Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[Lord Sovereign]

The really cruddy part of that is that this seems to be because they were trying to appeal to the Rey/Kylo 'shippers who seem to make up so much of the leftist audience they seem to want.

Come to think of it, in the Original Trilogy, was Vader even all that 'evil?' He always struck me as brutal and ruthless instead of evil, willing to do whatever it took to enforce Imperial order. If you include expanded universe stuff, oh yes he could be a bastard, but going purely off what we see in the Original Trilogy, Darth Vader is a far more reasonable person than Kylo Ren.

 

[Captain X]

I think he did enough in terms of how he killed so frequently and the reasoning for it (for example, he killed Captain Neda for something that wasn't really his fault), not to mention torturing Han. And if you count the PT, there's the whole slaughtering of children thing.

Speaking of, I might have to do a thread on how I would have done the PT, too.

 

[BlackDragon98]

John Boyega as the Sith Warrior, Daisy Ridley as Yvette.

Sith storyline, now that would be interesting.

I nominate Samuel L. Jackson to be Overseer Tremel.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Come to think of it, in the Original Trilogy, was Vader even all that 'evil?' He always struck me as brutal and ruthless instead of evil, willing to do whatever it took to enforce Imperial order. If you include expanded universe stuff, oh yes he could be a bastard, but going purely off what we see in the Original Trilogy, Darth Vader is a far more reasonable person than Kylo Ren.

I always saw Vader as being more or less like a Wehrmacht officer on the Eastern Front. He is brutal and ruthless, but it doesn't bring him any joy when he kills and murders. It's just his job.

Kylo Ren on the other hand, seemed more like an SS officer to me, the young fanatical kind that saw everyone who didn't toe the Nazi line as "traitors".

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Because this is not The Expanse. This is Star Wars, and Star Wars is basically sword-and-planet space fantasy. It's not hard sci-fi. Not remotely.

The ancestry of SW, at its core, looks like this:

John Carter > Flash Gordon > Star Wars

It's that simple.

Why is this so hard to comprehend? I've never really understood the SW fan who wants Andromeda style light second TL bolts and petatons and aerial combat that reaches 25.c

If you want that go watch more traditional science fiction, not Yojimbo meets King Arthur meets Hercules in space.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Why is this so hard to comprehend? I've never really understood the SW fan who wants Andromeda style light second TL bolts and petatons and aerial combat that reaches 25.c

If you want that go watch more traditional science fiction, not Yojimbo meets King Arthur meets Hercules in space.

I reckon SW warfare was like that once, but armour and shielding caught up. In Empire Strikes Back we see an Imperial Star Destroyer take a large meteorite directly to the bridge. That the superstructure doesn't just disintegrate puts Star Wars shielding and building material at another level. That a single shot from its main battery can outright vapourise a similarly sized asteroid, isn't exactly unimpressive.

In that respect, Star Wars's way of war makes more sense than I think some realise. There's just some holes that need filling in from time (for example, capital ship weaponry isn't there to just look pretty).

 

[Skallagrim]

Speaking of, I might have to do a thread on how I would have done the PT, too.

DEWIT

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I reckon SW warfare was like that once, but armour and shielding caught up. In Empire Strikes Back we see an Imperial Star Destroyer take a large meteorite directly to the bridge. That the superstructure doesn't just disintegrate puts Star Wars shielding and building material at another level. That a single shot from its main battery can outright vapourise a similarly sized asteroid, isn't exactly unimpressive.

In that respect, Star Wars's way of war makes more sense than I think some realise. There's just some holes that need filling in from time (for example, capital ship weaponry isn't there to just look pretty).

I think that might have more to do with their AG tech than their material sciences though coruscant is a great example of what they can do when they decide to build quality shit.

Their AG tech being ahead of everything else they do besides their metallurgy also explains why turbo lasers exist at all. They're basically a Cannonade of Romulan style plasma torpedoes that load as shells.

Shits fucking ludicrous but par for the course for pulp era sci fi

 

[Zachowon]

Oscar Issac either as the Bounty Hunter or Smuggler. He needs a co star

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Hmm, I wanted to say that Sith Inquisitor would be a better idea, but then I realized it might be taken as stereotyping.
But in my opinion, the Sith Warrior has to be a trueblooded Sith, if only for the optimistic message that even the worst cultures can spawn someone who looks at his own and say "This is wrong."

Speaking of the Sith Inquisitor...

...think about it. A former slave, strong in the Force, who rises to become one of the mightiest Dark Lords of the Sith of their age (explicitly so, according to Darth Marr and Darth Decimus), and who also has a fallen Togruta Jedi as his first apprentice.

They're basically Darth Vader if he was a Sith from the very beginning.

I think he did enough in terms of how he killed so frequently and the reasoning for it (for example, he killed Captain Neda for something that wasn't really his fault), not to mention torturing Han. And if you count the PT, there's the whole slaughtering of children thing.

Speaking of, I might have to do a thread on how I would have done the PT, too.

So what? The Jedi did the same thing after the Great Hyperspace War. Hell, they planned to do it again during the Galactic Cold War, considering they sanctioned Revan's creation of the Infinite Army to exterminate 98% of the Sith Empire's population. Sure, they'll mourn for the hundreds of billions who'll die, but for the sake of 'peace', it's an acceptable price to pay.

Long story short, it's just karma for the Order's millennia-long dogmatism and close-mindedness. In a way, the Sith are just what the Jedi made them.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Speaking of the Sith Inquisitor...

...think about it. A former slave, strong in the Force, who rises to become one of the mightiest Dark Lords of the Sith of their age (explicitly so, according to Darth Marr and Darth Decimus), and who also has a fallen Togruta Jedi as his first apprentice.

They're basically Darth Vader if he was a Sith from the very beginning.

I always did a female lightside sith sorceress. She could flatten people easily but always preferred negotiation to combat She essentially was palpatine with obi-wan's personality, and it was always hilarious to watch Jedi BSOD as they tried to comprehend a sith lord going for the more peaceful long term practical solution as opposed to "KILL!!!! TORTURE!!!! ZAP!!!! POWWWER UNLIMITED POWWWWER!!!" Plus Darth Imperious is a MUCH more awsome sounding name to Darth Nox.

it is weird watching the sith admit (admittedly indirectly) that you could get the same exact power from the lightside that you get from the darkside and be better off in the long run.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Oscar Issac either as the Bounty Hunter or Smuggler. He needs a co star

If you've ever seen Robin Hood or X-men Apocalypse...you'd want him as a Sith.

Isaac excels at playing viciously over the top, vain, wild lunatics and he would have been perfect as a Sith.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

If you've ever seen Robin Hood or X-men Apocalypse...you'd want him as a Sith.

Isaac excels at playing viciously over the top, vain, wild lunatics and he would have been perfect as a Sith.

it'd have been nice for him to be a knight of ren, but then that would mean giving those guys actual charecter and not just making them glorified stunt doubles.

 

[Zachowon]

If you've ever seen Robin Hood or X-men Apocalypse...you'd want him as a Sith.

Isaac excels at playing viciously over the top, vain, wild lunatics and he would have been perfect as a Sith.

He would make a great Bounty hunter who cares less for the money and more for the power the sith could give him

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

it'd have been nice for him to be a knight of ren, but then that would mean giving those guys actual charecter and not just making them glorified stunt doubles.

Or y'know Ben Solo himself?

Adam Driver was mistcast

 

[Zachowon]

Or y'know Ben Solo himself?

Adam Driver was mistcast

He was miscast, but was damn good at his job.

Him and Oscar were two of the best if the new cast, and Boyega was pretty good

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

it is weird watching the sith admit (admittedly indirectly) that you could get the same exact power from the lightside that you get from the darkside and be better off in the long run.

Which, to be fair, is implied to actually be how the Force is supposed to be used in the EU. Or rather, that's what it means by balancing the Force. Not by dedicating yourself to the Light or falling to the Dark, but acting in harmony with both. Ultimately, Jedi and Sith are both as wrong as each other.

SWTOR's Light Side Sith are probably the closest to the original Je'daii as they once were (Dark Side Jedi, in contrast, are just plain fallen).

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

So what? The Jedi did the same thing after the Great Hyperspace War. Hell, they planned to do it again during the Galactic Cold War, considering they sanctioned Revan's creation of the Infinite Army to exterminate 98% of the Sith Empire's population. Sure, they'll mourn for the hundreds of billions who'll die, but for the sake of 'peace', it's an acceptable price to pay.

Long story short, it's just karma for the Order's millennia-long dogmatism and close-mindedness. In a way, the Sith are just what the Jedi made them.

The Sith Holocaust really did leave a permanent shadow over the Sith psyche. The Sith before the Great Hyperspace War were a fairly normal civilization by Earth standards, not counting the weird space magic.

Granted, they were an expansionist state led by a hereditary aristocracy that practiced slavery, which is not good, but they were hardly Nazis. There was even a pretty large faction that favored peace with the Republic. If the Republic had put Ludo Kressh's followers in charge instead of killing everyone then they probably could have had a stable if not friendly trading partner.

It's only later that the Sith started to go so crazy. Lunatics like Vitiate, Ruin, and Sidious never would have been allowed to take power if not for the atrocities of the Jedi.

 

[Zachowon]

People give shit to SWTOR but it is the closest we get to a good RPG for star wars that is TOR and not focused in a single story

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

The Sith Holocaust really did leave a permanent shadow over the Sith psyche. The Sith before the Great Hyperspace War were a fairly normal civilization by Earth standards, not counting the weird space magic.

Preempting any idiots who claimed the Sith were 'clearly' evil because a) they practiced ritual sacrifices to their gods prior to the arrival of the Jen'jidai, and b) had a rigid caste society...

...a) claiming ritual sacrifice is objectively 'evil' is purely a case of cultural relativism, and which IRL was used as a justification for both cultural and actual genocide of the Mesoamerican peoples by the Spaniards and the Catholic Church. And if b) makes the Sith evil, that also makes the Indians who also have a rigid caste society 'evil', therefore we should lob nukes at Delhi and other cities before sending in the marines to 'civilize' them.

And speaking of the Jen'jidai, i.e. the surviving exiled Dark Jedi of the Hundred Year Darkness, it should be noted that while they were clearly no longer completely sane by the end of the war, at the start of the way they were just Jedi who just wanted to explore new avenues of the Force. Specifically, alchemy, only for the High Council to tell to stop. That in itself isn't bad, but what's bad is when the Jedi Alchemists left and decided to continue their studies on their own, the other Jedi followed and started killing them. In short, obey or die. Funny...I thought only Sith dealt in absolutes.

It was also the same with Xendor during the First Great Schism. They only wanted to study other avenues of the Force, and never actually started preparing for war until the Jedi Order did so first to end the schism by force. So much for keepers of the peace, eh?

Granted, they were an expansionist state led by a hereditary aristocracy that practiced slavery, which is not good, but they were hardly Nazis.

In other words, just about every pre-modern major power in RL history.

It's only later that the Sith started to go so crazy. Lunatics like Vitiate, Ruin, and Sidious never would have been allowed to take power if not for the atrocities of the Jedi.

And even in Vitiate's Empire, there were people open to coexistence with the Republic and the Jedi, such as Darth Marr. Though admittedly by then the lingering shadow of the Sith Holocaust, plus the Jedi and the Republic still clearly wanting to exterminate the Sith - again, the Infinite Army was fully sanctioned by both the High Council and the Supreme Chancellor* - means it's unlikely it could have lasted long. The Sith Empire's very existence was anathema to both.

*That's Twi'lek bitch from Taris, Saris or whatever her name was. Executing her in one of the expansions was without a doubt one of the best moments of the game.