The Potterverse vs. the MiB

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
H/t @Bacle for giving me this idea.

The MiB has somehow managed to learn of the Wizarding World's existence and can now counter their cloaking and mind wipe abilities.
The MiB has everything it had as of the last Will Smith movie as well as everything from the animated series.
EDIT: Comics permitted, too!

Fight!
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Well, I think this would be a...very asymetrical and fluid fight, where there are no real victors and just a lot of dead bodies suddenly appearing and disappearing as far as us muggles/normies are concerned.

At least until the fighting escalates to whole cities getting wiped out.

Then I think the MIB would break the charade first; people will accept aliens are real and here as refugees/workers/celebs before they'll accept wizards lording over us in secret. At least with MIB, they try to slowly leak tech to the rest of the world in...watered down forms; the Wizarding World only really has contempt for muggles, with few exceptions, and the Statue of Secrecy has no provisions for anything like that.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
The MiB had a neutralizer that could memory-wipe a whole city hidden in the Statue of Liberty's torch as of MiB 2, IMHO that is not the only one.
Animated MiB had actual space stations with pretty powerful weapons, too.
And Time Travel.
 
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mrttao

Well-known member
The MiB has somehow managed to learn of the Wizarding World's existence and can now counter their cloaking and mind wipe abilities.
This stipulation gives an overwhelming advantage to MiB.
Both sides rely very heavily on their secrecy and mindwipe powers.
You just took away that power from wizards, meaning only MiB has cloaking and mindwipes.

An MiB agent can Neurolize a Wizard, but a wizard cannot obliviate an MiB agent.
Both sides possess mass mind wipes btw.
MiB has show that the statue of liberty is secretly a giant neurolizer.
And in harry potter there a team of wizards cast a city wide memory charm to make all the muggles in the city forget seeing a dragon.

Honestly it would be a lot more interesting if MiB were not given said blanket immunity. Where both sides could memory wipe each other.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
This stipulation gives an overwhelming advantage to MiB.
Both sides rely very heavily on their secrecy and mindwipe powers.
You just took away that power from wizards, meaning only MiB has cloaking and mindwipes.

An MiB agent can Neurolize a Wizard, but a wizard cannot obliviate an MiB agent.
Both sides possess mass mind wipes btw.
MiB has show that the statue of liberty is secretly a giant neurolizer.
And in harry potter there a team of wizards cast a city wide memory charm to make all the muggles in the city forget seeing a dragon.

Honestly it would be a lot more interesting if MiB were not given said blanket immunity. Where both sides could memory wipe each other.
Depends on your interpretation of counter.
Nuralization in MiB could be countered by a deneuralizer, which is a large-ish chair iirc, so I assumed that something like that would do the trick, and/or to have the mind wiping effects of any magic cast on MiB agents removed when this whole battle starts.
Also, my idea was for MiB scanning tech to be able to detect Wizarding "holograms" and see through them.

DO you think the wizards would be enough of a threat for the MiB to go public, btw?
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Also, my idea was for MiB scanning tech to be able to detect Wizarding "holograms" and see through them.
Wizards don't use holograms / mass illusions.
Are you thinking about the platform 9 3/4?
Remember how they smashed into it when it was closed? it is either a portal that teleports people, or a spell that lets people phase through solid matter. No hologram.

Wizards primarily rely on muggle repelling charms, passive tech damage from magic, mindwipes, and marking land as unplotable.
DO you think the wizards would be enough of a threat for the MiB to go public, btw?
Hard to tell. Wizards certainly have the powers to be extremely dangerous, but the problem is who wields those powers. They are ridiculously ignorant of muggle capabilities, and are also mostly idiots.
 

Agent23

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Wizards don't use holograms / mass illusions.
Are you thinking about the platform 9 3/4?
Remember how they smashed into it when it was closed? it is either a portal that teleports people, or a spell that lets people phase through solid matter. No hologram.

Wizards primarily rely on muggle repelling charms, passive tech damage from magic, mindwipes, and marking land as unplotable.

Hard to tell. Wizards certainly have the powers to be extremely dangerous, but the problem is who wields those powers. They are ridiculously ignorant of muggle capabilities, and are also mostly idiots.
I thought that mostly they used some form of illusion, aka hologram, to hide stuff like Hogwarts, platform 9 3/4, and other stuff.The illusion also has a forcefield to block entry working in tandem with it.
I do not think that phasing tech or pocket dimensions were what did it, just illusions.

In any case, if the MiB had real-time or near-mealtime satellite surveillance, so if they can integrate anti-wizard cloaking tech with that and maybe "borrow" some missiles from the various world governments or outright use their own weapons there will be lots and lots of dead wizards.

Germ or nanotech warfare is another option, if the Wizards get too dangerous then I think that the MiB's biotech division could cook up something that can just kill every single wizard on the planet, since those abilities appear to be genetic in nature.

Bonus points if the virus gives Muggles nothing but a bad cold.

The MiB can just use their control over various institutions and advanced tech to disperse the bioweapon all over the planet fast.

This would be akin to a combination between the Broken Masquerade and Why SCPs.

And I wish I had the writing skills, patience, and lore knowledge to write it.

Also, bare in mind that, in the words of Arthur C. Clarke, quote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Maybe the Wizards were just humanoid aliens that crash-landed on Earth and interbred with humans, with some possessing the equivalent of an ATA gene that can make pocket-dimension tech do things on command, but they devolced to a level where they could not understand the advanced tech and some of the aliens decided to ritualize the control systems so as to make the tech easier to control.
 
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mrttao

Well-known member
I thought that mostly they used some form of illusion, aka hologram, to hide stuff like Hogwarts, platform 9 3/4, and other stuff.The illusion also has a forcefield to block entry working in tandem with it.
I do not think that phasing tech or pocket dimensions were what did it, just illusions.
They do not use any holograms. In fact they are incredibly bad at bending light like that. Harry's invisibility cloak is a priceless ancient artifact attributed to a deity (The Death) and impossible to recreate. The closest they get is a chameleon like spell which helps a bit. But they never really use it to hide things from muggles.

In any case, if the MiB had real-time or near-mealtime satellite surveillance
Satellites surveillance does not show unplottable land.
Mundane eyesight of a muggle does not show anything under muggle repelling charm.

Germ or nanotech warfare is another option, if the Wizards get too dangerous then I think that the MiB's biotech division could cook up something that can just kill every single wizard on the planet, since those abilities appear to be genetic in nature.
magic disrupts advanced technology so nanotech will probably break as soon as it enters a wizard. although it might still just poison them.

non magical diseases are trivial to nonexistent in wizards. Their problem is magical disease (who incidentally cannot survive in muggles, as the lack of magic causes the disease to die out)

However, the MiB should be able to acquire existing magical plagues and then just spread them. All they have to do is breed some low tier vector creatures like a kneazle (a cat with two tails who is slightly magical) and then infect them with a magical disease that is cross compatible with wizards. And then spread them throughout frequented areas. This could cause massive plague outbreaks in wizard controlled territory.

The main issue is that they won't be able to reach that territory in the first place due to it being unplotable and muggle repelling.

I would say that the most effective solution for MiB is:
1. acquire some magical children from orphanages. Raise them loyal.
2. send them to goblins to convert money.
3. send them to just buy schoolbooks and wands.
4. presumably they could physically drag an adult "parent" into an unplotable muggle repelling location and they will be fine once inside.
5. have those loyal wizards help develop countermeasures for muggle repelling via tech and magic. Once such countermeasures exists agents could wear an "anti muggle repellant amulet" AMRA for short, and just freely walk wizard lands.

Honestly if they really do not care about morality at all (as shown by being willing to use bioweapons). then they could probably support a goblin + vampire + werewolf uprising.

As a bonus they could probably acquire wizard refugees later on and "protect" them from the evil nonhumans... of course now their vote is meaningless due to being such a tiny tiny percent of the population. So they have no self governance.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
They do not use any holograms. In fact they are incredibly bad at bending light like that. Harry's invisibility cloak is a priceless ancient artifact attributed to a deity (The Death) and impossible to recreate. The closest they get is a chameleon like spell which helps a bit. But they never really use it to hide things from muggles.


Satellites surveillance does not show unplottable land.
Mundane eyesight of a muggle does not show anything under muggle repelling charm.


magic disrupts advanced technology so nanotech will probably break as soon as it enters a wizard. although it might still just poison them.

non magical diseases are trivial to nonexistent in wizards. Their problem is magical disease (who incidentally cannot survive in muggles, as the lack of magic causes the disease to die out)

However, the MiB should be able to acquire existing magical plagues and then just spread them. All they have to do is breed some low tier vector creatures like a kneazle (a cat with two tails who is slightly magical) and then infect them with a magical disease that is cross compatible with wizards. And then spread them throughout frequented areas. This could cause massive plague outbreaks in wizard controlled territory.

The main issue is that they won't be able to reach that territory in the first place due to it being unplotable and muggle repelling.

I would say that the most effective solution for MiB is:
1. acquire some magical children from orphanages. Raise them loyal.
2. send them to goblins to convert money.
3. send them to just buy schoolbooks and wands.
4. presumably they could physically drag an adult "parent" into an unplotable muggle repelling location and they will be fine once inside.
5. have those loyal wizards help develop countermeasures for muggle repelling via tech and magic. Once such countermeasures exists agents could wear an "anti muggle repellant amulet" AMRA for short, and just freely walk wizard lands.

Honestly if they really do not care about morality at all (as shown by being willing to use bioweapons). then they could probably support a goblin + vampire + werewolf uprising.

As a bonus they could probably acquire wizard refugees later on and "protect" them from the evil nonhumans... of course now their vote is meaningless due to being such a tiny tiny percent of the population. So they have no self governance.
What makes unplottable land unplottable, exactly?
Mental manipulation?
 

mrttao

Well-known member
What makes unplottable land unplottable, exactly?
Mental manipulation?
It cannot be mere mental manipulation. It removes it from all maps in the entire world.

When you make a lake (for example) unplotable, every single map on earth that depicts this lake will change to remove it from the map.

The earth is actually larger than muggles believe, they just do not realize vast tracks of lands have been rendered unplottable and as such won't show up in any atlas.

This sounds like some sort of conceptual magic to me. Similar to the Fidelius Charm

In fact unplottable locations can only be remembered by people and only people. You can remember that there is a lake 10 minutes south of town Y. But you cannot write it down or draw it on a map. Or maybe you can but it get instantly deleted the moment you finished writing it.

Magical schools are all unplotable.... which is a plot hole since the marauder's map exists somehow and should not be the case what with hogwarts being unplotable.
edit: ok found the answer
Hogwarts’ location was rendered unplottable by the four founders, as a defence measure to keep the school hidden from muggles, and to keep its inhabitants safe from Dark Wizards. However, this doesn’t prevent one from creating a map of Hogwarts, as this doesn’t actually reveal the castles location. The Marauders Map is simply a map of the locations within the castle. There are certain locations within Hogwarts that are unplottable though, such as the Room of Requirement, and the Chamber of Secrets, as neither of these locations appear on the map. (Although one could argue that the locations aren’t unplottable, the Marauders simply never discovered these locations, or knew they existed, so never bothered to add them to the map in the first place.)
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Oh as for mental compulsion... that is the muggle repelling charm. That one is mind control that only affects muggles that compels them to ignore locations as if it does not exist.
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
MiB could win if an alien buddy can help them deflect offensive or penetrate through protective spells.

If they haven't the tech already.

But same could be said about the Potterverse.

But then I am a guy who wishes the Potterverse cult to see their favorite dumbfucks annihilated by nuclear cluster carpet bombing.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
MiB could win if an alien buddy can help them deflect offensive or penetrate through protective spells.

If they haven't the tech already.

But same could be said about the Potterverse.

But then I am a guy who wishes the Potterverse cult to see their favorite dumbfucks annihilated by nuclear cluster carpet bombing.
I should note that I am not arguing that potterverse will win. I am arguing about specific individual points like the mechanics of unplotable.

The main issue with potterverse is that everyone is a moron.
While MiB is made up of hyper competent individuals.

Potterverse has the tools necessary to win easily. But those tools are wielded by simpletons and buffoons that will guarantee their loss
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
I should note that I am not arguing that potterverse will win. I am arguing about specific individual points like the mechanics of unplotable.

The main issue with potterverse is that everyone is a moron.
While MiB is made up of hyper competent individuals.

Potterverse has the tools necessary to win easily. But those tools are wielded by simpletons and buffoons that will guarantee their loss

Potterverse film or book ?
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
It cannot be mere mental manipulation. It removes it from all maps in the entire world.

When you make a lake (for example) unplotable, every single map on earth that depicts this lake will change to remove it from the map.

The earth is actually larger than muggles believe, they just do not realize vast tracks of lands have been rendered unplottable and as such won't show up in any atlas.

This sounds like some sort of conceptual magic to me. Similar to the Fidelius Charm

In fact unplottable locations can only be remembered by people and only people. You can remember that there is a lake 10 minutes south of town Y. But you cannot write it down or draw it on a map. Or maybe you can but it get instantly deleted the moment you finished writing it.

Magical schools are all unplotable.... which is a plot hole since the marauder's map exists somehow and should not be the case what with hogwarts being unplotable.
edit: ok found the answer
Hogwarts’ location was rendered unplottable by the four founders, as a defence measure to keep the school hidden from muggles, and to keep its inhabitants safe from Dark Wizards. However, this doesn’t prevent one from creating a map of Hogwarts, as this doesn’t actually reveal the castles location. The Marauders Map is simply a map of the locations within the castle. There are certain locations within Hogwarts that are unplottable though, such as the Room of Requirement, and the Chamber of Secrets, as neither of these locations appear on the map. (Although one could argue that the locations aren’t unplottable, the Marauders simply never discovered these locations, or knew they existed, so never bothered to add them to the map in the first place.)
Yeah, so an A.I. scanning a live satellite feed and comparing it to a map, then shooting stuff at the holes it finds sounds plausible.
And within the MiB's power levels.
They will just need to use the Blackguard satellite to blow anything there up.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Yeah, so an A.I. scanning a live satellite feed and comparing it to a map, then shooting stuff at the holes it finds sounds plausible.
And within the MiB's power levels.
They will just need to use the Blackguard satellite to blow anything there up.
It doesn't create holes on the map, the world literally becomes smaller from the perspective of muggles and everything around it comes together seamlessly and distorts so that there was never anything there, including space for it to be there. Like this scene:



The street is actually longer with an extra structure on it but only Wizards can see it or even walk the full length of it, muggles see a shorter road and when they walk down the road, they don't walk as far as a wizard would.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
It doesn't create holes on the map, the world literally becomes smaller from the perspective of muggles and everything around it comes together seamlessly and distorts so that there was never anything there, including space for it to be there. Like this scene:



The street is actually longer with an extra structure on it but only Wizards can see it or even walk the full length of it, muggles see a shorter road and when they walk down the road, they don't walk as far as a wizard would.

So basically a pocket dimension/gravitic phenomenon.
Sounds like something the MiB could counter, since a lot of teh alien tech they have access to is trek level and above.
 

Rhyse

Well-known member
They probably just end up working together after a series of extremely brutal ambushes/counter ambushes. Neither side can really destroy the other, nor would either side particularly want to destroy the other. Aliens are functionally the same as random magical creatures, and random magical creatures are functionally the same as aliens for the MIB.

I should note that I am not arguing that potterverse will win. I am arguing about specific individual points like the mechanics of unplotable.

The main issue with potter-verse is that everyone is a moron.
While MiB is made up of hyper competent individuals.

Potterverse has the tools necessary to win easily. But those tools are wielded by simpletons and buffoons that will guarantee their loss
It's really not the case. Most of the 'wizards are idiots' complaints seem to be from the assumption that technology is somehow better, or that the people the wizards are chasing are just not going to use magic either. Wizards in Harry Potter objectively no more than we do. We think that 'love' is a biochemical process that happens in the brain, wizards have figured out that it is in fact some sort of extra biological process that happens in the soul. We think that faster than light travel is impossible, they perform it to get to work every day. The wizards in Harry Potter for all intents and purposes are effectively living in the Star Trek world but LARP'ing as 18th century cosplayers.

In regards to MIB being 'hypercompetent'. The first film they rely entirely on standard mid 2000's police investigation techniques such as 'check the morgue'. Their method of tracking the aliens requires a voluntary registration program; and even then only some of them are under active surveillance. In the 1st film, their 'runaway' is an alien that isn't allowed to set foot outside Manhatten, and they only caught onto him leaving once he was thirty miles away and trapped in traffic, which implies they're again relying on already existing infrastructure, such as government cameras. When cockroach man landed - In an exploding fireball - they penned him in 'Upstate New York' which isn't accurate at all. They then had to rely on murder reports and eyewitness accounts to try and track him. Even when the Arquillians were going to vaporise the planet, they still didn't have a real way to track the bug, they had to rely on guessing where he'd go. They only even knew about him in the first place because of a gossip rag.

In the second film, they have to move a giant carnivorous worm (Jeff) out of the Subway, and the only way they seem to be able to do this, is have an agent rodeo it and inject it with a tranq; rather than sending in some form of drone to do so. Then, Alien Dommmy Mommy managed to take out the entire MIB by flashing her - admittedly fantastic - tits and then wrapped everyone up in tentacles. They didn't see her coming, they didn't stop her; everyone just sort of ate shit and died. Nobody in MIB HQ seems to be armed, all their guns are in a lockup (Which makes sense really) once they're on site since all it took was a single disintergrator shot to end her - for a while - and at no time did any of the agents shoot at her.

A single wizard could literally teleport into the MIB HQ - or walk into it, they don't actually stop you from doing so in the films - and start blasting, or drop a mandrake and kill a bunch of people, or summon some fiendfyre. They have a security drone, it's 12 machine guns on wheels, which, while cool as fuck, seems to be extremely dumb. It empties it's entire bullet supply into an empty lift, then never shoots and again and is dispatched by a small grenade; any random wizard can blow apart stone fortifications, or shrink the drone to the size of a thimble, or just vanish it entirely if that's their primary defence.

In MIB3 they have seven moonbases; which oddly has the armoury stocked with Vector submachine guns. The moonbases are incredibly impressive. In theory spacetravel for wizards should be entirely trivial even if they don't try and teleport things since they can create reaction-less engines small enough to be carried in the hand, and easy enough to be sold like bicycles; we haven't seen any space travel from them, so there could be a bunch of reasons why ranging from 'They don't want to' to 'Magic doesn't work in space. The only mentions of space travel in the books are a wizard who claims he has gone to the moon, the space room in the ministry of magic which notes that space and time are the current 'limits' to magic (Which could mean hard limits, or simply the cutting edge of current magical research. It's not clear which.). Harry has to write an essay on Jupiters moon Europa and it's icy features and volcanic structure - they could have gotten that from the Galileo satellite that the muggles are using - and Harry at one point wants to buy a scale model of the galaxy in an enchanted crystal ball.

They have the Arcnet, but that was a gift from aliens, not something they home developed. There's time travel, but they only have two of them, and even then they don't really 'have them'. They're owned by someone else; and they don't want to use them.

I haven't seen the animated series so I can't comment on that. Also MIB3 is truly a dire film. In terms of peer to peer boom boom, MIB might have the edge; but both sides can instantly kill agents of the other with effectively any hit. In terms of mobility wizards are better since Agents cannot teleport at will. In terms of surveillance technology, both the Ministry and the MIB HQ seem open to anyone that can get into them, with fairly minimal defences. Wizards by their nature are always armed, and agents don't seem to be, but that would probably change very quickly. In terms of mindwiping; the MIB wipes a city. Wizards have on previous occasions wiped towns, and at one point they broke time so badly it started fucking with everyone's perception of days, hours, weeks. Which would have needed a planetary mind wipe, or a very good explanation real fast. Wizards could pretty easily get Agents under their control if they find them, and MIB due to OP fiat can see wizarding settlements as well. So as far as accessing each other, they seem pretty equal.

Going from what we see in the films, it's probably a case of very short, highly violent encounters where wizards find agents, track them for a bit, teleport in and blast them apart, or vice versa, where agents get word on wizards, rock up and light them up. Both sides can turtle up like crazy. Wizards can fuck off to the most remote inhospitable places on the planet with no way for the MIB to track or stop them, the MIB can fuck off to the moon, or space, or into bunker complexes they undoubtedly have. A lot of innocent aliens/wizards die in the process, eventually both sides reach a point where further escalation would end with massive loss of life/exposure, agree through clenched teeth to a NATO/Warsaw pact style agreement where each polices their own, and have a token 'embassy' from each side in their organisations. Would be a neat fanfic.

I assume the TV series has some insane shit in it, because cartoons.
 
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Honestly, I think it would be a more interesting scenario if the ability to mind wipe in general was canceled out. both sides actually do have the tech/counter-curses to undo memory wipes it's just not really used because the ability to memory wipe is rarely used against them (Lockhart was hard to restore because the attempt to use the spell was so heavily botched thanks in part due to Ron's/Charlie's broken Wand.)

With both sides primary form of covering their tracks being proven mute, they'd either have to really think outside the box or accept having to be more in the open and react accordingly.
 
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