History The Responsibility of Emperor Hirohito and Japanese Apologies/Reparations for Crimes Against Humanity

[gral]

Now as for the actual argument: that Hirohito was an ignorant puppet is nonsense. He knew what was going on, he gave his full acquiesence to the broader ideas if not some of the gorier details, and he himself realized that there was a good chance he was going to be killed at worst or forced to abdicate in favor of one of his younger brothers at best.

Not sure whether this is addressed to me or not, but my point wasn't that he was ignorant(although I doubt that people showed him the details of the fall of Nanjing, for example); it was that he was a pushover, just as he was raised to be. Hirohito was supposed to be a rubber-stamp for the Genro, and when they died in the late 20's and early 30's he became one for their sucessors. It's telling that he only found the strength to defy the ones around him when he saw extinction of his country and culture as a real possibility, and even then, you can say he simply backed a different government faction instead of assuming power.

 

[Yuzuriha]

I do recall reading that Hirohito did often try to push the Navy into making offensives against the Americans even when they were ill advised.

As for Japan and Hirohito, there was no way to hold Japan and remove Hirohito from his throne.

I recall a source saying that Japan was actually preparing from Hirohito to be removed and various replacement candidates were being considered.
And MacArthur vetoed that idea based on pre invasion assumptions.

 

[Doomsought]

The Japanese Emperor was and is very much a religious figure. He is basically the pope of Shinto. It would have been a bad idea to execute the Japanese Emperor for supporting the Japanese Empire for the same reason it would be a bad idea to execute the Pope for supporting Mussolini.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Just want to throw out the sheer ungodly number of times Japan has actually apologized.

List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I count 56 separate apologies on the list from emperors, prime ministers, officials, and even enemy of all that is decent and liberal #1 Shinzo Abe has one on the list. I copy pasta'd it to a word document and it took up nine and a half pages to cover them all.

 

[Abhorsen]

The Japanese Emperor was and is very much a religious figure. He is basically the pope of Shinto. It would have been a bad idea to execute the Japanese Emperor for supporting the Japanese Empire for the same reason it would be a bad idea to execute the Pope for supporting Mussolini.

More like if the Pope and Mussolini were the same person, though. At that point, I think you might be obligated to go ahead and prosecute the Pope.

 

[Floridaman]

Your question is silly I have already told you my answer. The grievance ends at Death of the Original actors.

then isn’t the Japan issue resolved, Hirohito died a little under 40 years ago?

 

[Sailor.X]

then isn’t the Japan issue resolved, Hirohito died a little under 40 years ago?

Nope because you still have people who were part of a certain unit that did horrible experiments. Living quiet lives in Japan. They are in their late 90s.

 

[Floridaman]

Nope because you still have people who were part of a certain unit that did horrible experiments. Living quiet lives in Japan. They are in their late 90s.

And what good would trying someone in their 90s do?

 

[Sailor.X]

And what good would trying someone in their 90s do?

Justice. It means if you do evil your gray head does not go to the grave in peace.

 

[Bacle]

Nope because you still have people who were part of a certain unit that did horrible experiments. Living quiet lives in Japan. They are in their late 90s.

Yeah, the bio-war stuff was...letting that go is still sketch as fuck.

I don't think Hirohito knew about it till after the fact, with the way the IJA worked.

As for the remaining members, we need to look at what happened in Germany with that radio operator from one of the camps. That kind of thing is not 'justice'.

If there are command staff left, or the 'doctors', then have at them, because they had the power to subvert or meaningfully hinder that units operations.

If we are talking janitors, and orderlies...those folks had no power to meaningfully resist their superiors orders, if they had wanted to.

I have not seen a list of surviving members of that unit, so I'm not sure how many high level members still draw breath.

 

[Floridaman]

Yeah, the bio-war stuff was...letting that go is still sketch as fuck.

I don't think Hirohito knew about it till after the fact, with the way the IJA worked.

As for the remaining members, we need to look at what happened in Germany with that radio operator from one of the camps. That kind of thing is not 'justice'.

If there are command staff left, or the 'doctors', then have at them, because they had the power to subvert or meaningfully hinder that units operations.

If we are talking janitors, and orderlies...those folks had no power to meaningfully resist their superiors orders, if they had wanted to.

I have not seen a list of surviving members of that unit, so I'm not sure how many high level members still draw breath.

That was my concern as well.

 

[Sailor.X]

Yeah, the bio-war stuff was...letting that go is still sketch as fuck.

I don't think Hirohito knew about it till after the fact, with the way the IJA worked.

As for the remaining members, we need to look at what happened in Germany with that radio operator from one of the camps. That kind of thing is not 'justice'.

If there are command staff left, or the 'doctors', then have at them, because they had the power to subvert or meaningfully hinder that units operations.

If we are talking janitors, and orderlies...those folks had no power to meaningfully resist their superiors orders, if they had wanted to.

I have not seen a list of surviving members of that unit, so I'm not sure how many high level members still draw breath.

I think a few of those doctors are left. They would have been in their 20s and 30s back then.

 

[gral]

I think a few of those doctors are left. They would have been in their 20s and 30s back then.

Very few are left - someone that served in Unit 731 or another hospital where people did their thing on helpless people would have been born in the early-to-mid-1920s, and the doctors would have almost certainly been born in the 1910s. This means they would now be in their late 90s or in their 100s. Even with Japan being the country in the world with the most centenarians most of them will have already died by now.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Speaking of Japanese war crimes, I have always wondered about the strikes against the Imperial Navy's record (Isoroku Yamamoto does not strike me as a butcher). Whilst I've no doubt they did some bad things as it was war, it seems they weren't quite as gung ho for "atrocities" like the Imperial Army. For example, I believe the Japanese planes at Pearl Harbour ignored, or outright tried to avoid, civilian casualties.

Was the Imperial Navy at all in a similar frame of mind to the Kriegsmarine? Populated by old school aristocrats getting rather alarmed at their country going off the rails into fanaticism?

 

[gral]

Was the Imperial Navy at all in a similar frame of mind to the Kriegsmarine? Populated by old school aristocrats getting rather alarmed at their country going off the rails into fanaticism?

No, not at all. In fact, the IJN(usually) pretty much didn't care whether you slaughtered your prisoners like the second wartime commander of I-8 or fished enemy combatants from the water like the crew of Inazuma did.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

No, not at all. In fact, the IJN(usually) pretty much didn't care whether you slaughtered your prisoners like the second wartime commander of I-8 or fished enemy combatants from the water like the crew of Inazuma did.

Ah, alright. The Japanese military were just vicious bastards in general then. Apologies for the ignorance, my knowledge is a bit foggy on what the Japanese Navy got up to. Was there any part of the Japanese war machine that weren't a gaggle of butchering thugs?

What on earth made them that way though? I mean it wasn't like the Japs were caught up in a perpetual hysteria about Jews like Germany was (and as Covid-19 has proven, hysteria can make reasonable people do very regrettable things).

 

[Lanmandragon]

Ah, alright. The Japanese military were just vicious bastards in general then. Apologies for the ignorance, my knowledge is a bit foggy on what the Japanese Navy got up to. Was there any part of the Japanese war machine that weren't a gaggle of butchering thugs?

What on earth made them that way though? I mean it wasn't like the Japs were caught up in a perpetual hysteria about Jews like Germany was (and as Covid-19 has proven, hysteria can make reasonable people do very regrettable things).

Personally I believe they realized they had to catch up to the west or be irrelvant. So they went all by any means necessary.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Personally I believe they realized they had to catch up to the west or be irrelvant. So they went all by any means necessary.

Wars of conquest I can understand, but how they went about treating prisoners and non-combatants is just appalling and self defeating. I can only imagine this being caused by their honour code, of utter disgust and disdain for those who surrender and submit instead of taking their lives out of shame.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Wars of conquest I can understand, but how they went about treating prisoners and non-combatants is just appalling and self defeating. I can only imagine this being caused by their honour code, of utter disgust and disdain for those who surrender and submit instead of taking their lives out of shame.

Perhaps a mix of the two honestly it's hard to know. As even officer's journal's aren't overly trustworthy. Since people absolutely lie to themselves to justify things. Can't say I feel bad for the nukes though.

 

[Abhorsen]

What on earth made them that way though? I mean it wasn't like the Japs were caught up in a perpetual hysteria about Jews like Germany was (and as Covid-19 has proven, hysteria can make reasonable people do very regrettable things).

Their warrior culture was the problem. Basically, because Bushido viewed suicide as preferable to surrender, any who surrendered were considered completely honorless, so they deserved any treatment they got.