Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Can't recall reading the Crystal Star but that sounds startlingly like the Great Heep.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
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KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
fair, also I might have to withdraw my argument, high republic is not off to a great first impression.
At least the Great Heep is somewhat relevant to the EU universe as a whole, as he is the last survivor of his kind, the Abominors.
They are the droids that nearly destroyed the Yuuzhan Vong and also the reason why the Vong hate non-organic technology with an extreme passion.
It's only the TV shows that are somewhat promising.
The entire sequel trilogy was a massive dumpster fire that repeated tried to undo the mistakes of every previous film, expect by doing so it only makes it worse.
It's like when someone playing the violin screws up a little bit and then starts over again, only to screw up twice because they're so nervous and then starts over again, only to screw up even more. (In case your wondering, I play the violin and I was part of a rehearsal where this kind of thing happened.)
Compared to the Sequel trilogy, the TV shows are somewhat watchable, but once you compare it with the Dark Horse comics. . .
They quickly starts showing their faults.
The Dark Horse comics were some of the best EU material ever made, especially Star Wars The Old Republic (Zayne Carrick arc) and Star Wars Legacy (the Ania Solo arc was better than the Cade Skywalker are because Cade was a little too edgy and angsty sometimes)
Their standalone comics were just masterpieces; Darth Vader and the Cry of Shadows, Darth Vader and the Lost Command, Jango Fett Open Season, etc.
I watched some reviews of the High Republic by the YellowFlash, Critical Drinker, and Star Wars Girl on Utube.
Their opinions were all basically the same, despite being 3 radically different channels.
I think the only thing Disney Star Wars has successfully accomplished is getting the fanbase to hate them.
And, the TV shows seem to be what Disney is focusing on.
They have happened to have 2 damn amazing games, one a spiritual successor to one of the biggest sims form Star wars, the other a damn good game.
There have been a few bad comics, but I have found the new Darth Vader series superior to any of the Legends Darth Vader comics. The main series, could be better, but better then a good amount of the comics from legends. I wish we had more OR or CW era struff in comics, but eventually. Bounty Hunter is a pretty damn good mini series so far, showing just how good and varied it is.
There were a few Lgends comics Ifound to be better, but nothing compares to the Darth Vader comics for the vast majority of legends one that I have read...
And I have read a lot
I would again disagree that Fallen Order is good, let alone amazing. the fact that it is mechanically functional doesn't make up for its fundamentally flawed story.
It is a better game then Force unleashed in my opinion.
And actually showed how badass Vader is in lore. Instead dof kicking his ass
Absolutely agree with that -- Fallen Order lined up perfectly with Rebels in portraying Vader as *very nearly* Death Incarnate, where the absolute best efforts of badass normals and lesser Force users can *at best* hope to slow him down and escape.
This is precisely as it should be; what Force Unleashed presented was a downright comical level of protagonist wank.
Exactly! We have always been told Vader is this big bad, and in TFU we kick his ass. In FO we...we get our asses kicked pretty badly.
I enjoy how DIsney has made Vader the badass he has always been
There are exactly three Force users in all of canon who are capable of plausibly going straight lightsaber-to-lightsaber with Vader without being almost instantly annihilated: Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Ahsoka Tano.
Literally anyone else purporting to do so is bullshit. Even the Temple Blademaster, Cin Drallig, wasn't skilled enough to survive against Vader in a straight up duel. Mace Windu probably thinks he can, but he's deluding himself (as he always has in all matters regarding Anakin).
Luke Skywalker doesn't count, because Vader knew who he was and consciously spared him.
Literally anyone else purporting to do so is bullshit. Even the Temple Blademaster, Cin Drallig, wasn't skilled enough to survive against Vader in a straight up duel. Mace Windu probably thinks he can, but he's deluding himself (as he always has in all matters regarding Anakin).
Luke Skywalker doesn't count, because Vader knew who he was and consciously spared him.
Agreed. I hated how OP Starkiller was. It was fun, but it ruined any chance of him ya know, being Canon as well. Legends never seemed to show how damn good Vader was, always having someone better then him in some way. I do not remember him being such a force of nature he is in Disney in legends
There were certainly Jedi who were more skilled than Anakin/Vader in many ways; he really never had the patience to master more esoteric Force techniques, and little opportunity to do so given his junior rank and the war.
But very, very few Jedi, even much more senior ones, were even remotely on his level when it came to being on the field of battle. There's a *reason* he and Obi-Wan pulled victory out of impossible situations time and time and time again, and it wasn't luck.
Edit: As to Starkiller, I agree entirely. His lethality against *non Force users* is entirely plausible, especially considering that it's largely game engine limitations that made prior Force users so limited compared to Starkiller in terms of tearing through a battlefield as fast as he can move. But Vader would shut him down with ease.
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Force Unleashed is far better. Mechanically speaking, they're both perfectly functional derivatives of whatever the big contemporary trend in gaming is, they have a few little twists on the formula but nothing earth shattering....and some of those little twists don't quite work out in practice. IE, Fallen Order's system of "attack enemies to regenerate your force meter" is not what I'd call thematically appropriate given the whole "A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never attack" thing (though to it's credit, the combat system works best when you focus on parrying and deflecting rather than pure offense).
But you need more than a functional set of mechanics to be great, particularly in a game like Fallen Order that's trying so hard to tell a story. You need a good story, and Fallen Order does not have one, as I've complained about at length (here and here).
Fallen Order's narrative is undermined by one massive, irredeemable sin, which is cowardice. Fallen Order goes out of it's way to have a narrative that not only maintains the status quo, but doesn't even affect it, making sure the player has no chance to do anything that might have an impact on the setting at large, something Force Unleashed was daring enough to do. The Force Unleashed had the player help forge the fledging Rebel Alliance. Fallen Order has you meet Forest Whitaker for a few minutes.
As for Vader, Vader was already a badass, he was established as one in a little known star wars work called A New Hope, and it's sequels. The only thing Fallen Order does is add an entirely gratuitous bit where Cal figuratively crushes his scouter while yelling about how high Vader's power level was, something that Disney consistently chooses to do because it's easy fan pandering that doesn't get them any flak. Remember this scene from the comics, where he faces down a whole army of rebels by himself, and wins?
That is nothing but utterly shameless power wanking. We saw what happens when a small army of Jedi try to take on this many enemies at once in ATOC, and they didn't just lose, they were nearly annihilated, with only 1 in 10 of them making it out of that arena alive. And now we're supposed to believe Vader can just casually take out a way better force all by himself? Where was all of this incredible power during the clone wars and the actual films, when he was a regularly taking on armies and needed backup from his own, better army to actually win?
Meahcnically..eh. The lightsaber felt a lot better in Fallen Order to me then TFU. I wish there was dismemberment, but I still think the lightsaber worked a lot and felt better in FO.Force Unleashed is far better. Mechanically speaking, they're both perfectly functional derivatives of whatever the big contemporary trend in gaming is, they have a few little twists on the formula but nothing earth shattering....and some of those little twists don't quite work out in practice. IE, Fallen Order's system of "attack enemies to regenerate your force meter" is not what I'd call thematically appropriate given the whole "A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never attack" thing (though to it's credit, the combat system works best when you focus on parrying and deflecting rather than pure offense).
But you need more than a functional set of mechanics to be great, particularly in a game like Fallen Order that's trying so hard to tell a story. You need a good story, and Fallen Order does not have one, as I've complained about at length (here and here).
Fallen Order's narrative is undermined by one massive, irredeemable sin, which is cowardice. Fallen Order goes out of it's way to have a narrative that not only maintains the status quo, but doesn't even affect it, making sure the player has no chance to do anything that might have an impact on the setting at large, something Force Unleashed was daring enough to do. The Force Unleashed had the player help forge the fledging Rebel Alliance. Fallen Order has you meet Forest Whitaker for a few minutes.
As for Vader, Vader was already a badass, he was established as one in a little known star wars work called A New Hope, and it's sequels. The only thing Fallen Order does is add an entirely gratuitous bit where Cal figuratively crushes his scouter while yelling about how high Vader's power level was, something that Disney consistently chooses to do because it's easy fan pandering that doesn't get them any flak. Remember this scene from the comics, where he faces down a whole army of rebels by himself, and wins?
That is nothing but utterly shameless power wanking. We saw what happens when a small army of Jedi try to take on this many enemies at once in ATOC, and they didn't just lose, they were nearly annihilated, with only 1 in 10 of them making it out of that arena alive. And now we're supposed to believe Vader can just casually take out a way better force all by himself? Where was all of this incredible power during the clone wars and the actual films, when he was a regularly taking on armies and needed backup from his own, better army to actually win?
There are some things I like about TFU that I wish FO had, but it isn'tenough to make it a better game.
As for Vader.
You mean how we just see Vader stroll through and then strike Obi Wan down and shoot at people?
That is all he did in A New Hope.
Disney decided to one up it by basically making a whole bunch of comics showing how badass heis.
and, Vader did not have the darkside as anakin, and causing a sandstorm like he did there is not as effective against Droids,We also know he now knows Force Shield, and bsaically makes a forceshield they cant do shit to him when having it up.
At the Battle of Galidraan (EU), Jango Fett killed 5 Jedi with his bare hands.
The Jedi strike team and the Judicial forces under their command managed to kill all 300 True Mandalorians with the except of Jango.
But over half the Jedi involved were killed and over 90% of the Judicials were wiped out.
Jedi are not omnipotent infallible beings.
They can be killed by non-Force users with the right training, tactics, and equipment.
Just ask the Yuuzhan Vong.
The quest isn't if the lightsaber was better in FO or TFU, it's if the lightsaber felt better than the longsword from dark souls, or if the FU lightsaber felt better than the chains of edgyness from God of War. You have to compare like to like, and the two games are not the same genre and obviously won't compare well to one another.
This is exactly the problem with the new stuff. Darth Vader isn't a badass because he just kills loads of people, anyone can just be a one dimensional murder machine. He's great because of everything else about him, his attitude, how he talks, how he acts around others, how other people react to him. Kylo Ren is not a badass, no matter how many people kills, because at the end of the day he is, as SNL put it, "a punk bitch that looks like he weighs 30 pounds soaking wet underneath that little black dress."
And the fact that Disney keeps pushing this view of him hurts the series as a whole. Remember, at the end of the day, Darth Vader turned on the emperor and renounced the dark side, to save the life of his son. Characters in the film it are not sold on Luke's notion that no, there is still good left in Vader, that he can be saved, and based on his actions in the films the audience is probably not siding with Luke either. The Disney EU is actively making that worse. Every comic and story and appearance that paints Vader as a ruthless murder machine with no regard for anyone else makes his final decision to give up everything for the sake of his son less and less believable.
I don't care about their invented justifications for having him run around as an invincible killing machine, the films say otherwise.
Ok, now in fairness that's also power wanking, just for Mandos instead of Vader.
The films don't show otherwise...|
*coughrougeonecough*
Ah, so the Mandos I love, which are wanked beyond beilif
Have you ever read "Darth Vader and the Cry of Shadows"?