The War in Afghanistan

Zachowon said:
Does that mean we can make it perfect?
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Given you had 20 years, $80 Billion a year and almost 3,000 American sons, fathers and husbands, yes, it fucking does mean you should've got that right. Hell, the Russians pulled out in '89 and the DRA outlasted the USSR until it collapsed in 1992; there are no excuses for this failure and you don't get to hide behind "it's not our fault that the soldiers we spent all this money and time training fell apart in a single campaign season!".

Zachowon said:
Blame the idiots in the ANA wanting money and relying on the US
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Who installed those idiots? Remind me where the ANA was on September 11, 2001.
 
History Learner said:
Given you had 20 years, $80 Billion a year and almost 3,000 American sons, fathers and husbands, yes, it fucking does mean you should've got that right. Hell, the Russians pulled out in '89 and the DRA outlasted the USSR until it collapsed in 1992; there are no excuses for this failure and you don't get to hide behind "it's not our fault that the soldiers we spent all this money and time training fell apart in a single campaign season!".



Who installed those idiots? Remind me where the ANA was on September 11, 2001.
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Huh.
What could they have done differently? Why is it our fault the ANA were corrupt, untrustworthy, infiltrated by the Taliban, money seeking idiot of high command?
It is almost like they never wanted us to leave and were ill prepared for us to.
WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE?
Once you answer that, you will get your answer
 
Zachowon said:
Huh.
What could they have done differently? Why is it our fault the ANA were corrupt, untrustworthy, infiltrated by the Taliban, money seeking idiot of high command?
It is almost like they never wanted us to leave and were ill prepared for us to.
WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE?
Once you answer that, you will get your answer
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Because you created it from the ground up, trained it and until this very year was its main source of funding; the costs for the ANSDF exceeded what GIRoA collected in a year, every year. Given the numerous structural issues present and 20 fucking years to correct them all, yeah, you fucked up and no amount of blame shifting can erase that. If you're having to ask me, a dude on the internet, when you are supposedly someone working in U.S. intelligence what you could have done differently then that just proves my point; the entire system you work in has no fucking clue what its doing and quite frankly the consequences of its dramatic failure playing out right now on TV screens all across America should result in it being entirely shut down. You wasted $1 Trillion and 3,000 American lives for nothing. Own this defeat.
 
History Learner said:
Because you created it from the ground up, trained it and until this very year was its main source of funding; the costs for the ANSDF exceeded what GIRoA collected in a year, every year. Given the numerous structural issues present and 20 fucking years to correct them all, yeah, you fucked up and no amount of blame shifting can erase that. If you're having to ask me, a dude on the internet, when you are supposedly someone working in U.S. intelligence what you could have done differently then that just proves my point; the entire system you work in has no fucking clue what its doing and quite frankly the consequences of its dramatic failure playing out right now on TV screens all across America should result in it being entirely shut down. You wasted $1 Trillion and 3,000 American lives for nothing. Own this defeat.
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Okay.
HOW DO YOU THINK WE SHOUKD HAVE FIXED IT?
All I head is "You had 20 years!"
Okay, what more could we have done? The command of the ANA were complete idiots. Replace them with someone else? Less experience? Probably worse off?
Put an American? Whi would listen to him? How would he know ow how the people of A-stan work? The tribe dynamic would have to be pushed out if the people.

What, all would you say we could have done?
 
The evacuation at Kabul seems to be going well.

www.thedrive.com

Mayhem At Kabul Airport Causing American Troops To Fire Warning Shots To Push Back Crowds (Updated)

Large groups of Afghan civilians have flooded onto the flightline at Hamid Karzai International Airport as they flee the Taliban's final advance.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com

The US Ambassador already bailed and the United States ceased all commercial flights out of the city, allowing only military aircraft in and out the airport and thus, even Afghans with valid visas or booked flights are now stuck at the airport. The United States is planning on ramping up air transport ability to five thousand a day, though that may take some time. They seem to be focusing on embassy personnel obviously, as well as Afghans eligible for SIV or Special Immigration Visas and Third Country Nationals.

Also apparently the US and Taliban have still been in talks regarding the evacuation so while the Taliban are in Kabul, they haven't struck at the Embassy or Airport yet.

US Marines, the 82nd Airborne, a composite Minnesota National Guard unit as well as apparently British and Canadian troops among others are currently assisting with the evacuation.
 
Arlos said:
I don’t think anyone expected it to be perfect, but it would have been nice if it had existed at least…😇
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Why should we want an army for the Afghanistan warlords with bacha bazi? I mean, I see why the GAE did and has only now decided it isn't worth it, but why should the American nation have ever wanted one?

@Zachowon All that aside, one thing I think could have been done if our elites were competent is teaching more of the actual US military Dari or Pashto. From what I've read the numbers taught in an official capacity were incredibly low, and the lack of actual US servicemembers who could speak the language contributed to the puppet Afganistan government being basically entirely corruption. IIRC the richest man in Afganistan RN started off as a translator - he'd translate to a local vendor that the United States wanted to purchase X to someone selling it, they'd say in Dari that it would cost a few hundred dollars, he'd translate that it would cost 20 grand, and pocket the difference.

That said, this wouldn't have fixed the problem, because the fundamental problem was that the goal was impossible. What the military should have done is declare mission accomplished in 2009 when Al Qaeda ceased to have a real presence in Afghanistan, or in 2011 when they killed Bil Laden, and left then.

Edit: Great thread from 2019 on the corruption in Afghanistan, as well as the incompetence and ideological insanity that drove US policy at the highest levels, and doubtless continues to do so on many other issues, including foreign ones.
 
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GoldRanger said:
Good luck with your new isolationist policy, America. You don't want to be involved in the Middle East? You're an empire, not just any regular country. You don't get a choice. You think the power vacuum you're leaving behind will simply remain unfilled? You think the chaos you caused has nothing to do with you and won't touch you? In a decade or two don't act surprised when the Middle East you left will come directly to you instead, just like it did once already 2 decades ago.
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Fight your own wars.
 
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