Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
[Darth Vitiate] Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same.[Palpatine] I am the woke mob!
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
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Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Pretty sure the saberstaff appeared long before the prequels, with Exar Kun's first visual appearance in the Tales of the Jedi comics.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Right, but most moviegoers probably don’t read the other source material, so it’d make sense if they were delightfully surprised when more “devoted” fans had seen that already.
In any case, it probably was exciting to watch the first live-action scenes featuring a saberstaff specialist — even for those who already read Tales of the Jedi and knew all about how Exar Kun was the “real” OG.
That, and they made the choice to have a true martial artist wielding the saber staff! Made it an awesome scene for me!
StormEagle
Well-known member
That’s another thing.
The prequels get, rightly or wrongly, a ton of shit flung at them. I personally blame Mr. Plinkett for popularizing a lot of the complaints.
But if there is one thing the prequels have going for them, it’s the fight choreography. Most of the fights in the prequels feel authentic and like there’s actual “weight”, for lack of a better word, to them.
None of the sequel fights feel like actual fights. They feel fake, there’s little actual emotion in them, or they just don’t make sense.
Let’s compare a couple of fights here. Maul vs. Jin and Obi-wan and Rey vs. Kylo.
Maul had a menacing presence throughout his fight. He’s completely silent as he fights the two Jedi and solidly holds his own throughout.
He actually manages to kill a main character and nearly kills another. The end of the fight is a bit of an asspull, but the rest of it is completely solid and gripping.
The fact that Duel of the Fates is one of Williams best works definitely helps as well.
Meanwhile, Kylo completely embarrassed himself. His aura of menace had already been shattered by his confrontation with Han and the actor himself can’t pull off menace. He doesn’t have the face for it.
Say what you will about Hayden Christensen, but when he didn’t have any cringe dialogue, he had some great emotional and facial control. Kylo? Eh, not so much.
Then he gets his ass kicked by a girl that has almost no experience with the force and no experience with a lightsaber.
Any hope of taking him seriously was ruined after that.
And the entire sequel trilogy is like that. It sets up villains that could be cool and threatening…only to completely undermine them later on. Sometimes in the same movie.
Snoke was killed with basically no fanfare. I already went in on Kylo. Blonde haired man whose name escapes me right now had a good speech, only to be repeatedly humiliated. Usually by Kylo. Silvery storm trooper lady gets thrown in the garbage shoot. And I don’t even understand what the hell is going on with Sidious. His entire appearance could honestly have a laugh track played over it.
The originals and sequels did not undermine their villains like this. They had their comic relief characters, but when the villains were on the screen, shit got serious.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
The problem with the Plinkett stuff is that it was an exaggerated, one-sided thing; which was fine, since it was comical, but it was taken 100% seriously by way too many people. Lots of valid criticisms there, but a lot of over-the-top whining, too.
As far as the light-sabre combat goes, the OT did it best, but TPM wasn't actually that bad. AotC wasn't that bad, either. Most of the "looks like it's out of an anime" stuff is in RotS. They really took it too far, there. Still specacular choreography, of course, but it's just completely ridiculous spinny stuff. It doesn't look like a real fight.
The sequel duels are pathetic. They wanted to go for 'realism', but the people involved just weren't as good and/or as dedicated.
As far as the light-sabre combat goes, the OT did it best, but TPM wasn't actually that bad. AotC wasn't that bad, either. Most of the "looks like it's out of an anime" stuff is in RotS. They really took it too far, there. Still specacular choreography, of course, but it's just completely ridiculous spinny stuff. It doesn't look like a real fight.
The sequel duels are pathetic. They wanted to go for 'realism', but the people involved just weren't as good and/or as dedicated.
StormEagle
Well-known member
Eh, I agree with a good portion of what Plinkett said, but I feel like he was kinda off base about the lightsaber combat.
Don’t get me wrong, the fights in the OT were good. But they were good for different reasons, largely to do with characterization.
The prequel fights are at least fun entertainment, feel like they actually have something going on with the characters, and have actually menacing villains.
I’d argue that the end fight in RotS only falls short when compared to RotJ because of the character interaction between Luke, Vader, and Sidious. The fight between Grievous and Obi-wan is also good fun.
…I am purposefully ignoring most of the Yoda fights, as I do actually agree with Plinkett that him fighting with a lightsaber kinda undermines his character in the OT. Same with Palpy, who seemed to largely disdain lightsabers in RotJ.
Honestly speaking, it would have made more sense to me if they had given Windu the last fight against the emperor and had him die there, facing off against a true master of the dark side.
Instead of getting sucker amputated by Anakin and thrown out a window.
I also don’t really see why “it’s like an anime” is a point of complaint? There are a lot of amazing anime out there, and I don’t see why western entertainment shouldn’t seek to emulate some of it.
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I liked it from a Narrative perspective. It felt like Sidious threw the fight with Windu in order to give Anakin the opportunity to fully embrace the dark side. My take.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Watched a couple clips of Young Jedi Adventures. As you can imagine, it’s… definitely not a masterpiece.
If anything, I actually wonder if it’s more akin to the kind of “Holo-show” that parents would turn on for their kids in-universe? You know, kind of like an in-universe version of Dora the Explorer — though regrettably, it’s all too real and unironically part of Disney Canon.
If anything, I actually wonder if it’s more akin to the kind of “Holo-show” that parents would turn on for their kids in-universe? You know, kind of like an in-universe version of Dora the Explorer — though regrettably, it’s all too real and unironically part of Disney Canon.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Nah, Sidious was genuinely shitting his pants as that purple sabre flew towards him. Half of it was for show, yes, but in those last seconds of Windu bringing down the killer blow, you see the abject panic in Sidious’s eyes and voice as he pleads for his life.
Mace Windu is just that overwhelming. Unfortunately, Anakin had to be a fucking donut, and the Empire wasn’t nipped in the bud then and there.
Typhonis
Well-known member
The problem is...Anakin has been played since he met Palpatine and the Jedi did not help in that matter. Hell he killed Tyrannus earlier and Sidious said he was too dangerous to be taken in. Now he comes across Windu getting ready to kill Sidious and tells him they need to take him in for trial....What does Windu say? He is too dangerous to take in.
At that moment Anakin couldn't tell the Sith and Jedi apart.
Lastly Anakin was not loyal to concepts or ideas. He was loyal to people. Look at how he reacts when a friend is in danger or even Padme.
This is so true. People shit on it now but that lightsaber duel was the shit and the audiences, Warsies and normies alike loved it. I remember people joking about how they wish the next movie would just be lightsaber fights because of how awesome the Duel of Fates was.
And maybe some podracing.
Go sit in the corner. You know what you've done.
OBJECTION YOUR HONOR!
It is a Matter of Law SIR!
And we all know how long the Courts take to decide something compared to like the Senate.
When Lucas looked back on Episode 2 a few years after, he apparently said, "yeah, you can tell that the people animating the CGI clones were animators".
When Episode 3 was in production, he hired ex-military/ex-SEALs for Clone Trooper motion capture.
This is why the clones looked so badass in RoTS, especially on Utapau.
Val the Moofia Boss
Well-known member
I overall quite liked the Prequel Trilogy. They are very good, high production value fantasy films. You get to see a lot of different planets and cultures and the trilogy is visually iconic. Great aesthetics. There is a reason why there are dozens and dozens of Prequel trilogy artbooks and visual encloypedias. Lucas found really good designers. On a technical level, I find myself more immersed in the green screen and visual effects than the much more conspicuous CGI of modern movies.
The soundtrack is great.
The story is very good. The trilogy has a massive cast of characters and multiple factions and is able to juggle them very well. I understand everyone's motivations. I like the heroes and I want them to succeed. RotJ is novel in that it does something you see most writers don't attempt: the heroes fail and the villains win.
There are a few wonky points. There is a 10-20 minute long stretch in the last 1/3rd of TPM that is rather slow and boring (I'm thinking the time they spend on Coruscant, and when they return to Naboo and are hanging out with the Gungans). Not much tension. Child Anakin was miscast. It's strange seeing him say "are you an angel?" to a woman and him singlehandedly blowing up the mothership wasn't very convincing. It also gets weird in the later movies where he is made out to be a peer of Obi-Wan, and then you have his romance with Padme (she was pining for a little boy?). If the actor was a teenager I probably would have been fine with it.
The 2nd movie sets up a subplot about Master Sifo-Dyas (or however he is spelled) but the 3rd movie never really pays off on it. IIRC according to the Secret History of Star Wars book about how the scripts evolved over time, that subplot got dropped pretty quickly. It's a minor point, though.
In the 2nd movie, I wasn't really convinced that Anakin and Padme actually loved each other. They seemed to have yet another Hollywood movie whirlwind romance where they become infatuated with each other over a few days, and that's supposed to be "love".
The OT has tighter pacing, but has a reduced cast and setting, I wasn't as enamored with the relatively mundane planets and the aesthetic of blocky spaceships with paint chipping off. Still great, though.
The soundtrack is great.
The story is very good. The trilogy has a massive cast of characters and multiple factions and is able to juggle them very well. I understand everyone's motivations. I like the heroes and I want them to succeed. RotJ is novel in that it does something you see most writers don't attempt: the heroes fail and the villains win.
There are a few wonky points. There is a 10-20 minute long stretch in the last 1/3rd of TPM that is rather slow and boring (I'm thinking the time they spend on Coruscant, and when they return to Naboo and are hanging out with the Gungans). Not much tension. Child Anakin was miscast. It's strange seeing him say "are you an angel?" to a woman and him singlehandedly blowing up the mothership wasn't very convincing. It also gets weird in the later movies where he is made out to be a peer of Obi-Wan, and then you have his romance with Padme (she was pining for a little boy?). If the actor was a teenager I probably would have been fine with it.
The 2nd movie sets up a subplot about Master Sifo-Dyas (or however he is spelled) but the 3rd movie never really pays off on it. IIRC according to the Secret History of Star Wars book about how the scripts evolved over time, that subplot got dropped pretty quickly. It's a minor point, though.
In the 2nd movie, I wasn't really convinced that Anakin and Padme actually loved each other. They seemed to have yet another Hollywood movie whirlwind romance where they become infatuated with each other over a few days, and that's supposed to be "love".
The OT has tighter pacing, but has a reduced cast and setting, I wasn't as enamored with the relatively mundane planets and the aesthetic of blocky spaceships with paint chipping off. Still great, though.
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Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Ironically, in the novelization Windu realized he couldn't overwhelm Sidious. He could only hold out thanks to Vaapad, and even then, it was a stalemate. Windu only managed to gain an advantage after the window was broken, as Sidious was forced to split his concentration between his bladework and avoiding getting sucked out the window.
Exar Kun's lightsabre was double-bladed but not a saber-staff; it was explicitly described as being a standard length lightsabre hilt with a second emitter added to the bottom.