You really need to read the whole of the NJO before you make pronouncements about Hapes; they were much more involved than that.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
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Skallagrim
Well-known member
Actually reading the EU books (or making sure you remember them half-way correctly) before having very pointed opinions about them is good advice. In the case of the X-Wing books, it might reveal that they actually cover a decent amount of politics in the background, as well as actually showing us how the Rebels establish a functioning government and re-take key parts of the galaxy. In the case of the NJO books, even though opinions on those are divided, they do show an impressive overall arc-- and when they reach their high points, they're just great.
After all, Traitor is not only the most intelligent SW novel when it comes to the nature of the Force (perfectly handling the subject matter that KotOR II also went into with less skill, and which TLJ utterly failed to even approach), but also has one of the most epic last stands in the whole setting. If you go out in such a bad-ass fashion that the enemy's descendants will come to regard you as a mythological hero and the Guardian who stands before the Gate to the Lands of the Dead...
...that means you did something right.
After all, Traitor is not only the most intelligent SW novel when it comes to the nature of the Force (perfectly handling the subject matter that KotOR II also went into with less skill, and which TLJ utterly failed to even approach), but also has one of the most epic last stands in the whole setting. If you go out in such a bad-ass fashion that the enemy's descendants will come to regard you as a mythological hero and the Guardian who stands before the Gate to the Lands of the Dead...
...that means you did something right.
DarthOne
☦️
It did a hell of a lot more then that!
The planet looks NOTHING like it does in the books.
The night-sisters are treated like the only clan on the planet. When in legends they very much aren’t.
The people of Dathomire are supposed to be human. TCW made them all either Ratatatki or Zabracks.
Also, NO ONE is shown riding rancors into battle! Come on, how could you not show something that cool!?
There’s probably other stuff I’m forgetting as well.
Well, everything with Zsinj, who isn't anywhere in Disney canon from what I can tell. Which sucks, cause Mario's Imperial cousin was hilariously awesome in his stitck and strategic accumen; he died due to what amounts to bad luck of Han stubling on the planet, and his bridge particle shields not coming up during the battle in orbit.
Also, Zabrak's and human's could interbreed, just like humans and Twi'leks, so I can buy them being part of the population.
Lack of the Chu'unthor's wreck, and it's connection to the planet/witches, is also really suspect.
I'm just guessing Disney wanted to jettison everything from Dathomir that wasn't part of Clone Wars era canon.
Mother Talzen was Maul's mother, IIRC, and Palp's basically kidnapped him from her as a baby.
It's a shame really, Dathomir and Hapes provide plenty of 'girl-power' to Legends, and would have probably been loved by a lot of female fans.
In Hapes you have a pirate queendom thousands of years old that no one has been able to conquer, even Palps. He only send a few expeditions in as punishment details for the officers involved, because they were always too small to even get beyond the Mists.
Space-Romania/Transylvanian with Amazon rainforest vibes and goth chicks with lazer-bows and/or Amazon princesses in leather who ride rancors made Dathomir even better after the Clone Wars went there.
I think Jedi Fallen Order did the planet justice, even if not much since the Clone Wars has.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
That's why it had to go. Modern wokism is highly reliant on erasing any minority accomplishments or girl power from previous works so that they can claim their "special" character is taking a bold new step without actually doing anything new that would require effort.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Not to mention any show of femininity is still seen as following 'traditional gender roles' and thus 'encourages' sexism. The fact that Hapan women still take the time and effort to look after their appearance (and are explicitly described as always very beautiful) automatically disqualifies them from being 'woke' in the eyes of the woke crowd, regardless of the fact that Hapan men would automatically shoot themselves at a command to do so from their women.
If I recall the backstory correctly, Hapan women are exceptionally beautiful because Hapes was settled by the Lorell Raider pirates, who selectively kidnapped beautiful women and took them back to Hapes to rape and force to bear children. After the raiders were defeated by Jedi intervention, the surviving victims remained in Hapes but founded a matriarchical society, vowing that men would never hold power over them ever again.
It's...a really awkward backstory to work around, just like the whole "Han kidnapped Leia to force her to break the marriage engagement she freely chose to enter into" storyline is really, "Wait, WHAT?".
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Only for the oversensitive. Former sex slaves rising up to become the ruling class of their new nation, if that doesn't scream women empowerment, I don't know what does.
Good point about the Han and Leia angle, though.
Former sex slaves being liberated with the help of the Jedi is definitely empowering. Going on to create a society along the lines of man-hating radical feminist ideals, not so much.
And, well, the entire existence of the Gun of Command that Han stole and used on Leia implies some even worse things about how exactly Hapan society works.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
*rolls eyes*
And it's no secret Jedi can influence minds with a wave of a hand, aside from Hutts, Toydarians, and the like. If magical mind control is nothing to get worked up about, why would technological mind control be an issue?
I don't agree that it's nothing to get worked up about, especially with how utterly cavalier the Jedi demonstrate themselves to be about using it.
An *entire society* built around hating, disenfranchising, and excluding men that *just happens* to have developed mind control technology despite being overall substantially less advanced than the galaxy at large says they poured a massively disproportionate amount of resources into creating that technology, for Reasons Not Talked About.
(Consider that the Gun of Command is canonically used by the Hapans to force men to kill themselves as an insanely sadistic form of judicial execution, and that moreover, the Hapan justice system explicitly exempts women from the death penalty while doing THAT to men.)
So just watched the first episode of the new Mando season and it is all rather...meh, with a couple notable exceptions.
It feels like a rehash, a few plot points are stupid and frankly don't make sense/line up with in-show canon, and the whole thing drags.
Also, the Children of the Watch are a really stupid Mando faction, and make Deathwatch look a million time more professional and adaptable. Frankly the Children of the Watch give me FLDS vibes, not Mando vibes.
The coolest bit actually happens in hyperspace, not in any of the action sequences.
It feels like a rehash, a few plot points are stupid and frankly don't make sense/line up with in-show canon, and the whole thing drags.
Also, the Children of the Watch are a really stupid Mando faction, and make Deathwatch look a million time more professional and adaptable. Frankly the Children of the Watch give me FLDS vibes, not Mando vibes.
The coolest bit actually happens in hyperspace, not in any of the action sequences.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Given his treatment of the Mandalorians overall, Dave Filoni strikes me as having a very confused understanding of warrior ethos and warrior culture.
I'm pretty much done with the series after the last season. I was really hoping they'd let Mando off the chain WITHOUT 'Jedi-shorty-companion-Charles-in-Charge' vibes. However, Disney is unwilling to be adventurous.
I think Mando is still mostly a vehicle to help spin off/cross with other series, and the stuff in this last episode, along with what happened at the end of Rebels, leads me to think Mando is actual a stealth Heir to the Empire-adaptation mixed with toy marketing scheme.
I would vastly prefer the people behind Andor, and it's brand of story telling.
When you let the people behind HBO's Chernobyl work on Star Wars and treat the saga with the same seriousness they treated the real catastrophe they covered, it produces something magical, no Force needed.
Edit: No coincidental I think that the same day this came out, Bad Batch showed us more of the Mount Tantiss facility, and officially named it.
See, I'm of the camp that thinks that without the Force, there is no Star Wars. I really don't get the obsession with Force-less Star Wars. Force-less Star Wars is just a two-bit Space Opera with crappy worldbuilding. The Force is fundamental to what makes Star Wars Star Wars and without it the entire setting just feels hollow to me.
And yet Andor didn't need a single Force or lightsaber use to tell a hugely compelling and dramatic story in the Star Wars universe.
I'd prefer the more mature feel of Andor to the infantilization of the audeince that it has felt like most other Star wars properties pursue these day.
I prefer Space Chernobyl to Space Opera. The Star Wars franchise and universe is strong enough and vast enough not every story in the setting needs the magical shit to be interesting or compelling.
I think 'The Force' and Jedi/Sith being a core component of Star Wars and its setting is reasonable. But it doesn't mean you can't tell a good story without that being a thick focus of it. Especially with how settled and expansive the lore actually is.
It's like saying you can't tell a Marvel story without proper "Superheroes." Yes... you can. It might not be something you'd want to launch a billion dollars worth of movies on but you can probably tell a story without any capes flying about for television or whatever.
But the whole Force dynamics is a central component of the setting and can't really be ignored so to speak. It'll always be in the background because its integral to the setting.
It's like saying you can't tell a Marvel story without proper "Superheroes." Yes... you can. It might not be something you'd want to launch a billion dollars worth of movies on but you can probably tell a story without any capes flying about for television or whatever.
But the whole Force dynamics is a central component of the setting and can't really be ignored so to speak. It'll always be in the background because its integral to the setting.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Honestly is it sort of bad I think they probably should do either a movie or better yet a show focused on the fleet/starfighter corps side of things for either the rebellion or the early new republic.