Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
So, out of ten, how apoplectic with rage do you think the fandom will be after this series is over?
Lord of the Rings The Tolkien Thread
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
Is there an option for '12'?
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
bintananth
behind a desk
I'm partial to "NaN" or "Yes" myself.
Val the Moofia Boss
Well-known member
To be honest, I don't think many people who grew up reading Tolkien are going to watch the show, or any more LotR licensed products. Anyone who has been vaguely paying attention to pop culture knows that Tolkien will never be faithfully adapted, at least not by Hollywood. The new Amazon show is aimed at a completely different audience. Most people will have simply never read the books and just won't care. At best, maybe the adaptation will get a few people interested enough to check out the source material.
Those who still read would knew.But,what you said is sadly true - most are not doing that.
Vargas Fan
Head over heels in love :)
And another one about ethnic hobbits
www.nme.com
'The Lord Of The Rings' star Lenny Henry promises more diversity in TV series
The Amazon show is set to premiere on September 2, 2022
www.nme.com
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
Aside from them being meant to represent 'Little England' types, aren't the Hobbits of the Second Age still living in total obscurity around the Anduin, on the opposite side of the Misty Mountains from Eriador where the Shire is located? And the Shire itself wouldn't even be a thing until more than a thousand years into the Third Age, when the Kings of Arthedain granted it to Hobbits migrating away from the growing pressure of Sauron (by then established at Dol Guldur as the Necromancer). Until then, the Hobbits' neighbors up in the cold and wooded north of Middle-earth would have been the famously blond and fair-skinned Éothéod - ancestors of the Rohirrim. So they definitely shouldn't be black or Maori, and they shouldn't even be visible in this timeframe dominated by Elves, Númenóreans and Sauron at his prime.
A revolting display of disrespect for Tolkien's lore to be sure, but entirely to be expected in these times. This Amazon show is just going to be the latest 'crossroads statue' in the long chain of awful woke remakes, reimaginings, prequels and sequels nobody asked for this past half-decade or so. But it's certainly nice of Lenny Henry to reveal this a year before it comes out with such little ambiguity so there's one less avenue for people to retain false hope as to what exactly they're going to get if they actually watch this travesty.
A revolting display of disrespect for Tolkien's lore to be sure, but entirely to be expected in these times. This Amazon show is just going to be the latest 'crossroads statue' in the long chain of awful woke remakes, reimaginings, prequels and sequels nobody asked for this past half-decade or so. But it's certainly nice of Lenny Henry to reveal this a year before it comes out with such little ambiguity so there's one less avenue for people to retain false hope as to what exactly they're going to get if they actually watch this travesty.
Well, with any luck it'll turn out to be a really expensive flop for Amazon and social justice in general, get itself canceled after 1 or 2 seasons, and we can hold out hope for a better, more faithful adaptation showing off stuff like Númenór at its most glorious in 20 more years' time. As Frodo himself would put it...The Two Towers said:
The Two Towers said:
Peter Jackson's LotR was indeed flawed, but it cannot be said that they were not faithfully adapted. A proper adaptation would have required a series in its own right. This might have been the time for such a project, but we all know that as the entertainment industry stands, they would have butchered all of it. Legolas would be Black, Gandalf a stoner, and Frodo would have preferred getting Sam's pipeweed up his ass.
Something has occurred to me in this matter though. Amazon is obviously interested in cashing in on the GoT fanbase, now that HBO's series has finally ended. It's a coldly calculated attempt at a crash grab. The progressive narrative is either part of that--or just as likely a result of progressives within the industry pressing for such changes. In so doing however, I believe that this project is doomed to fail, simply based not even on the merits of the project, but its motivation.
George Martin has not been shy with the knowledge that he has written his work as a counterpoint or an 'answer' to Tolkien's LotR. Martin's is a cynical approach to a fantasy epic and thus far, it is an answer that remains unfinished. And yet this sort of cynical approach is being taken as the foundation of a new series, set in its declared opposite! Thus, even setting aside the issue of progressive values (if you cared to call it such), this project will feel wrong on the outset.
You cannot pass a cynical, materialistic outset as something that is wholesome and pious. They'll have all the clothes and styles of the LotR trilogy, to be sure--but it will be a hollow and distorted mockery. Complaining about the progressive concepts thrown in would be akin to complaining about the stale icing on a cake of shit. It certainly isn't pleasant or desirable, but it is not the true problem. I fully expect this series to fall flat on its face, but I can promise you that it will get 3-5 seasons.
And why, you might ask? Because Amazon has invested so much of its own wealth and reputation into the project, along with all those involved, that they cannot allow it to fail. They will push through, because anyone involved in the project will be responsible. Accepting its failure would be to accept a massive loss that would end careers. And they will look to positive press as proof that it should make money and therefore it will even as losses mount.
You knew,it still could be worst.After soviet fall many soviets wrote anti-Tolkien stories - they really loved their Mordor - and in one case/forget author,try find in memory/
Elves was arrogant manipulators,Denethor rightful King,Aragorn warlord who murdered Boromir and Denethor,And Mordor was progressive state lead by constitutional monarch.
So,we could get good Mordor and Harad with bad white Elves.
Speaking of the movie trilogy. I learned something interesting about Gandalf's staff:
I am a big fan of the series and I never noticed that!Speaking of the movie trilogy. I learned something interesting about Gandalf's staff:
Thumbnail reminded me of something unrelated to Rings of Power. So this thread gets a bump.
I gotta say the Mouth of Sauron was something that I was glad was just a deleted scene in the Peter Jackson movies. He was like a hint of what was to come in the Hobbit trilogy.
When I read the bit about the Mouth of Sauron in the novels I was picturing some sort of Black Knight/Death Knight sort of presence who was the evil servant of Sauron opposite of Aragorn as the literature seemed to imply. Maybe even one gifted with oratory, almost like 'The Voice' of the Bene Gesserit, or kind of how Saruman was able to speak and ensorcel people when the Rohirrim confronted him when the Ents trapped him in his Tower. Plus I liked the idea of him at the head of a column of Black Numenoreans Dark Riders. Actual Living Men equal to the Dunedain or any Men of the West in service of Sauron.
Not... whatever the fuck joke the mutated Mouth of Sauron actually turned out to be in that deleted scene.
Not a sin as great as the Scrubbing Bubbles Army of the Dead but... it is worth mentioning even if it was just a deleted scene. Maybe a properly presented 'Mouth of Sauron' whose so long lived and evil he doesn't even recall his own name or past beyond being a speaker for Sauron would've been a better final duel for Aragorn then the Olog-Hai Troll that we did got (though still not as epic as the Sauron duel we almost got).
Okay that is all.
Didn't Aragon slay the Mouth of Sauron on the spot for claiming they are torturing Frodo and Sam at the moment of speaking?
No,he let him go becouse of parlay,only Gandalf take Frodo mail and Sam sword.
DarthOne
☦️
He did in the films. Which is completely in contradiction to the novel.
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
I've always found it hilarious that Movie-Aragorn commits a war crime by murdering the Mouth of Sauron (even if he was being a prick, as should have been expected from the most evil Man in Sauron's employ) in the middle of parley. And before he even got to relay any actual terms from Sauron to them (which he did in the books) too. Very kingly and civilized, lmao.
Best use I've found any adaptation made of the Mouth of Sauron is the Fourth Age: Total War mod for the first Rome Total War, where he's the power-behind-the-throne of the evil usurper faction challenging the Reunited Kingdom's legitimate rulers for control over Aragorn's legacy. Fits well with the theme of diminishing but persistent evils rising in each progressively declining Age of Middle-earth, from Morgoth to Sauron and now to Sauron's Mouth.
Film was bullshit compared to both.But now,thanks to Amazon "great work" that movie would be remembered as classic.Pity.
Indeed.Good idea,but not needed.Tolkien himself wrote that Gondor would fall to conspiracy of Sauron -worshipping elites,so surviving Mouth of Sauron is not needed.
DarthOne
☦️
Agreed; I’ve always suspected that had Tolkien written all of ‘the New Shadow’ the Mouth of Sauron would have (or at least should have) shown up as the real antagonist.
No.Tolkien stopped working on "New Shadow" when he undarstandt,that Gondor woud be destroyed by gondorians on their own,without any influence from enemies.
So,he stopped writing,becouse it would be pitiful - and he do not wanted wrote about Great country ending in pitiful way.
So - no Mouth of Sauron,becouse his presence would at least made fall less pitiful.
P.S it seems,that West is falling in exactly that way - Sauron-worshipping elites and mobs of poor behaving as orcs.
Well,we at least have powerfull enemy - China.