United States The United States and Immigration Policy

[Certified_Heterosexual]

More good news on the immigration law enforcement front:

At this point, coronavirus has done more for immigration enforcement than two generations of GOP politicians.

 

[Bacle]

More good news on the immigration law enforcement front:

At this point, coronavirus has done more for immigration enforcement than two generations of GOP politicians.

*chef's kiss* Fucking beautiful.

 

[Yinko]

Well, it makes sense. I mean, I can enroll in an American online school from anywhere in the world, the same is true for them. Take your high-prestige credential and use it where it will actually be valuable, because chances are it's going to be worthless here.

 

[Bacle]

This is why DACA is a fucking disaster, and why it should be revisited when Roberts is no long Chief Justice.

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

The facts are in: Trump Cuts Legal Immigrants By Half And He’s Not Done Yet

Trump Cuts Legal Immigrants By Half And He’s Not Done Yet

Donald Trump has reduced legal immigration by an estimated 49%, which will have a significant negative impact on U.S. economic growth.

www.forbes.com

This article is written by a guy named Stuart Anderson, who is the executive director of something called the National Foundation for American Policy ("NoFAP"), a completely worthless think tank that cranks out a limitless supply of stale talking points about how such-and-such number of immigrants translates to so-and-so points of GDP growth. He used to write the same bullshit for the CATO Institute.

Reducing legal immigration most harms refugees, employers and Americans who want to live with their spouses, parents or children, but it also affects the country’s future labor force and economic growth. “Average annual labor force growth, a key component of the nation’s economic growth, will be approximately 59% lower as a result of the administration’s immigration policies, if the policies continue,” according to an analysis from the National Foundation for American Policy. “Economic growth is crucial to improving the standard of living, which means lower levels of legal immigration carry significant consequences for Americans.”

Somebody tell this libertarian shill that America's immigrant population is at record highs while our standard of living continues to decline.

The next part of the article is a table which shows how many hundreds of thousands of undesirable economic migrants the Trump administration is pacing to turn away annually, as compared to years past: 582,000. Yes, that's the entire population of Milwaukee every year.

Less immigration is likely to hold back America’s economic recovery from Covid-19. Economists at Oxford University and Citi concluded that without immigrants contributing to the quantity and quality of the labor supply, the majority of the economic growth gains America saw between 2011 and 2016 following the last recession would not have happened.

Did you catch that? "Oxford University and Citi"? As in Citigroup, a multinational investment bank with $2 trillion in total assets? Citigroup economists shouldn't be making immigration policy, they should be making gravel in a federal prison.

EDIT: Also, Trump just passed a new executive order that illegals won't be counted on the census for Electoral College votes.

Memorandum on Excluding Illegal Aliens From the Apportionment Base Following the 2020 Census | The White House

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE SUBJECT: Excluding Illegal Aliens From the Apportionment Base Following the 2020 Census By the authority ves

www.whitehouse.gov

For the purpose of the reapportionment of Representatives following the 2020 census, it is the policy of the United States to exclude from the apportionment base aliens who are not in a lawful immigration status under the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended (8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq.), to the maximum extent feasible and consistent with the discretion delegated to the executive branch.

Not sure how many illegals there are here, exactly, but I've read its as many as 20 million. This is probably going to fuck over states like CA and others with sanctuary zones pretty good when reapportionment comes. If they can really screen out the illegals, red states are going to pick up more reps and EC votes than otherwise.

 

[Abhorsen]

EDIT: Also, Trump just passed a new executive order that illegals won't be counted on the census for Electoral College votes.

Memorandum on Excluding Illegal Aliens From the Apportionment Base Following the 2020 Census | The White House

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE SUBJECT: Excluding Illegal Aliens From the Apportionment Base Following the 2020 Census By the authority ves

www.whitehouse.gov

Blatantly unconstitutional. The census is required to count the number of people in every state, not citizens (maybe a holdover from slavery? Idk).

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

Blatantly unconstitutional. The census is required to count the number of people in every state, not citizens (maybe a holdover from slavery? Idk).

Frankly, who gives a shit?

The Constitution has been dead for decades man, get with the times. Why should unrepentant criminals be given a voice in the system they scorn and reject? How is that fair? How is that right?

Constitutions are gentlemens' agreements. As such, they only work between gentlemen. Or put another way, they are artifacts of a high-trust society. Have you ever printed out the Constitution as plain text? It's about twenty pages long—which is really all you need in order to lay down some agreed-upon ground rules between a high-trust group of gentlemen.

But as always, dealing with low-trust people under high-trust rules is a recipe for disaster. Leftism is inherently low-trust because it is a fanatical utopian cult—cult members consider it perfectly acceptable to lie and deceive in the name of the higher calling of bringing about the utopia that the cult believes in. Consider the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage. The decision turns on the idea that Congress actually legalized gay marriage in 1868 when it passed the 14th Amendment, and it's just that nobody noticed it for the next 150 years or so. Do you really think Ruth Bader Ginsburg actually believes that? Of course not—the cult decided that it was time for gay marriage, and as a high-powered cultist, she found a way to make it happen. It doesn't matter that it involved what was essentially telling a bald-faced lie. What matters to the cult is not such trifling lies, but the higher truth of the cult's ideals.

This is why treating the Constitution overly reverently is a very bad idea. We lose sight of the fact that a constitution exists to protect a civilization, not the other way around. Low-trust sophists have figured out the cracks in what was only ever intended to be a high-trust gentlemen's agreement in the first place, and have made it say whatever they want it to say (this is why the Supreme Court is so important to them: the unlimited power to "interpret" the Constitution is functionally identical to the unlimited power to rewrite it). Someone once said that Americans are foolish enough that they're willing to see a civilization destroyed for the sake of a constitution, and it appears for now that they are. Of course, that gets things exactly backwards—if your only concern is whether something is "Constitutional," you're the civic equivalent of a mother letting her child bleed out after a car wreck because she doesn't want to cut through her nice seat belts in order to free him. At best, a constitution is just a tool used in furtherance of the purpose of preserving your civilization, but we've forgotten that as a people.

Whatever it once was, the Constitution has become a stone around our necks, dragging us to the bottom to drown. Seeing this happen with my own eyes has convinced me that written constitutions are too likely to become an object of excessive veneration among the people, and thus are more trouble than they're worth.

 

[Abhorsen]

Frankly, who gives a shit?

The Constitution has been dead for decades man, get with the times. Why should unrepentant criminals be given a voice in the system they scorn and reject? How is that fair? How is that right?

So thanks for coming right out and admitting that you hate America, because the Constitution is basically America's ideals, put into legalese. Thinking it's been dead for decades is also the stupidest thing I've heard. Sure, they aren't applying it perfectly, (notably the fourth and fifth, the 2nd is getting better), but tossing it entirely? Christ, you are an idiot. It's the only thing stopping the Leftists from going full California Uber Alles.

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

So thanks for coming right out and admitting that you hate America, because the Constitution is basically America's ideals, put into legalese. Thinking it's been dead for decades is also the stupidest thing I've heard. Sure, they aren't applying it perfectly, (notably the fourth and fifth), but tossing it entirely? Christ, you are an idiot. It's the only thing stopping the Leftists from going full California Uber Alles.

America is not the Constitution; what retarded idolatry is this? America is a living, breathing culture, made of people. It is not a fucking instruction manual. You worship the owner's manual while the car is being jacked behind you. What's stopping the Leftists from opening the reeducation camps is not your magic piece of paper, it's the fact that the Left is a deranged coalition of idiots who hate each other almost as much as they hate us. That and widespread gun ownership makes the imposition of a public-sector police state prohibitively expensive.

InB4 "but muh 2nd amendment makes gun ownership possible!" You fucking troglodyte, the legal right to own weapons means nothing unless coupled with a pre-existing culture that valorizes independence, decentralization, and self-defense.

 

[Bacle]

This was a brilliant move, and just changed the map for political purposes.

Blatantly unconstitutional. The census is required to count the number of people in every state, not citizens (maybe a holdover from slavery? Idk).

It still does that, but this eliminates thier ability to use illegals for representational purposes, while retaining the demographic data required for the census to count.

It's a wonderful little workaround that allows Trump to remove one of the Dems avenues of pursuing voting fraud and deincentivizing cities/areas adopting sanctuary policies to sway reapportionment.

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

They're still counting illegals for statistical purposes, just not putting those numbers toward more EC votes.

@Abhorsen I repeat my question: why should unrepentant criminals, who don't even give enough of a shit to respect the laws of the country they're moving to, be given a political voice?

 

[Abhorsen]

America is not the Constitution; what retarded idolatry is this? America is a living, breathing culture, made of people. It is not a fucking instruction manual. You worship the owner's manual while the car is being jacked behind you. What's stopping the Leftists from opening the reeducation camps is not your magic piece of paper, it's the fact that the Left is a deranged coalition of idiots who hate each other almost as much as they hate us. That and widespread gun ownership makes the imposition fo a public-sector police state prohibitively expensive.

Again, the constitution is the legalese laying out America's core principles. If those are under threat, it is the constitution we use as both guidance and safety. Abandoning the constitution when under threat is the stupidest piece of horseshit I've ever heard, along the lines of "Get out of the tank, they're shooting us with pistols!"

@Abhorsen I repeat my question: why should unrepentant criminals, who don't even give enough of a shit to respect the laws of the country they're moving to, be given a political voice?

Because respecting the constitution means doing this, and the constitution matters. Just for example, a major religious and school choice victory just happened (which apparently you missed, thinking it's a useless document). But no, we must burn America, or else they might attack it.

It still does that, but this eliminates thier ability to use illegals for representational purposes, while retaining the demographic data required for the census to count.

It's a wonderful little workaround that allows Trump to remove one of the Dems avenues of pursuing voting fraud and deincentivizing cities/areas adopting sanctuary policies to sway reapportionment.

Can't do that either. From the 14th amendment:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed.

Illegal immigrants aren't Indians not taxed, so must be included.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

America is not the Constitution; what retarded idolatry is this? America is a living, breathing culture, made of people. It is not a fucking instruction manual. You worship the owner's manual while the car is being jacked behind you. What's stopping the Leftists from opening the reeducation camps is not your magic piece of paper, it's the fact that the Left is a deranged coalition of idiots who hate each other almost as much as they hate us. That and widespread gun ownership makes the imposition fo a public-sector police state prohibitively expensive.

InB4 "but muh 2nd amendment makes gun ownership possible!" You fucking troglodyte, the legal right to own weapons means nothing unless coupled with a pre-existing culture that valorizes independence, decentralization, and self-defense.

dude please stop this keyboard warrior crap. Chances are your not going to be a warlord and all your going to do is drive yourself crazy and make an environment that's ACTUALLY toxic. For some of us the constitution is the the heart of America. It's the rule of law. Without it we might as well revert to Barbaric tribal warlords and slice each others head off because why not who's going to stop us amirite? if that's really the game you want to play, don't cry when you lose. Are you really willing to play that game?

 

[Bacle]

Again, the constitution is the legalese laying out America's core principles. If those are under threat, it is the constitution we use as both guidance and safety. Abandoning the constitution when under threat is the stupidest piece of horseshit I've ever heard, along the lines of "Get out of the tank, they're shooting us with pistols!"


Because respecting the constitution means doing this, and the constitution matters. Just for example, a major religious and school choice victory just happened (which apparently you missed, thinking it's a useless document). But no, we must burn America, or else they might attack it.


Can't do that either. From the 14th amendment:

Illegal immigrants aren't Indians not taxed, so must be included.

They may not be 'Indians', but they are untaxed.

They may pay sales taxes on day to day stuff and such, but I doubt they are filing Federal income taxes of they want to remain below ICE's radar.

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

The government is not the nation. The Constitution is not the culture.

The Constitution has laid out some really nice principles—most of which I agree with—but that's all they are: words on paper, unless there is a culture that actually enforces those principles. The fact that you're willing to throw the nation you claim to love so much to the wolves over some retarded legalese puts the lie to every single claim you've ever made about the power of the Constitution. Either the Constitution approves of Leftism, or it has been absolutely useless in preventing it.

Keep chanting to your magic paper, libertarians. Maybe the Leftists will shoot you last.

 

[LordsFire]

Illegal immigrants aren't Indians not taxed, so must be included.

You forgot to mention that that same paragraph says:

"But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."

Illegally migrating would certainly qualify as a crime.

The government is not the nation. The Constitution is not the culture.

The Constitution has laid out some really nice principles—most of which I agree with—but that's all they are: words on paper, unless there is a culture that actually enforces those principles. The fact that you're willing to throw the nation you claim to love so much to the wolves over some retarded legalese puts the lie to every single claim you've ever made about the power of the Constitution. Either the Constitution approves of Leftism, or it has been absolutely useless in preventing it.

Keep chanting to your magic paper, libertarians. Maybe the Leftists will shoot you last.

You seem to be unaware of the ways that the Constitution has restrained leftist nonsense. It's the only reason we still have a right to own guns.

It is far, far, far from being properly adhered to. But it still is some detriment to authoritarian expansion of government.

When you have a proposal for something better or more effective to replace it with, I'll be willing to entertain proposals to do so.

 

[Abhorsen]

They may not be 'Indians', but they are untaxed.

They may pay sales taxes on day to day stuff and such, but I doubt they are filing Federal income taxes of they want to remain below ICE's radar.

First, a good deal of them are taxed in some manner, and this amendment predates income taxes, and so doesn't refer to those. Second, even if they weren't, they aren't Indians, and so do count, just like Indians who are taxed count.

The government is not the nation. The Constitution is not the culture.

The Constitution has laid out some really nice principles—most of which I agree with—but that's all they are: words on paper, unless there is a culture that actually enforces those principles. The fact that you're willing to throw the nation you claim to love so much to the wolves over some retarded legalese puts the lie to every single claim you've ever made about the power of the Constitution. Either the Constitution approves of Leftism, or it has been absolutely useless in preventing it.

Keep chanting to your magic paper, libertarians. Maybe the Leftists will shoot you last.

And yet more stupidity. The only thing certified by you is your general ignorance. This is what you are saying:

"I'm going to throw away a winning strategy because I can't figure out the many, many times the constitution stopped leftism."

Yes, every word is a link to a different supreme court case since 2000 against degeneracy or leftism. There you go, decades of good use of the constitution.

"But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."

That part only applies to not counting citizens who can't vote. Note it goes by proportion, not just discounting the number that can't vote. In addition, the committing a crime thing allows a state to keep it's population count high, including felons who can't vote in it's count for proportional representation.

You seem to be unaware of the ways that the Constitution has restrained leftist nonsense. It's the only reason we still have a right to own guns.

Basically this.

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

Yeah, the Constitution has been so great at restraining Leftism, that's why we have universal concealed carry reciprocity, there hasn't been an abortion performed in over ten years, freedom of association is enshrined in case law, Leftist-run media orgs have been trust-busted into oblivion, right-wingers aren't getting discriminated against by social media companies...

Oh wait. Oops, looks like the exact opposite of all that is true. How embarrassing for you.

 

[Abhorsen]

Yeah, the Constitution has been so great at restraining Leftism, that's why we have universal concealed carry reciprocity, there hasn't been an abortion performed in over ten years, freedom of association is enshrined in case law, Leftist-run media orgs have been trust-busted into oblivion, right-wingers aren't getting discriminated against by social media companies...

Oh wait. Oops, looks like the exact opposite of all that is true. How embarrassing for you.

All I can here are you whining the world isn't perfect, while ignoring all the great things the constitution has done. Christ, give up the blackpill why don't you.

 

[Bacle]

Yeah, the Constitution has been so great at restraining Leftism, that's why we have universal concealed carry reciprocity, there hasn't been an abortion performed in over ten years, freedom of association is enshrined in case law, Leftist-run media orgs have been trust-busted into oblivion, right-wingers aren't getting discriminated against by social media companies...

Oh wait. Oops, looks like the exact opposite of all that is true. How embarrassing for you.

...seriously?

The purpose of the Constitution is not to prevent non-conservative thought and people from gaining or having power. It's purpose is ensuring the liberty and freedom of all citizens of this nation, even if it may seem inconvenient at times.

The Constitution isn't perfect, but the problems with far-left media and people today is not it's fault. Even if we are forced to go to a 2nd Republic ala France, due to internal conflict making the current version unenforceable, preserving as much of the Constitution as possible in the transition is a must.

All I can here are you whining the world isn't perfect, while ignoring all the great things the constitution has done. Christ, give up the blackpill why don't you.

He seems to be the type who thinks non-conservative thought is the root of all problems.