Tanks and other Armoured Vehicles Image thread.

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
But as far as they do not retreat,their 2 guns with autoloaders would gave them huge advantage.
No they wouldn't, this isn't Warhammer or Battletech, where more guns is better. The fact that all MBT designs approved for production since the start of WWII had a single main gun, shows the poor utility of multiple main guns, not to mention that inability to aim your gun independently of hull facing is a big tactical disadvantage.
 

ATP

Well-known member
No they wouldn't, this isn't Warhammer or Battletech, where more guns is better. The fact that all MBT designs approved for production since the start of WWII had a single main gun, shows the poor utility of multiple main guns, not to mention that inability to aim your gun independently of hull facing is a big tactical disadvantage.
Unfortunatelly,you are right.Pity.I would love to see battlefield full of T.35 or KW6 on both sides.But,like you said, life is no game.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I knew.But as far as they do not retreat,their 2 guns with autoloaders would gave them huge advantage.
P.S about WW2 - i always wondered,why Italian built so much M.13 and M.14 instead of M.18 or M.46 assault guns.They were mostly OK against british tanks, but once american M3 come,it was not funny.
relying on not retreating is a horrible thing. One should always plan for it, even if you know it won't happen. Unless there is literally no retreat.
If you notice most Tank destroyers that had no turret were obsolete by the Allies. The M10, M36, and M18 ruled supreme by that point for TD.
 

ATP

Well-known member
relying on not retreating is a horrible thing. One should always plan for it, even if you know it won't happen. Unless there is literally no retreat.
If you notice most Tank destroyers that had no turret were obsolete by the Allies. The M10, M36, and M18 ruled supreme by that point for TD.

True.Althought i undarstandt why soviets bring Su-100 - they need something capable of destroing Tigers.And their own heavies, IS2 and IS3,had shitty 122 field gun.I do not undarstandt,why they do not use 100mm AT gun from Su-100.
And german ST3 worked well against soviets,too.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Lack of cute armored vehicles on this page. I am disappointed.

bo72kj7ps4n21.jpg


And a story time!

 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
It had - but ROF was still slover 2-3 times then german 88 or soviet 100mm.Which means, that it worked as if soviet had 2-3 times less tanks then germans.
Keep in mind that IS-2 was intended as a line breakthrough vehicle, so in the first place it needed good HE round to deal with strogpoints and anti tank gun positions, anti armor capabilities were of secondary concern. It also had strong enough armor to withstand the hits from anti tank guns. But yes, their shortcomings cost them dearly on multiple occasions. It was one of the reasons behind development of the autoloader, when they moved up from 115 mm to 125 mm gun.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
True.Althought i undarstandt why soviets bring Su-100 - they need something capable of destroing Tigers.And their own heavies, IS2 and IS3,had shitty 122 field gun.I do not undarstandt,why they do not use 100mm AT gun from Su-100.
And german ST3 worked well against soviets,too.
It had - but ROF was still slover 2-3 times then german 88 or soviet 100mm.Which means, that it worked as if soviet had 2-3 times less tanks then germans.
Tanks even now awadays are used as unfantry support as well as anti armor. If a tanks mission is to be a breakthrough HE is its main. If it is a tank killer APCR and simair are its choice and are generally high velocity
Lack of cute armored vehicles on this page. I am disappointed.

bo72kj7ps4n21.jpg


And a story time!


I want one of those so badly.
Keep in mind that IS-2 was intended as a line breakthrough vehicle, so in the first place it needed good HE round to deal with strogpoints and anti tank gun positions, anti armor capabilities were of secondary concern. It also had strong enough armor to withstand the hits from anti tank guns. But yes, their shortcomings cost them dearly on multiple occasions. It was one of the reasons behind development of the autoloader, when they moved up from 115 mm to 125 mm gun.
And America is still one of the few countries left not to use a auto loader. Apperently from en ex ranker who is now MI told me, human loading is like a second faster
 

paulobrito

Well-known member
Tanks even now awadays are used as unfantry support as well as anti armor. If a tanks mission is to be a breakthrough HE is its main. If it is a tank killer APCR and simair are its choice and are generally high velocity

I want one of those so badly.

And America is still one of the few countries left not to use a auto loader. Apperently from en ex ranker who is now MI told me, human loading is like a second faster
Until is tired. Unlike humans, auto-loaders can maintain the rate of fire until the ammo stock is exhausted. Granted, very few cases where that maybe occurs, but till a capability. Alos, auto-loaders let you make a smaller tank.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Until is tired. Unlike humans, auto-loaders can maintain the rate of fire until the ammo stock is exhausted. Granted, very few cases where that maybe occurs, but till a capability. Alos, auto-loaders let you make a smaller tank.
If you need to fire so many rounds your ladder gets exhausted you are most likely in a situation where you are alone. Surrounded. And on a last stand. Tanks usually work in groups.
Smaller does not always mean better.
The Abrams is still the most battle tested current MBT that has faced non similar tanks in the field. They are still staying with the design because it works.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Loader can enter the tank tired, hungover, with stomach cramps... They also don't work that well when tank is going at high speed over uneven terrain. Human loader is slightly faster at optimum circumstances, but optimal circumstances rarely happen in combat situations. The main reason why Abrams doesn't use autolader is that these systems were still unreliable when they designed the tank and it would take complete redesign and rebuild of the tank to fit the autoloader now, so there is no willingness to do it, for little benefit it offers.
The biggest benefit of human loader is that you have a fourth guy to help with routine hard work around the tank. Keep in mind that later Western tank designs like Leclerc, K2 and Type 10 all use autoloader and so will the Abrams successor 20-30 years from now.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Loader can enter the tank tired, hungover, with stomach cramps... They also don't work that well when tank is going at high speed over uneven terrain. Human loader is slightly faster at optimum circumstances, but optimal circumstances rarely happen in combat situations. The main reason why Abrams doesn't use autolader is that these systems were still unreliable when they designed the tank and it would take complete redesign and rebuild of the tank to fit the autoloader now, so there is no willingness to do it, for little benefit it offers.
The biggest benefit of human loader is that you have a fourth guy to help with routine hard work around the tank. Keep in mind that later Western tank designs like Leclerc, K2 and Type 10 all use autoloader and so will the Abrams successor 20-30 years from now.
We will have a war where the Abrams without an Autoloader goes against a tank with one. It really only matters if both miss the first shot this day and age.
The guy I work with just happend to be a loader when he deployed.
I still don't see the benefit of an autoloader in an age when the US is preparing for war that may end up in a drawn out fight. We are switching from COIN for a reason.
 

Tryglaw

Well-known member
So, it seems Britain may be getting rid of it's tanks...


 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
So, it seems Britain may be getting rid of it's tanks...


Are...are they fucing INSANE! People thought NATO were laughing stocks before being held up by the US and all, but now...France and Germany are holding them up it seems
 

UberIguana

Well-known member
So, it seems Britain may be getting rid of it's tanks...



I'm guessing this isn't going to happen. So far it's defence chiefs saying they might as well scrap them as they haven't been upgraded in 20 years. This is when the government is trying to figure out how to pay for everything surrounding coronavirus. They're trying to make defence cuts politcally untenable.
 

Tryglaw

Well-known member
Are...are they fucing INSANE! People thought NATO were laughing stocks before being held up by the US and all, but now...France and Germany are holding them up it seems

I think Poland has more tanks then UK by now, and there are talks about us buying manufacturing license for the K2 from Hyundai Rotem - which would be very good, it's a very advanced tank and we already bought license for K-9 self-propelled howitzers from them (as we were unable to make the domestically made T-72 chassis not-crack while shooting)...
 

Harlock

I should have expected that really
Seems like Round 400 of the annual Navy vs Airforce vs Army budget battle. The RAF is trying to shaft the Navy for more F-35s, the Navy is fighting everyone for its nuke boats and frigates, and the Army looks like its the loser this time.

I'd be surprised if they do dump them, upgrades are estimated at £500 million which isn't huge in budget terms, though the idea of buying German has been floated either. Otherwise its going to be Striker brigades which worked so well in Iraq :p
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Army has been the loser forever, they get a boost when there is a big war and when the war ends thy get shafted like the red headed stepchild they are. And worse, once RAF was created, they got knocked down a rung. But at least the MoD bureaucrats are doing well and that's what counts in the Whitehall
 

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