Skyrim is for the Nords and the Thalmor can’t invade Skyrim. Ulfric is making Skyrim great again. The Thalmor are used as a boogeyman to keep Skyrim under the thumb of the globalist Empire. Ulfric being a Thalmor puppet is fake news.
Stormcloaks vs Imperials
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I calll em as I see them.
And as we can plainly see you are wrong. Just look at how utterly cluttered Ultima is, and how relatively crisp and clear Arena is. I think we can see the relationship if anything, would be innovating upon the same concept- which is far different than a mere clone.
Honestly, you don't need to play arena, just read a wiki article. And it really isn't a flaw, to actually understand a well written setting you should need to dig. And Morrowind is better, if you actually made it in a modern engine it would be superior in all metrics. Today, it does suffer from being dated, but everything else that made it good then still shines through.
Because the Empire and Hammerfall pretty much intentionally screwed them? Intentionally let Hammerfell leave the Empire, and then happened to "release" all the veterans who were from Hammerfell at the same time?
You'd need the forces of more than just Skyrim and Hammerfell. The Empire if it wins, has High Rock, Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and at least nominally Morrowind.
Skyrim is like all Tamriel, rightful Cyrod clay. They just graciously let the other races exist their due to their infinite benevolence. The ending of the words is...REEEEEMAAAAAN!
That does not match what I've heard about Morrowind (or rather, I've heard the setting is great, but it's weighted down by an awful plot).
Ok, so those two claims don't seem to align. Hammerfall only won because they had help from legionaries that were from hammerfall (not additional forces from outside hammerfall, just people that would have been in hammerfall had it been on it's own), but you can't fight the dominion with just one province, you need all of them together.
The plot is actually quite great, that just means people have a horrible sense of taste and no idea what a good plot is. So in short idiots.
edit: Sorry, I am getting angry at what I see as a distinct lack of appreciation for what is a really great game. It is the writing that brings me back, and the actually interesting plot and setting.
They align perfectly. Hammerfell won, because of the Empire pretty much intentionally playing fast and loose with the treaty and intentionally fucking with the Dominion as much as they could. And the information we are given about the conflict is unclear, for instance Kematu actually implies they are still fighting.
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Or it could be reinstated with an independent Skyrim and no, Thalmor can’t invade the Stormcloaks.
Hammerfell repelled the Thalmor. You would need to first conquer Cyrodil or conquer High Rock in order to even reach them. “And don’t say go around it” lol. That’s like saying we invade Russia by going through Canada and over the North Pole. Skyrim is A-Okay on its own. Cyrodil needs Skyrim for bodies to protect itself, to throw Nords into a meat grinder while giving them nothing in a return and making them have an open borders immigration policy to the rest of the Imperium. Skyrim has nothing to gain by staying and actual national sovereignty by leaving.
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Or it could be reinstated with an independent Skyrim and no, Thalmor can’t invade the Stormcloaks.
Hammerfell repelled the Thalmor. You would need to first conquer Skyrim or conquer High Rock in order to even reach them. “And don’t say go around it” lol. That’s like saying we invade Russia by going through Canada and over the North Pole. Skyrim is A-Okay on its own. Cyrodil needs Skyrim for bodies to protect itself, to throw Nords into a meat grinder while giving them nothing in a return and making them have an open borders immigration policy to the rest of the Imperium. Skyrim has nothing to gain by staying and actual national sovereignty by leaving.
In the short-term, perhaps. But the elves don't think in the short-term, they think in the longterm given how their lives tend to be measured in the centuries on the low-end.
They can just play the long-game with the Empire weakened and divided and slowly pick at it piecemeal. It might seem that the Nords having nothing to gain by staying, when in fact they have everything to gain. Because in the longterm, they are just letting the Thalmor win, one day Cyrodiil and Hammefell will fall without a united front and then the Thalmor will border Skyrim and they will be alone. And you might even have Thalmor members who are old enough to remember the third or even second era. They can definitely play the long game.
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Continuing conflict is best for an entrepreneurial Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild Khajiit with a taste for the moon sugar and an inability to properly budget monthly expenses. 
Continued conflict, Imperial victory or even a Stormcloak victory, also works well for embroiling the Thalmor in problems if they keep trying to meddle. On the surface they look like hot shit imposing their will or installing puppet-kings, but those piddly-dink little heresy patrols they've got in the countryside can't do shit when the snow starts praising Talos. All the Empire has to do is just divert from enforcing the ban on Talos-worship--whether that be by necessity of ongoing fight, Skyrim's independence, or post-civil war reconstruction efforts--and the Thalmor have more problems than they do benefits from the whole fiasco. Especially if they try to redouble their efforts and sail out enough forces to try and occupy and enforce the White-Gold Concordat on Skyrim.
Continued conflict, Imperial victory or even a Stormcloak victory, also works well for embroiling the Thalmor in problems if they keep trying to meddle. On the surface they look like hot shit imposing their will or installing puppet-kings, but those piddly-dink little heresy patrols they've got in the countryside can't do shit when the snow starts praising Talos. All the Empire has to do is just divert from enforcing the ban on Talos-worship--whether that be by necessity of ongoing fight, Skyrim's independence, or post-civil war reconstruction efforts--and the Thalmor have more problems than they do benefits from the whole fiasco. Especially if they try to redouble their efforts and sail out enough forces to try and occupy and enforce the White-Gold Concordat on Skyrim.
Something that bears mentioning that is important is who the main leaders of the factions are too. My initial sympathies lay with the Stormcloaks; however, Ulfric is clearly a person more focused on personal glory and his own self interest than the good of the people. Sure he claims to represent the Nords, but his way of going about things show little regard for the actual traditions and culture of Skyrim, and rather naked opportunism and pragmatism in gaining power for himself.
It might be better for Skyrim to be free and not under the Empire, but not under Ulfric, who is likely to turn into a tyrant if things don't exactly go his way.
Tellius, meanwhile, is clearly taking a longer-term view, is not focused on his own personal glory and concerns, but rather is attempting to work a pragmatic long game against the the real enemy: the Dominion. As such, he tries to do everything he can to prepare for the real fight.
So from a long term perspective, I think siding with the Empire is the better approach. The Stormcloaks have some fair points, granted, but in the end, their leadership I think is much more concerning and incompetent, to say nothing of potentially compromised by the Thalmore, than the Empire is.
Also, as a reminder, the Empire is not foreign to Skyrim, it was more of less born in Skyrim, Tiber Septim may have even been a Nord... minimally he grew up in the region.
It might be better for Skyrim to be free and not under the Empire, but not under Ulfric, who is likely to turn into a tyrant if things don't exactly go his way.
Tellius, meanwhile, is clearly taking a longer-term view, is not focused on his own personal glory and concerns, but rather is attempting to work a pragmatic long game against the the real enemy: the Dominion. As such, he tries to do everything he can to prepare for the real fight.
So from a long term perspective, I think siding with the Empire is the better approach. The Stormcloaks have some fair points, granted, but in the end, their leadership I think is much more concerning and incompetent, to say nothing of potentially compromised by the Thalmore, than the Empire is.
Also, as a reminder, the Empire is not foreign to Skyrim, it was more of less born in Skyrim, Tiber Septim may have even been a Nord... minimally he grew up in the region.
That's actually sorta the problem, in that the imperial long game is way too long.
Let's say that for reason, it takes them twice as long to train a soldier as the real roman empire, and that they can only train one legion at a time, also for reasons. IRL, Marius took 2 years to take an army from totally green to field ready (and that was extra long, because he wasn't building it around a core of experienced soldiers as was the norm). So it take the TES one 4 years, max.
That's 5 new legions, to replace the 2 they lost in the war, and that's a major lowball.
As I understand it, the civil war in skyrim is relatively recent, triggered by the thalmor finding out the empire hadn't been cracking down on Takos worship. And instead of saying "no, we're not, what are you gonna do about it?", the empire back down again.
Exactly how long are they planning to "totally be rebuilding for round 2, we swear, totally willing to fight this out"?
LindyAF
Well-known member
tbh I agree with @Hastur of Carcosa that, provided the Dragonborn is a Nord (or at least a Man), the logical person to lead Skyrim would be the Dragonborn, since IIRC Skyrim agreeing to become part of Tiber Septim's empire was due to him proving himself to be Dragonborn, the Dragonborn arguably has the best claim to be his inheritor at least as far as Skyrim is concerned.
The Empire as it currently exists seems to be doing a pretty poor job, all things considered. One of the themes of Skyrim seemed to be the Empire in decay. We have the lost war, the Empire's seeming acceptance of banning worship of their own founding deity, the Empire's loss of control and breakdown of order both with the Stormcloak rebellion and the earlier Forsworn one, the decline of the Blades, and culminating in the possible assassination of the Emperor.
And while the Thalmor may have encouraged and tried to instigate the Stormcloak rebellion, that is no guarantee that it will actually work in their favor. The US government has funded many organizations that later bit the US in the ass.
The Empire as it currently exists seems to be doing a pretty poor job, all things considered. One of the themes of Skyrim seemed to be the Empire in decay. We have the lost war, the Empire's seeming acceptance of banning worship of their own founding deity, the Empire's loss of control and breakdown of order both with the Stormcloak rebellion and the earlier Forsworn one, the decline of the Blades, and culminating in the possible assassination of the Emperor.
And while the Thalmor may have encouraged and tried to instigate the Stormcloak rebellion, that is no guarantee that it will actually work in their favor. The US government has funded many organizations that later bit the US in the ass.
JasonSanjo
Your Overlord and Jester
FudgeMuppet did release a video on the subject a few years ago:
It's not overly detailed, but it does raise a few valid points.
It's not overly detailed, but it does raise a few valid points.
novussa
Active member
when it comes to the skyrim civil war it is important to remember that the thalmor wants it to continue. A imperial victory would bring skyrim fully under the empires control. a stormcloack victory would bring skyrim under nordic thalmor hating goverment who has experiance fithing them. Either is bad for the thalmor. In the imperial case the nord will be fighting with the empire on the other hand stormclocks can easily defend skyrim first the moutains that surround it will give them chokepoints to use they also already use hit an run tactics agains the empire so they can fall back on those if they need. Also remeber that thalmor would be operating on long supply line throught cyrodil who cerentily resist thalmor rule anyway they can.
Ulfric didn’t really do anything wrong though.
Except he did?
He at least violated the spirit of the rules of the duel in the "old Nord way" by using a Dragon Shout to kill Torygg and in fact killing him was minimally irregular (as the duels historically were not to the death).
As to him being a tyrant, he expelled Argonians and Khajit from Stormwind for no legitimate reason that I have been able to find. The entire way he governs Windhelm, in fact, point to a rather tyrannical aspect. Strict restrictions on races allowed and where they are allowed, his city guard being completely incompetent to find a serial killer who it terrorizing the city, among various other issues Windhelm has due to either his distraction with the war or due to him simply not caring.
These do not paint a picture of a man who is a good ruler, nor one whom will end up governing well or wisely. He clearly like pitting those under him against one another and uses non-Nord peoples as scapegoats even if they've done nothing wrong. These are not traits of a person who is a just ruler, but one who is likely to walk the path of tyranny.
Yeah and Caesar crossed the Rubicon, destroying that tradition and breaking those laws. Caesar did what he did for both himself and for Rome and Rome was better for it.
Based. Skyrim is for the Nords. Khajit are drug addicts and argonians are degenerates. They don’t belong.
again this is perfectly fine. Skyrim is for the Nords.
A Skyrim without Nords or one replaced by non-Nords isn’t Skyrim any longer.
it’s not a question of what they’ve done, it’s what good for the Nord people. These groups bring drugs, they bring crime, they take jobs and opportunities from Nords, and a million years can’t make a Khajit into a Nord. Khajits have elseweyr, it sucks so they come to Skyrim, and people who can’t make their own nation good certainly aren’t going to make yours any good.
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Val the Moofia Boss
Well-known member
I do remember that Khajit are usually vagrant drug addicts and criminals, but I can't remember any defining schtick for the Argonians. I think I only remember that one lady Argonian innkeeper in Riften and she seemed nice.
. . .
It's not. Let's just ignore the Falmir because that entire situation is skrewy, but there's multiple ethnic groups that predate the Nords living in Skyrim by thousands of years. Bretons lived in much of the eastern holds completely independently of the Nord holds long before a single Nord was in that region. The Orcs also have a long history of holds in the region predating them. Skyrim is not, nor was it ever, an ethno-state. Tiber Septum for instance, definitely grew up in Skyrim and it was his base for creating the Empire, but he might have been EITHER a Nord or a Breton, and nobody knows for sure.
You don't get to cloak yourself as a "traditionalist" and upholding tradition as Ulfric does while breaking tradition. All it showcases is that he is opportunist and self-serving, willing to say whatever best serves his immediate purposes and interests. Thus lacking honor and morals. All ingredients for petty tyranny.
As to the rest of your crap, I get that you're transplanting your RL politics into Skyrm and basically trolling, but the actual lore of the game strongly indicates that Skyrim, it's history and people were never an ethnostate for the Nords, but rather a mixed people of Bretons and Nords.
Also, the Khajit aren't coming to settle, they're nomadic traders. They're not taking any jobs from the local Nords, they're providing trade back to the rest of Cyrodil that can provide goods that are not capable of being made in Skyrim while offering local merchants more opportunities to sell goods and expand their market. Do some deal in black market goods? Certainly, but the amount of smuggling done by the Khajit pales in comparison to the activities originating out of the Nordic Riften.
As to the Argonians, there's literally no evidence that they are degenerates or bad people. They're just lizardfolk who want to live peacefully, and are a fairly small minority overall.
You want to point that rhetoric of "coming and stealing our jobs and displacing population", then you should be talking about the Dark Elves, who, I would note, apparently are not considered as bad as Argonians and Khajit, since they're allowed to stay in Windhelm just isolated into their own ward. Though it's hard to say they screwed up their homeland since, yanno, the reason they're refugees has to do with a legit natural disaster rather than anything they did or could have foreseen.
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
In addition to that, lets not forget that, unlike Caeser, Ulfric isn't a victorious leader of men.
Man's big contribution to the war that ended in the White-Gold Concordat? His backstory of leadership and command in battle? His brave, Nord origin-story? *drum-roll* Getting captured by the elves (and possibly finagled into becoming a patsy)!
A man like Fried dedicated to the Skyrim First platform should like a Nord who wasn't captured by the elves to be High King.
This basically seems the be-all of it, and much as I amuse myself with my own 'actually, the Thalmor's nefarious plans will backfire on them!' navel-gazing, there being a conclusion one way or another is probably the better result in terms of confounding the elves.
Leaders on both sides of the civil war look...pretty weak and ineffectual. One revolving about fiery rhetoric and the other doing a bad copy of nefarious scheming that looks pretty much like thumb-twiddling for how passive it is. But the matter being settled pushes other threats (the Thalmor most prominently) into being the ones that need to be faced instead of jockeying for Skyrim leadership via lives.