The LGBT and the Right

CarlManvers2019

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The religious/social conservatives argument was that these people are out to destroy society and families.

We see some of this with doctors pumping boys with esterogen cause they dare to be unruly.
Yeah, the Far Left and its “intellectuals” are really fucking obsessed with LGBT to the point they’ll make new ones

Much with the subtle hint that they find regular sexuality and gender to be too “strong”

“Toxic Masculinity” they find aggressive men, even ones who can restrain themselves, to be ones who won’t fold easily

Women who actually look like women and behave feminine? They gotta make em all into the same mould as men whether they want it or not, even down to looks
 

Abhorsen

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Which I don't get. Hell, I'm not even sure I want to get it. I can somewhat see it as a reaction to things like Drag Queen Story Hour and the ever expanding list of genders, but it still looks like a massive over-correction in that context. LGBT is not even that good an umbrella term, and the sins of one group under that umbrella don't reflect the others.

Seriously, what gives?
So this will sound weird, but what the average LGBT person wants out of the LGBT political movement is ultimately conservative. Here me out. We want basically 3 things:
1) The right to marry, form a family, and be less bothered by the government in private life.
2) The ability to work and have a house without being fired or kicked out for who you are.
3) The desire to fulfill gender roles without shame, albeit different to birth gender roles.

Now admittedly 2 is a little iffy on the conservatism, but the goal (have a job and a house) is a conservative, self reliant, good goal.

What you are about to say is that the LGBT movement haven't wanted this, point out how gays have tons of sex, and how all the non-binaries aren't wanting the gender roll, and that this is what the movement is now. But this is not the average LGBT wants, and as LGBT gets more and more rights, LGBTs were able to integrate more and more into society, and become a normal functioning part of it. And you are right, the LGBT activists hate these things. Some of them were against gay marriage because it would ruin gay culture, not realizing that gay culture exists for the same reason that Irish Cuisine exists: you made due with the shit you had, and pretended it was good. Now that we have a choice, we keep the good bits, and forget about the rest.

I mean just look at Gay culture, then vs now. In the 60s, if you were outed as gay, you got supercanceled. Not just your job and society, but also your family would exile you. You'd frequently end up living in one of the few gay 'Meccas' which were really Gommorahs. The squalor was horrific, and people would have constant meaningless sex because they had no way to set up lasting relationships. If you think now is bad, you just have no concept of how bad it used to be. They were denied renting, denied jobs, denied loans denied anyway out of poverty. Slowly, gays managed to change this by pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, and now gays are having families. Raising children, who would otherwise have been raised by the state. This is a huge conservative win in substance. A whole 5% of society cut down on rampant sex and began becoming contributing members of society.

The problem is the same problem that black culture has. There are activists who won't take the win, and think there's more to fight. There's about 3 types of this. Grifters, who want to make money off of being woker; college activists, who missed out on their opportunity to make a difference because they were born to late, and just refuse to accept that we already won; and finally the worst of all, true believers, who think that gay bathhouses are to be celebrated, and hate the idea of gay marriage. Fortunately, gay culture doesn't really maintain itself well, because it's not inheritable, so gay culture won't be taught to LGBT children, so this would normalize. But LGBT activists hate this, hence drag queen story hour, etc, and try to teach this to children (in an ultimately futile way). It will die anyway, as public schools are shit at everything, but it will take a lot longer.
 
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Cherico

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The LGBT community is going to split.

Why because intersectualism is by its nature an oppression Olympics that turns on people and is incredibly vicious about it.

White gay men will be and are being pushed out first, other gay men will be next, bisexuals are being pushed out too, lesbians are next, and after that they will turn on the transcommunity.

There are really only two parties and politics is flowing people to one side, so be prepared to have more openly gay and bi sexual republicans in office, and in the party.
 

Abhorsen

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White gay men will be and are being pushed out first, other gay men will be next, bisexuals are being pushed out too, lesbians are next, and after that they will turn on the transcommunity.
You're slighty off about the order here. Lesbians are being actively pushed out right now. Arielle Scarcella talks a lot about this, but basically trans trenders are saying that not wanting to have sex with trans woman is transphobic. Even if they have a penis. And a beard. The tag line for this is "genital preferences are transphobic," which is a subtle way of winning a conversation, because for gay and lesbians, it's not a preference, it's an orientation. They just aren't attracted to the other genital, and they don't want it. Gay conversion therapy doesn't work when the Right tried it on us, why would it work for the left?

On top of that, gender non-conforming teen girls, who might otherwise be tomboys, are being pushed into being trans. This also annoys some (especially butch) lesbians, who are like "WTF, that would have been me."

Bisexuals won't be pushed out, as we are the platonic ideal, as apparently we are attracted to everyone equally (news to me), but we will be reclassified as pansexual (which is the same goddamn thing).

Gay men, even white gay men, won't get pushed out for a while, as they control a lot of the LGBT media and stuff.

Trans people who go all the way and just want to live a normal life will eventually be lashed out at as well.

There are really only two parties and politics is flowing people to one side, so be prepared to have more openly gay and bi sexual republicans in office, and in the party.
This is something I'm looking forward to. If the republicans get enough, it will shatter the LGBT voting block. The LGBT voting block is a hell of a lot more fragile, as no one is born into the voting block, being told to vote one way or another from birth. It's only after you find out about the LGBT community that there becomes a compulsion to vote one way or another. But now, post-Bostock, LGB's have won all the legal rights we wanted, with T's just missing legal transitioning (e.g. your gender on your driving license) in about half the states.
 

Hastur of Carcosa

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There's a difference between tolerating something and being forced by others to praise it.

We know that the push for gay marriage was largely bogus: of the small percentage of gays who get married, upwards of 75% have no intention of keeping their vows. Gay activists speak openly of "transforming marriage," that is, making it over into a hedonistic partnership disconnected from family and community. Judging by their behavior, the most important part of a gay marriage isn't forming a sexual or social union, it's ordering a cake from a Christian bakery, and ruining their lives when they refuse.

What they wanted was not marriage but the defeat and humiliation of critics of homosexuality. They didn't want rights to exercise or duties to fulfill—homosexual marriage is uniquely dutiless—they wanted to dominate and punish their targets, silence debate within social networks, normalize pedophilia for their elite backers, and ultimately enforce criminal and civil sanction on political enemies.

I don't have a problem with individual gay people; it's true that I think acting on feelings of same-sex attraction is a sin, but so is a kleptomaniac acting on his urge to steal, or me acting on my urge to slack off and not fulfill my responsibilities. We all have our own crosses to bear in life, and I have no right to hate other people for theirs.

But LGBT activists would want me thrown into reeducation camps for expressing that opinion. I hope that the gay posters here understand the difference. I don't hate you; I hate the vindictive demons who claim to represent you.
@Certified_Heterosexual This this this, so much this, Sir you have expresed my feelings on the subject better than I ever have and I thank you.
 

CarlManvers2019

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This is something I'm looking forward to. If the republicans get enough, it will shatter the LGBT voting block. The LGBT voting block is a hell of a lot more fragile, as no one is born into the voting block, being told to vote one way or another from birth. It's only after you find out about the LGBT community that there becomes a compulsion to vote one way or another. But now, post-Bostock, LGB's have won all the legal rights we wanted, with T's just missing legal transitioning (e.g. your gender on your driving license) in about half the states.
Honestly, I like how the whole "slippery slope" concept gets a kick in the balls when lots of guys whom the Far Left likes to go on about how they're "hip and cool" towards get pissed off and end up becoming a new branch of the "Right" who turn out to be far more deserving of the term "liberal" than them
 

LifeisTiresome

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Honestly, I like how the whole "slippery slope" concept gets a kick in the balls when lots of guys whom the Far Left likes to go on about how they're "hip and cool" towards get pissed off and end up becoming a new branch of the "Right" who turn out to be far more deserving of the term "liberal" than them
Lol what? You speak nonsense. As has already been said, the slippery slope is real. Just because some people part of LGBT get disgusted by what they are a part of does not disprove the slippery slope.

As has been said before, leftists love obfuscating their bs. These riots which are violent are called peaceful even though they aren't.

Trojan horse, Carl. Look it up.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Lol what? You speak nonsense. As has already been said, the slippery slope is real. Just because some people part of LGBT get disgusted by what they are a part of does not disprove the slippery slope.

As has been said before, leftists love obfuscating their bs. These riots which are violent are called peaceful even though they aren't.

Trojan horse, Carl. Look it up.
There are black guys who very much disagree with all this BS the Left spouts even unto entertainment

My point was, being a "minority" doesn't necessarily mean you're stuck with those politics
 

LifeisTiresome

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There are black guys who very much disagree with all this BS the Left spouts even unto entertainment

My point was, being a "minority" doesn't necessarily mean you're stuck with those politics
Sure on your minority point. But it still does not disprove the slippery slope. The slippery slope argument is that if you allow this one thing, you will allow more things or to put it another way:

"You have to mock and ostracize deviant behavior so it does not get normalized, lest it make way for even more depraved antics."
This has been proven to be true. Thats my point.
 

Hastur of Carcosa

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Sure on your minority point. But it still does not disprove the slippery slope. The slippery slope argument is that if you allow this one thing, you will allow more things or to put it another way:

Curved_Sw0rd said:
"You have to mock and ostracize deviant behavior so it does not get normalized, lest it make way for even more depraved antics


This has been proven to be true. Thats my point.

thing is how do you define deviant behavior as that tends to very from Power structure to power structure? It wasn't long ago (in the span of human history) that we were saying these new fangald machines called computers and rock & roll were the coming of the antichrist and if you were playing D&D you were part of an occult. A little before that we were saying integration and associating with the "inferior race" would doom us all. Now the parties have seemingly reversed. Even many of the alt-right we are finding were former democrats.

The concept of the slippery slope can be it's own slippery slope.
 

Certified_Heterosexual

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This conversation on "slippery slopes" ties in very closely with some thoughts I've been having about blue-staters migrating to red states.

See, leftists don't wreck their communities with numbers. Fact is, most people aren't left-wing until they're bullied into it, or realize it is a means to gaining social status (this second point mostly applies to single white women, who are the dumbest bandwagon-chasers on the planet). Leftists moving to red states continually wreck their new homes by doing something conservatives won't: taking over the institutions of power.

It's not 5,000 liberal carpetbaggers coming from Commiefornia or Taxachusetts that will ruin a Sun Belt or Midestern town, it's the 50 that immediately take over the city council, school board, and local newspaper. They're the ones that make it okay to be a shitdick leftist in a place that should otherwise be hostile to them and their designs.

It's the conservatives who just roll over until it's too late that make this all possible. If T-levels were raised in these unsuspecting landing zones of fresh blue-voting immigrants, normal people would just tell them to fuck off. Instead what we get is an incremental surrender until one day Clint Eastwood's character in Gran Torino sees a report about his city's mayor doing anal sex on the steps of city hall in solidarity with BLM on Tucker Carlson's show and just throws up his hands in disbelief.
 

Hastur of Carcosa

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This conversation on "slippery slopes" ties in very closely with some thoughts I've been having about blue-staters migrating to red states.

See, leftists don't wreck their communities with numbers. Fact is, most people aren't left-wing until they're bullied into it, or realize it is a means to gaining social status (this second point mostly applies to single white women, who are the dumbest bandwagon-chasers on the planet). Leftists moving to red states continually wreck their new homes by doing something conservatives won't: taking over the institutions of power.

It's not 5,000 liberal carpetbaggers coming from Commiefornia or Taxachusetts that will ruin a Sun Belt or Midestern town, it's the 50 that immediately take over the city council, school board, and local newspaper. They're the ones that make it okay to be a shitdick leftist in a place that should otherwise be hostile to them and their designs.

It's the conservatives who just roll over until it's too late that make this all possible. If T-levels were raised in these unsuspecting landing zones of fresh blue-voting immigrants, normal people would just tell them to fuck off. Instead what we get is an incremental surrender until one day Clint Eastwood's character in Gran Torino sees a report about his city's mayor doing anal sex on the steps of city hall in solidarity with BLM on Tucker Carlson's show and just throws up his hands in disbelief.
true but sadly it's not going to be as easy as simply gatekeep. What's likely to get more votes? "Vote for me and I'll make sure buisness remains as usually and you can go about your life as you see fit," or "Vote for me and I'll build better houses and schools give you free cell phones and money, and I'll build monuments to you to show off your pride, and I'll have the people you don't like pay for it." if the allure of gold and silver for nothing were not tempting, the devil would not use it as a snare.
 

CarlManvers2019

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true but sadly it's not going to be as easy as simply gatekeep. What's likely to get more votes? "Vote for me and I'll make sure buisness remains as usually and you can go about your life as you see fit," or "Vote for me and I'll build better houses and schools give you free cell phones and money, and I'll build monuments to you to show off your pride, and I'll have the people you don't like pay for it." if the allure of gold and silver for nothing were not tempting, the devil would not use it as a snare.
It doesn’t help that I think Economics 101 doesn’t cover why doing it all that way is really dumb and that so much centralization has unintended side effects and bureacracy

If people even pay attention to EC101 and instead just listen to a class that sounds like it was made by watching so many “relevant” Hollywood movies

That said, local reds trying to take over those positions or even having them may come with one problem

“Rebellion” for the sake of “rebellion”

You’ll get edgy teens trying to be “different” alongside other idiots who want the attention or “social status” that would come from being “brave”
 

Yinko

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But this is not the average LGBT wants
True. From the guys I've know, most of them are as you say. I even knew one who cursed his state since it meant that he couldn't have a family of his own, his one true wish in life. I do think though that the other side of the argument does hold some sway as well though, in that long-term homosexual relationships tend to retain more promiscuity (in males) and abuse (in females) on the average.
Gay conversion therapy doesn't work when the Right tried it on us, why would it work for the left?
Yeah, I've known gay dudes who had a huge amount of T. If hormones alone worked then all gay guys would be effeminate.
the slippery slope is real.
You have to divide this sort of thing into two levels. On the one hand, slippery slopes are real and calling them fallacious is a disservice to phallus's everywhere. We can see this even in things like statistics, where once a thing happens once it becomes far more likely to happen, or in social sciences where trends result is great social movements. On the other hand, hyperbole is always BS, and that is the actual intent of having the slippery slope be a fallacy.
 

Terthna

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You have to divide this sort of thing into two levels. On the one hand, slippery slopes are real and calling them fallacious is a disservice to phallus's everywhere. We can see this even in things like statistics, where once a thing happens once it becomes far more likely to happen, or in social sciences where trends result is great social movements. On the other hand, hyperbole is always BS, and that is the actual intent of having the slippery slope be a fallacy.
In short, like with everything, context matters; and one needs to be careful of those who argue it does not.
 

CarlManvers2019

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In short, like with everything, context matters; and one needs to be careful of those who argue it does not.
Yeah, I think its been pointed out before that regular LGBT are having problems with the more politicized ones and the Political Lesbian, TransTrender and even those MAPS going around

If anything they’re basically taking over and trying to use them as bludgeons and they don’t like it but are bullied into it
 

Rocinante

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Yeah, I think its been pointed out before that regular LGBT are having problems with the more politicized ones and the Political Lesbian, TransTrender and even those MAPS going around

If anything they’re basically taking over and trying to use them as bludgeons and they don’t like it but are bullied into it
Yeah, my closest friend for the last decade is gay. So I've met and befriended a lot of gay people over the years.

@Certified_Heterosexual is extremely off with his posts. The shit he's saying? Most gays don't want that shit, and don't think like that. Most of them just want to live their lives as normal people, and not be bothered, and to be able to marry the people they love.

It's really that simple. They're just regular people. That rant seems completely unhinged.

What C_H is referring to is the LGBT activists, who are very loud, and oftentimes just white knighting leftists who aren't even gay themselves. He's right about them, but should be more specific. After they won gay marriage, there isn't much to be an activist about anymore is there? Most of the people screeching about trans shit aren't even trans, and from what I understand, a lot of trans people had it better before they were turned into leftist political pawns.

There's room on the right for gay people, had they not (along with Dems in the past,) taken such a strong stance against them. I know several gay people with CCW permits, and my close friend who I referred to earlier listens to Ben Shapiro every day.

As of now though...everyone still remembers the Dems were the first ones to start supporting gay marriage and the republicans were fighting it pretty hard. So they'll have problems recruiting gays for a while.
 
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CarlManvers2019

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As of now though...everyone still remembers the Dems were the first ones to start supporting gay marriage and the republicans were fighting it pretty hard. So they'll have problems recruiting gays for a while.
The old school Social Conservatives will die out, many Moderate Democrats and Centrists are likely to vote for Trump

If not him, they’ll be allies of the Constitutionalists and closer to LibRight types

There’s a place on The Right for Atheists too, guys like Objectivists are an example of how you don’t necessarily need faith to come up with a more objective morality and reasons to be against racism and nepotism
 
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