay straight ratio if they had access to a truly representative sample. Since people don't just volunteer that they are Pedos, you gotta interview convicted ones. But which pedos are the hardest to catch? The ones that keep it in the family, especially a father doing it to a girl. And those are very likely to be straight data points.



In fact, I'd point out that rape in general seems to not care about sexuality. Prison rape is a known thing, and it's not just gay people who do it. Some just want to cause pain and humiliation.

you know if they just said this guy was nuts and wasn't representative of the rainbow crew this would all be over by now. Its the secrecy and overt cover up that makes this look so bad.

See, I don't think they could. Conservatives have it down: they condemn both the ideology and the killer, and can do it without thinking, as conservatives don't actually share any of the core beliefs with the crazed killers.

Leftists don't have such an easy time. The anti-white hate and the gender ideology is not something they feel they can condemn, as many actually believe it.

It's funny that having sex with young boys predates anything resembling the modern laundered conception of "gay" by millennia. Male homosexuality wasn't separated from boy sex until what, the 80s? 90s? Pederasty was the basic model for male homosexuality in the West, the Sinosphere, the Islamic world, and probably everywhere else throughout history, and almost all the survivors from the gay rights era today were pederasts themselves or at least eromenos.

Treating "Gay" as the overarching group, and pretending alternatives to be deviants from that certainly is swallowing the academic and media narrative whole. By all evidence "gayness" is just a recent offshoot from the longstanding pederast movement, a sort of self-sustaining social delusion preceding the much larger scale social delusions today.

Eh, not really. The long history of pederastry was mixed up with gays, but it was frequently done by men who were considered straight in their adult life.

As for it being split off from boy sex, that was the case for a long while in the west at least. A gay culture for chiefly adults (teenagers definitely got into it to, tbc, but it wasn't centered around man/boy stuff), existed in the west for at least a hundred years, I'd say. The final split came in the 70s/80s, when NAMBLA formed and then was cast out of the gay movement.

What's happened is that as Gays began to be able to integrate into society and live openly, the law and morality has actually started applying to them. In the late 80s/early 90s, there was no expected monogamy. Prior to that, relationships were exceptionally rare. Now gays are marrying, not having casual sex, etc. It's a huge improvement on culture that some queers hate. They can't stand that 'gay culture' is dying, and just becoming a lisp with sass, not constant orgies in a tractor trailer near the mob run bar.

 

[mandragon]

That's why there is work to do in ensuring that equality is... equal.

Realistically in a non-Fox News, Breitbart fueled world of crazy pants information, the threat of what your suggesting is nowhere near as prevalent as you think. It's not a total non-issue, but it's also not the conspiracy-levels you seem to be saying.

Let's break it down a bit. Ok, fuck and molest.

LGBT people aren't actually any more likely to molest children. There's just no data to support that. There's alot of confirmation bias and some loud people reporting when it DOES happen. You are hyperfocused on it, so it SEEMS more prevalent

Grooming might be a bit more of an issue.

"Brainwashing" is a loaded nonsense term. What is brainwashing? Does it only count as "brainwashing" if they're persuading kids to do stuff you don't like? Is it brainwashing to indoctrinate them into a religion?

Here's the thing,in the vast majority of situations where a child is being taught a religion in America. It is either being taught by the parents themselves or woth the full knowledge and consent of the parents. Something which is fully within thier rights,constitutionally protected,and frankly at least 1/3 of the entire point of parenting. As opposed to when the LGBTQ+ ideology is being taught said lessons are being done. In direct opposition to the parents wishes,quite often without thier knowledge,and with absolutely no regard for thier consent. Not only that but it is usally being done by state actors in state funded and administered institutions.....Do you know what it's called when the state pushes an ideology onto children in direct defiance of thier parents wishes? It's called facism,and I don't mean that as hyperbole or fear mongering. Because the fact of the matter is you would be hard pressed to find anything more fascist then the state forcibly removing the rights of a parent to consent to what thier child is shown and how thier child is raised.....Your argument quite literally endorses a full on fascist public education education system.

 

[shangrila]

Eh, not really. The long history of pederastry was mixed up with gays, but it was frequently done by men who were considered straight in their adult life.

Calling ancient people "straight" is much of a laugh as calling them "gay". That one needed to, and had a social and familial responsibility to reproduce was uncontested for most of history, outside some religious circumstances.

Pederasty was always at the forefront of almost every (I want to say flat out every) historical example of male homosexuality right through the post-enlightenment West. Until very recently, even relationships between adults followed pederastic forms: i.e. between a much older adult and a youth even if one post majority, or simply where the younger man had aged out of pubescence while the relationship was ongoing. I'd even argue that the rare examples of equal homosexuality are driven precisely by the "sucking cock at the gas station bathroom" phenomenon where social and legal banning forces gays to enter adult relationships by cutting off access to boys, and we are seeing some return to form today.

It's modern "gayness" that is the deviant form, not pederasty. Our current transgender and rainbow in general epidemic shows clearly that human sexuality can be twisted quite easily by social pressures during puberty, so maybe it's a deviation that can be permanently self-sustaining replacing the traditional pederastic grooming. Or not, going by the disasters, can't say with all scientific research in this field clearly contaminated by ideology.

 

[Jormungandr]

I wasn't referring to what you said. I *AGREED* with what you said. 100% believe in that.

I was referring to Jormungandr's rant.

You call it a "rant", but I say I was asking "what options are there except for these two because I can't see a third path". The evidence that the more tolerant a society is, the quicker things slide to the utter horrorfest we're seeing now, despite a lot of gays, Bis, and lesbians being just normal people with a different orientation, is clear to see.

Again, twenty. fucking. years.

If there's a third option that can work outside of a perfect fantasy world, I'm all ears. But until something viable is brought up, the only options I can personally see are the two I already posted before.