The War in Afghanistan

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
> Complains about the US Military being woke
> Wants to rename bases named after confederate generals, wants US military to apologize more for muh oppression

same guy, apparently lol. What the do you think "woke" means?
The Woke wouldn't have nearly as much pull and power as they do, if the Right didn't keep propping up Southern/Confederate Pride because of the reliance on the 'Southern Strategy'.

It's a massive blind spot for people from the area, and it's carried over into larger national politics.

Zach wanted me to pull up a 'questionable issue' to prove my point, and I did.
Should have renamed Bagram airfield to MLK or Harvey Milk airfield or something, lol. I heard Bagram had some fucked up shit happen in it, wouldn't want to be drawing parallels to the historical oppression of underrepresented minorities of variant sandpeople.
No, those names, or those of freed slaves or Southern Unionists who fought against the CSA, would be better used to rename Hood and others.
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Zach wanted me to pull up a 'questionable issue' to prove my point, and I did.
Frankly, anyone who doesn't join the military because they can't stand bases named after Americans with moral difference to present-day thought is a positive--they obviously lack the mental flexibility necessary to learn tactical and strategic (or political) lessons from historical figures or fights which contain in them people or arguments which differ from a modern-day perspective.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
To the civies you want to recruit, and who ultimately control most of the nations politics/who is your boss in DC is (assuming we can ever trust the ballot box again), the base names do matter, whether you like it or not.

Civies control and fund the military, are where you get new recruits, and what they think about military matters will always impact national politics and high level military policies; stop pretending the military and it's culture are self-contained entities who can just shrug off larger cultural shifts, particularly regarding very controversial/questionable issues.

You wanted me to find a 'questionable issue' to make my point, and I have, and your reaction to it is exactly why parts of the US electorate see parts of the Right as nearly as bad as the Taliban.

'Southern Pride', as it relates to the Confederacy and those base names, is a massive black mark on the US and US military that you just want to ignore because of your heritage.
uh.
Civilians that have any say on US military policies are often high-level ones that served. The majority of rules and regulations the military has been made by and approved by the military chain. No civilians are in it unless specific ones, or representing a specific high ranking person. Not civies.

Okay. So there are roughly 500K Active Duty US Army personal. How many do you think actually care about the history of the base names? How many actually care about some of the questionable history of the military? I would say, if you wanna be generous. 5%.

As for recruiting civies. DO you know how many actually care when they join? Honestly none. Either they have always wanted to, a recruiter made it seem worthwhile. Wanted student loan forgiveness, or wanted free college, or anywhere in between.

If a base name offends you, don't join. If something about the militaries past offends you. Dont join. Simple as that.

People have a choice, they aren'tbeing forced to join. If they were, you would have a point
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Frankly, anyone who doesn't join the military because they can't stand bases named after Americans with moral difference to present-day thought is a positive--they obviously lack the mental flexibility necessary to learn tactical and strategic (or political) lessons from historical figures or fights which contain in them people or arguments which differ from a modern-day perspective.
uh.
Civilians that have any say on US military policies are often high-level ones that served. The majority of rules and regulations the military has been made by and approved by the military chain. No civilians are in it unless specific ones, or representing a specific high ranking person. Not civies.

Okay. So there are roughly 500K Active Duty US Army personal. How many do you think actually care about the history of the base names? How many actually care about some of the questionable history of the military? I would say, if you wanna be generous. 5%.

As for recruiting civies. DO you know how many actually care when they join? Honestly none. Either they have always wanted to, a recruiter made it seem worthwhile. Wanted student loan forgiveness, or wanted free college, or anywhere in between.

If a base name offends you, don't join. If something about the militaries past offends you. Dont join. Simple as that.

People have a choice, they aren'tbeing forced to join. If they were, you would have a point
A base renaming committee/review board is already being undertaken, and frankly the base renaming issue might have been part of what turned Milley against Trump. Being against renaming the bases certainly didn't help his polling, either; it was an 'easy win' issue Trump could have used to undercut the Left, but because of the GOP being hesitant to say anything negative about the Confederacy or anything the hurts 'Southern Pride', he didn't.

It's not usually Dems who wave the Stars and Bars at NASCAR events, is it?

Milley had reported talking to a black soldier at Bragg, IIRC, who said he felt uncomfortable and conflicted about being stationed at a military base of named after a man who enslaved his ancestors.

People keep forgetting that the descendants of those slaves have not forgotten who enslaved, or kept as slaves, thier great grandfathers/grandmothers, down to specific names kept in family records. IT IS NOT SOME DISTANT EVENT TO THEM, IT IS FAMILY HISTORY.

Also, civies control the overall high level polices and goal sets of the military via our Civilian government, which the military is subordinate too, and the military's PR directly effects how many are willing to join. The military's PR and budget is also a direct outgrowth of the larger US cultural situation, something they cannot control, because Congress and by extension civies have the purse strings.

If civies, even ones who aren't interested in joining, think the base names should change, and get our elected reps on board with it, there is nothing the leadership of the military or the military culture can do to stop them. The renaming commission or whatever is already a thing doing work, so it's not even a hypothetical I'm speaking of anymore.

Those base names are going to be changing, unless Trump gets back in in 2024, however they may change the names before he could get back in.

The only real question now is what names will they be changed to; I'd prefer escaped slaves and Southern Unionists, so that at least the South can take pride in the base names, for the right reasons this time.

Now to bring this back to the point I was trying to make when I used this as an example.

The US military establishment needs to start doing some serious soul searching about it's image/history, it's relationship with certain demographics, it's place in the US civil society, how it's internal cultural mythos has given it an inflated sence of it's own righteousness and moral authority compared to it's historical record, and what it means to protect the Constitution (not just the DC gov, chain of command, or military's image) over anything else.

The post-WW2 honeymoon wore off during Vietnam, and the post-9/11 period has now seen as a waste of 20 years and thousands of lives for...very little beside killing Bin Laden and enriching the military-industrial complex.

We have wasted a lot of soldiers lives for no real geopolitical or security gain, in multiple wars, because people keep defending the status quo in the military and Washington.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
You think the US Military doesnt know it had fucked up in the past?
Boy do I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya.
If it does, it certainly doesn't learn from it.

'Southern Pride', as it relates to the Confederacy and those base names, is a massive black mark on the US and US military that you just want to ignore because of your heritage.
Dude, I'm about as Northern as you can get without being Canadian, and I honestly don't think the bases should be renamed.
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
A base renaming committee/review board is already being undertaken, and frankly the base renaming issue might have been part of what turned Milley against Trump. Being against renaming the bases certainly didn't help his polling, either; it was an 'easy win' issue Trump could have used to undercut the Left, but because of the GOP being hesitant to say anything negative about the Confederacy or anything the hurts 'Southern Pride', he didn't.
One cannot undercut the left by pandering to them and implementing their policies. Every submission to their hateful narratives and their desire for a permanent year zero, is a categorical failure. It fills their hearts with joy, the hearts of patriots with sorrow, and the majority that sits on the sidelines sees yet more proof that the left is the strong horse and the right, a broken and obedient nag.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Dude, I'm about as Northern as you can get without being Canadian, and I honestly don't think the bases should be renamed.
The commission to do it, and figure out what names to switch to, is already a thing.

Trump could have done the renaming commission himself, undercut the Left with it, depowered a lot of those who insults about him being racist, and used it to help fuck with the Left's narrative about him an the Right during an already tense election season.

With everything else going on domestically, making those base names the hill parts of the Right chose to die on was...not wise, by parts of the Right, and now that resistance to it is just going to be moot.

This is part of why we are in this withdrawal A-stan clusterfuck.

There are major blind spots in the how the US military and US gov see themselves, as part of the internal mythos of the DC and military/civie bureaucracies/agencies/groups, versus how the appear to the people on the outside, some of who they wish to recruit for their services.

The Confederate Base issue is indicative of what you noted; the military does not learn from it's mistakes as much as it'd like to think it does.

It is in fact perpetuating a bunch of lies pushed by the Daughter's of the Confederacy, who were like the female Klan, that have persisted in the South because of how they infiltrated and controlled the education and governmental syetem to a massive degree. This shit is documented, it just conflicts with the narrative the Right likes on some issues relating the the ACW, Confederacy, and the aftermath till the Civil Rights era.



When parts of the Right wing in the US gov and military are willing to continue to humor the lies pushed by groups like the Daughters of the Confederacy, is it any wonder the Dems absurd overreaches in the media are believed and have been so potently used against the Right?

Which in turn is part of why when the Right often has good ideas, or seeing more of reality that the Left, the Left can still point directly to the Stars and Bars, Southern Strategy, and those base names and the media will go with it, while certain demographics also have it as lived history of their families. This, despite the fact it was the Dems themselves who were slavers and responsible for the ACW.

It's is an onion with many layers of how the current clusterfuck in A-stan (and the US) evolved, and is still evolving.

But the lack of trust in the US gov and military A-stan is creating is possible because too many DC and the military have drunk the kool-aid of their own righteousness, are too attached to the status quo, and want to protect their own careers more than the Constitution.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
And? That doesn't make it right.
Trump could have initiated the group himself, undercut the Dems on the issue, and gotten the credit for it.

Instead, he lost that chance in order to appease a certain narrative about the ACW/Southern Pride, and now it's going to happen anyway under a senile dementia patient or cackling buffoon.

Those base names only happened to appease people like the Daughters of the Confederacy in the first place, and should never have borne the names of the traitors to begin with.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder


Oh FFS, if we are going to do retaliation attacks against ISIS-K, fucking make sure the people killed are ACTUALLY ISIS-K!
 

Arlos

Sad Monarchist
I worry that ISIS may get the better off the Talibans, and that Pakistan may be next on the platter, they already have trouble keeping their fundamentalists in check…
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Do you know how hard that is with rockets?
I know we have those wonderful katana-hellfires that are supposed to reduce the need to using rockets for attacks like this. We built those missile to deal with taking out one individual without killing everyone in a vehicle.

And it seems like they may have been our own interpretors trying to get out, so your excuse doesn't even potentially fly as this may be a blue on blue/green:
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
That Marine LTC who got relieved of command for demanding accountability over Kabul won't quit, in part by quitting.



What I find most interesting - well, not that he's resigning, but that he blew up the way he did because he knew one of his mentors (who apparently has since unfortunately gone woke and who motivated him to resign & make this additional video in the first place by insulting him) tried to make his own concerns heard within the system, only to be stonewalled and shuffled out without accomplishing anything. Little wonder then that Scheller went this way.

The second interesting bit came at the end there.

Stuart Scheller said:
Follow me, and we will bring the whole fucking system down. I am honorable and you can ask any Marine who served with me for 17 years - I dare you to ask them all and find out what I'm made of. We’re just getting started.

Is he gonna dig up some more dirt? Run for office with, as he says, the hopeful backing of fellow veterans & blue-collar workers? Whatever it is, here's hoping he doesn't get suicided in the next couple weeks. And that if he does run for office he does so somewhere as far away from the DMV area as possible, can't imagine he'd have a chance of winning in glowie central.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I know we have those wonderful katana-hellfires that are supposed to reduce the need to using rockets for attacks like this. We built those missile to deal with taking out one individual without killing everyone in a vehicle.

And it seems like they may have been our own interpretors trying to get out, so your excuse doesn't even potentially fly as this may be a blue on blue/green:

Because we probably didn't have any on hand at the time.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Because we probably didn't have any on hand at the time.
Given there are reports the first retalitory strike used one:


I find that the ideas they weren't available to be kinda sus, and more kneejerk defense of military decisions on your part.

You also don't seem to have anything to say about it possibly being our own allies that were hit.
 

Sobek

Disgusting Scalie
I wouldn't put it past this administration to have simply lost their connection with reality and this is the result of them defaulting on their backup programming of drone striking the issue away, without actually doing the important bit of checking what they are drone striking first. Because we know how much they seem to love ignoring the people on the ground whose opinions disagree with their desires, they probably just ignored the spooks and grunts saying "we think they are around here but we need some more intel and..." and just heard "They are around here" and deployed the AGM killstreak.
 

StormEagle

Well-known member
Do you know how hard that is with rockets?

Maybe if we’re not sure that we’re going to hit the enemy with the rockets, instead of uninvolved civilians, we shouldn’t fire the rockets?

Civilian casualties are a thing and are sometimes unavoidable, I get that. But I’d think that the US military could at least make sure they’re getting some actual terrorists in the strike instead of just uninvolved civilians.

A 9 civilians to 0 terrorists kill tally isn’t exactly what I’d call acceptable losses.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top