We'll agree to disagree here. I still believe that my handshake is a contract along with my word.
Breaking News Student Loan Payments to Resume
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KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
more power to you, but be careful not to let yourself be taken advantage of.
I'm aware others don't believe as I do nor behave the same way.
However, a loan contract explicitly states the obligations of both parties...bank (the lender) and the borrower (the student).
That has nothing to do with the schools. They just get the money. If the product the schools are selling is defective or fraudulent in some way then they can and should be held accountable.
Of course, the Govt got involved which has now muddied the waters.
However, a loan contract explicitly states the obligations of both parties...bank (the lender) and the borrower (the student).
That has nothing to do with the schools. They just get the money. If the product the schools are selling is defective or fraudulent in some way then they can and should be held accountable.
Of course, the Govt got involved which has now muddied the waters.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
and that is the problem. what should have been two parties involved (The school and the student) involves four parties( the school, the student, the banks/federal reserve) and because of so many cooks in the kitchen 3 of the 4 parties can shuffle responsibility to the point of absolving themselves giving themselves a blank check to do anything they want while leaving one party to foot the whole thing with a bird on the way out.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Bankruptcy is just common sense. Literally one of the US states was founded as a direct result of the problems that occur when debt can't be forgiven in bankruptcy, the fact that people have forgotten this is kind of crazy.
I also think people tend to underestimate the standard of proof you need to be able to declare bankruptcy.
Anyway unlike most people here I don't feel ripped off by college.... Graduated in 2022 with $25K in loans, now I make $75K. Very unlikely I'd make that much if I hadn't gone to college. I will probably hit $100K+ before 25 years old.
I think the big mistakes some people make are:
1). Going to for profit universities. They aren't reputable and generally lack quality in a lot of ways.
2). Getting degrees that aren't specified enough. Excessively broad tech degrees, degrees in things like "business," etc.
3). Not understanding that learning the ability to network and sell yourself and your skills/abilities is like half the value of a college degree.
4). Not understanding the way their own skills, abilities, interest, and personality affects what they can do. Not anyone can do accounting, or engineering, or nursing. But not because any of those things are actually hard. Some people just have some personalities that find certain types of work easier. Chasing a field you are not at all inclined for (in interest or skill) because it pays well, and just thinking that you'll "push through it", is a recipe for failure.
I also think people tend to underestimate the standard of proof you need to be able to declare bankruptcy.
Anyway unlike most people here I don't feel ripped off by college.... Graduated in 2022 with $25K in loans, now I make $75K. Very unlikely I'd make that much if I hadn't gone to college. I will probably hit $100K+ before 25 years old.
I think the big mistakes some people make are:
1). Going to for profit universities. They aren't reputable and generally lack quality in a lot of ways.
2). Getting degrees that aren't specified enough. Excessively broad tech degrees, degrees in things like "business," etc.
3). Not understanding that learning the ability to network and sell yourself and your skills/abilities is like half the value of a college degree.
4). Not understanding the way their own skills, abilities, interest, and personality affects what they can do. Not anyone can do accounting, or engineering, or nursing. But not because any of those things are actually hard. Some people just have some personalities that find certain types of work easier. Chasing a field you are not at all inclined for (in interest or skill) because it pays well, and just thinking that you'll "push through it", is a recipe for failure.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
Good for you. The rest of us weren't taught those skills. You rolled a lucky 7 in a broken game, doesn't really change the fact that the game is broken.
As someone who has never had a student loan I can only sit here and act smug about the whole ordeal. You signed on the line to get money to go to an institution which may or may have not provided you a chance for a higher paying job.
In short while I sympathize for those who have been bamboozled at an early age to buy into the myths associated with college the fact is that all the information was there should they have simply looked before signing.
Kinda like a house or a piece of property you are getting a loan for it doesn't matter what the seller says the value is or what they say if you don't go look at the property yourself and have it appraised by a professional you're just asking to buy swamp land.
In short while I sympathize for those who have been bamboozled at an early age to buy into the myths associated with college the fact is that all the information was there should they have simply looked before signing.
Kinda like a house or a piece of property you are getting a loan for it doesn't matter what the seller says the value is or what they say if you don't go look at the property yourself and have it appraised by a professional you're just asking to buy swamp land.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
@Free-Stater 101 I love you man but that realization should have been your que to stay silent.
Maybe but the rest of my point stands. Like I said I sympathize with people's plight, but I disagree with the whole student loan debt forgiveness.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
Well can't help you there. Frankly at this point I'm hoping for a great reset of some kind. (Not the WEF's version of it )
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Typhonis
Well-known member
Also, I think the schools seem to want to downplay or even not acknowledge that something like trade schools exist. Sure it isn't being a doctor or a lawyer but as one comic said "I saw my mother, who is a lawyer, in desperate need of a plumber. I haven't seen a plumber in desperate need of a lawyer"
These are all solid points, and I was told enough to be smart enough, to at least pick a good degree. But I didn't even need it. A few solid certs, and for less than a couple thousand I could have landed all the same jobs. I did benefit from the networking, though.
Anyways, the recent emphasis on trade schools wasn't around back then. For us, it was our entire lives "just go to college and you'll be fine. Even if it's just a general education degree, they'll get you jobs, if you don't go, you'll be a failure" and for the most part, we trusted that. My parents emphasized that i needed to pick a good degree, but us kids were told by teachers, guidance counselors, parents, TV, everyone around us our entire lives: "go to college or you're a failure," while simultaneously being told "you can do anything you set your mind to, chase your dreams...as Long as those dreams mean going to college."
Most kids didn't know they were screwing themselves. And while it's true that people should research and make wise choices, when they are following the advise of ALL the people around them that they trust, for their entire life, they think they ARE making the wisest decision. They're kids. They don't know any better and no one was teaching them that there are other options that can work, or that they need to find a good major and pursue that. No, we were literally told any major would do, just go. My parents were an exception, thankfully!
That said, I'm also against the kind of forgiveness Biden was doing. These 25 year plans? They're fine. I don't think it's hurting the lenders much, they're some of the richest people in the nation. They'll be fine. They're still turning a profit. I don't feel bad, because my generation got fucking duped, and our way out is a 25 year commitment.
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Let's see...
I enlisted and had the GI Bill to cover a lot of my expenses. Only really took out loans while I was in the National Guard & went to College. Once I got out of the Nasty Guard I worked full time at the Post Office while finishing my degree. Made enough I didn't have to take any other loans out.
Almost all universities are for profit at this point. Just look at how many credits are required AWAY from your degree and you'll be able to tell.
I did that. Philosophy degree here. Got it because it was interesting to me and I really like understanding how people build the foundations of their beliefs and thought processes, flawed or not.
Networking is a HUGE part of all colleges/universities. It will, more often than not, greater benefits than your degree will.
Meh...this isn't that important honestly. As long as you're willing to put in effort to learn other skills as necessary. You don't have to love what you do. You just have to be willing to put in the work so that you can provide for you and yours.
Personally, I got my degree and went into sales fields. Didn't need my degree for those, but it was good exposure to the saying, "Successful people are those that become comfortable doing uncomfortable things." I ended up moving into a position where a degree was required. Did well at that, but left for reasons. Now I'm in a sales position where a degree is definitely not required, and I make more than double what I did in the job that required a degree.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
For profit is a legal designation, not about whether or not they want to make money from students.
Philosophy degrees get riffed on way too much. Philosophy is actually one of the top earning degrees, which I think is partly because of the type of person who decides to dedicate four years of their live studying philosophy.
Lots of people invested in higher fellow alumni, for sure.
You're an ex enlistee who did a philosophy degree, I don't think the average persons work ethic or character approaches yours.
Even assuming it does: if you hate your job you are generally gimping yourself.
Maintaining intrinsic motivation is a core part of avoiding burnout and achieving success.
Sure. Anyone who's dedicated can power through any job. But if you choose a job that plays to your personal strengths every part of that job will require less effort from you than it would from an average person.
On the other hand, if the job doesn't play to your personal strengths, every part of the job will require even more effort than it does for the average person.
Certainly a huge difference between loving and actively hating your job. Lots of room in the middle to just work.
Agreed.
Though there is something to be said about the attitude of, "I'm willing to do any kind of work as long as it allows me to take care of my family."
Student loans anymore are predatory, and so are the universities. It is impossible to just work your way through college anymore. That is a thing of the past, along with the value of a 4-year degree. Since the government has gotten involved, they are essentially signing a blank check for the universities, who keep raising their prices to hire on more administrators for stuff like "diversity and inclusion" and they'll tear down beautiful, hundred-year old historic buildings to put up newer "modern" buildings that look ugly, because they know no matter what, they'll get their money. Meanwhile, the student is on the hook no matter what now, and they'll literally send a swat team after you if you default on your loans (and then claim it was for something else). And a lot of students are basically talked into it by parents, teachers, and school counselors, who convince them that they're practically guaranteed a good-paying job if they get a degree, even if it's something like general studies, and that they can easily pay off their loans. Meanwhile college degrees have come to be expected, even in jobs that should not require them, and it's gotten to the point that not only is a degree required, but businesses have taken on the attitude that they only want the cream of the crop (and to reduce the number of resumes they have to go through), so they'll add other requirements on top of it like a minimum GPA requirement. C student? B student? Too bad! No job for you!
Yeah, since the Gubmint got involved it's gotten really stupid. I think it really started with letting the government determine what people need in order to practice law and medicine. From there the Gov. decided what things qualify you for certain degrees. Once they gauranteed loans...the laws of Supply vs Demand went right out the window.
The is precisely why I have no sympathy for the 'well, we paid off loans the old fashioned way back in the day' groups who got degrees during completely different social epochs of American society and when we hadn't outsource/off-shored so many good paying jobs.
The paradigm that the old college/university grads went through no longer exists, they pulled the ladder up behind themselves for the most part, and do not want to admit they fucked the younger gens to get cheaper CCP shit at Walmart.
But the old folks just want to be resentful towards people who live in 'easier times' and make the younger suffer as much as they did, or more, out of either a twisted idea of 'fairness' or just 'fuck the youth, all that matters is our retirement'.
When Joe Biden was part of the bill that disallowed default on student loans is about the inversion point in academia and the wider culture.