Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Tarkin and Vader respected each other. Tarkin had precedent since the Emperor had appointed him commander of the Death Star, but there was no resentment there. If anything, they seemed to have an almost friendly banter between them, as showed by Vader practically going 'I told you so' about Leia never ever willingly talking about the rebels, not to mention Tarkin practically signing off on Vader deciding to deal with Obi-Wan personally. That, and the gamble to locate the Yavin 4 base. Yes, I know Tarkin wasn't happy about that gamble, but the simple fact he not only considered it but actually agreed to it shows how far he was willing to go with Vader.

The Stormtrooper Corps was also loyal to Vader, whether the rank and file or the officer corps. It was the regular officer corps which had a rocky relationship with Vader, but again, that wasn't universal. The Inquisitors and other Dark Side adepts would also default to Vader if he can counter Sidious' resurrection backups. Overthrowing and replacing one's master is the standard succession protocol for Darksiders, after all.

Personally, I think Vader could have formed a troika with Tarkin and either Thrawn or one of the other Grand Admirals. The Empire would still fracture, and I suspect the rebels would opportunistically proclaim a New Republic, but if said troika acts quickly enough and consolidates their position, they could cement control over the Core before turning on the warlords and the rebels alike.

 

[evilchumlee]

Tarkin and Vader respected each other. Tarkin had precedent since the Emperor had appointed him commander of the Death Star, but there was no resentment there. If anything, they seemed to have an almost friendly banter between them, as showed by Vader practically going 'I told you so' about Leia never ever willingly talking about the rebels, not to mention Tarkin practically signing off on Vader deciding to deal with Obi-Wan personally. That, and the gamble to locate the Yavin 4 base. Yes, I know Tarkin wasn't happy about that gamble, but the simple fact he not only considered it but actually agreed to it shows how far he was willing to go with Vader.

Yeah. I also always got the vibe that Tarkin was similar to a Thrawn in being loyal to the Empire not necessarily the Emperor.

If Vader assumed the role, and assuming Tarkin recognized the legitimacy of it, I could still see Tarkin still being loyal.

The Stormtrooper Corps was also loyal to Vader, whether the rank and file or the officer corps. It was the regular officer corps which had a rocky relationship with Vader, but again, that wasn't universal. The Inquisitors and other Dark Side adepts would also default to Vader if he can counter Sidious' resurrection backups. Overthrowing and replacing one's master is the standard succession protocol for Darksiders, after all.

This one is a mixed bag.

Yes, the Stormtroopers were all about Vader and that's a huge asset.

The Inquisitors? Not so sure on that... they all tend to be fairly conniving in their own right and I think any of them are particularly loyal to Vader (or each other).

Other Dark Side adepts? Most of them that actually exist outright dislike Vader, and he them. Going to the Vader comic and what happened just after the destruction of the Death Star, Palpatine was actively recruiting for a new apprentice. Vader massacred all of them, but still.

Personally, I think Vader could have formed a troika with Tarkin and either Thrawn or one of the other Grand Admirals. The Empire would still fracture, and I suspect the rebels would opportunistically proclaim a New Republic, but if said troika acts quickly enough and consolidates their position, they could cement control over the Core before turning on the warlords and the rebels alike.

Possibly, although there could be much more of a fracturing. Tagge seems to have very little respect for Vader, and he's the head of the Navy... if Tagge doesn't recognize Vader's legitimacy, that could prove disasterous.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Yeah. I also always got the vibe that Tarkin was similar to a Thrawn in being loyal to the Empire not necessarily the Emperor.

If Vader assumed the role, and assuming Tarkin recognized the legitimacy of it, I could still see Tarkin still being loyal.

I think there's a fairly good chance of that. Both shared similar opinions on how the galaxy should be run, and what the Empire should be like. The big difference is that Vader despised politics and avoided playing the game as much as he could, while Tarkin, despite a similar distaste for parliamentary and aristocratic chicanery, recognized the need to play it and well.

This one is a mixed bag.

Yes, the Stormtroopers were all about Vader and that's a huge asset.

The Inquisitors? Not so sure on that... they all tend to be fairly conniving in their own right and I think any of them are particularly loyal to Vader (or each other).

Other Dark Side adepts? Most of them that actually exist outright dislike Vader, and he them. Going to the Vader comic and what happened just after the destruction of the Death Star, Palpatine was actively recruiting for a new apprentice. Vader massacred all of them, but still.

Fair, I suppose. It's actually even worse in Legends, as Vader deliberately shunned and was shunned in turn by the other Dark Side adepts in the Emperor's service. It's likely any troika he forms will have to deal with these renegades running around, although on the plus side these will be as much a thorn in the rebels' side.

Possibly, although there could be much more of a fracturing. Tagge seems to have very little respect for Vader, and he's the head of the Navy... if Tagge doesn't recognize Vader's legitimacy, that could prove disasterous.

Depends on whether canon or Legends. In Legends, Tagge was army, and only commanded the defenses of the Death Star.

I'd say it depends on who forms the third member of their troika, and who else supports them. Among the other Grand Admirals, Osvald Teshik is a Clone War veteran, and he probably would support Tarkin and Vader. Ishin-il-Raz might join them, but he was always the politico among the Grand Admirals, all but having been promoted to appease COMPNOR, so Vader disliked him intensely. Not to mention he was personally loyal to Sidious, so he might also commit suicide much like in Legends canon.

Afsheen Makati, much like in Legends canon, would support anyone who controls Coruscant, so if the troika has the capital, they have him on their side. He also hated the Prophets of the Dark Side, so there's another plus in his favor, since like I said, Vader sneered at the other Darksiders in Sidious' employ. Peccati Syn, conversely, was a follower of the prophets, and would never join the troika if the prophets opposed it.

Danetta Pitta, though, is a madman, so it's likely he gets liquidated even if he supports the troika, although it's more likely he goes rogue. Josef Grunger is likely to make a power play of his own, and while Miltin Takel is much like Afsheen Makati, he was also an addict, so he'd either be liquidated or forced into retirement. Finally, we have Rufaan Tigellinus, who was both a skilled commander and an adroit player at court. Like Afsheen Makati, he'd support anyone who managed to gain control of Coruscant.

 

[Zyobot]

 

[Skallagrim]

Today, I learned that TCW Dooku is, in fact, real.

Even better is that it's actually a Turkish series, dubbed in Spanish here. Which means that it is therefore possible to create Turkish prequels to Turkish Star Wars featuring Turkish Dooku.




....But wait, there's more!

Not content with merely being Turkish TCW Dooku, this actor goes the extra mile. When he shaves off his beard, he becomes none other than Turkish Sam Elliott.

Proof:

 

[gral]

Jesus Christ

 

[Bacle]

 

[evilchumlee]

I think there's a fairly good chance of that. Both shared similar opinions on how the galaxy should be run, and what the Empire should be like. The big difference is that Vader despised politics and avoided playing the game as much as he could, while Tarkin, despite a similar distaste for parliamentary and aristocratic chicanery, recognized the need to play it and well.

A Tarkin / Vader dynamic duo could well. I still think it all rests on legitimacy, which i'm not actually sure Vader would have.

Vader may have thought he could seize power through force and... maybe that would work, but I don't think Vader has the standing in the eyes of the Empire at large to be the successor Emperor. He's high ranking in general but also in some very specific roles that have precisely dick all to do with governance. Vader is a glorified sledgehammer...

Now if Vader decided to seize power and Tarkin decided "Yeah, i'm ok with that"... I think you can get a situation where Vader is Emperor and Tarkin assumes Mas Amedda's role, leaving Vader free to mostly do Dark Side Shit like Palpatine and intervene personally where he sees fit... while otherwise leaving the day to day operations to Tarkin.

Oddly enough, in this situation, the Empire might be worse than it was under Palpatine.

Depends on whether canon or Legends. In Legends, Tagge was army, and only commanded the defenses of the Death Star.

That seems contradicted by ANH itself, "...maybe to your star fleet"

I'm looking at Wookiepedia as a refresher and I feel like Legends mixed up Tagge and Motti. Legends does have Motti as being the Navy and Tagge as Army but... the movie itself disagrees somewhat. Tagge has an... army star fleet? ANH seems to imply Motti is the Death Star guy and Tagge is the Navy guy.

Although looks like even in canon, Tagge is Army... but also has a fleet at his disposal...

I'd say it depends on who forms the third member of their troika, and who else supports them. Among the other Grand Admirals, Osvald Teshik is a Clone War veteran, and he probably would support Tarkin and Vader. Ishin-il-Raz might join them, but he was always the politico among the Grand Admirals, all but having been promoted to appease COMPNOR, so Vader disliked him intensely. Not to mention he was personally loyal to Sidious, so he might also commit suicide much like in Legends canon.

Afsheen Makati, much like in Legends canon, would support anyone who controls Coruscant, so if the troika has the capital, they have him on their side. He also hated the Prophets of the Dark Side, so there's another plus in his favor, since like I said, Vader sneered at the other Darksiders in Sidious' employ. Peccati Syn, conversely, was a follower of the prophets, and would never join the troika if the prophets opposed it.

Danetta Pitta, though, is a madman, so it's likely he gets liquidated even if he supports the troika, although it's more likely he goes rogue. Josef Grunger is likely to make a power play of his own, and while Miltin Takel is much like Afsheen Makati, he was also an addict, so he'd either be liquidated or forced into retirement. Finally, we have Rufaan Tigellinus, who was both a skilled commander and an adroit player at court. Like Afsheen Makati, he'd support anyone who managed to gain control of Coruscant.

I don't even know that we need a troika so much. OR if there is a troika, it's Vader/Tarkin/Amedda. Vader assumes the Emperor role, Tarkin assumes total command over the military, and Mas Amedda continues to run the civlian government. Keeping Amedda around would be a smart move. He's respected enough that (in canon) he maintains control over the Empire post-Palpatine and a good chunk of the Empire is... fine with it. He's not the most competent person ever at being the top dog in charge, but he's a good politician which is exactly what Vader and Tarkin need. He also has the institutional knowledge dating back to the Republic to keep things moving along.

Mas Amedda also just like... is a survivor and will absolutely boot lick whoever is in power. Republic, Empire, New Republic, he doesn't care. He's happy to serve whoever holds the reigns. Hell in canon he even manages to escape any and all punishment by the NR... and continues to live in the Imperial Palace/Ex-Jedi Temple well into the New Republic era.

 

[Bacle]

 

[Bigking321]

So they have learned nothing and star wars will continue to be bad. Great.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Filoni will turn SW into one huge Ahsoka show.

 

[evilchumlee]

Any change from the old leadership is a positive. I just hope that Filoni realizes he's much better at big picture direction rather than actually directly writing/directing individual projects.

 

[Husky_Khan]

That was some good scripting and voice acting actually.

 

[evilchumlee]

I was thinking about Star Wars and I realized a problem it's been having, aside from any woke type stuff. Star Wars either... tries too hard, or doesn't try at all.

Star Wars has always been a fairly simple hero's journey type story. It doesn't really NEED to be alot.

But then we have people either just straight up copying from Star Wars itself again, or going WAY too hard to try to make something deep and different.

All you really need to do is make a heroes journey, good vs evil story and toss in a few twists to make it interesting. I also think SW is a franchise that lends itself to fan service... they know what fans want to see. Just. Do that.

 

[Agent23]

To think: Zahn and Stackpole actually wrote the story of how he was recruited by Thrawn, and the publishers were like, "nah, we don't need that". (This was all pre-Disney, though.)

There are the new, poat-Disney Thrawn books that I assume tie in with the Clone wars, but those are awful compared to his earlier stuff.
Having read a decent amount of Zahn outside of his SW work I can say that he has had a few hit and miss works.

Like the one nocel series where the dead ancestors of some weirdo alien race spoke to them via radiowaves, but human usage caused said ancestors, whose souls iirc were kept in some dodad, immense pain, so an interstellar war started.

And one other book that had a black hole literally spewing crystal "angels" that made people nicer.

Stackpole?

I don't really remember what exactly I read that was by him, but his name makes me think of the NJO series, so, yeah, I don't think he was up there with Zahn.

 

[gral]

Stackpole?

I don't really remember what exactly I read that was by him, but his name makes me think of the NJO series, so, yeah, I don't think he was up there with Zahn.

Stackpole's first works were in the Battletech universe, weren't they?

 

[S'task]

I don't really remember what exactly I read that was by him, but his name makes me think of the NJO series, so, yeah, I don't think he was up there with Zahn.

. . . Rogue Squadron. He wrote Rogue Squadron and the companion X-Wing series. He also wrote I, Jedi. His only contribution to the NJO series was two early books, Dark Tide I and Dark Tide II.

Stackpole's first works were in the Battletech universe, weren't they?

I don't know about first works, but he was a major author in the BattleTech franchise, penning almost all the major novels that tied into the meta-storyline progression. He's the author that wrote the memorable "I give you the Capellan Confederation" wedding scene in the Warrior Trilogy that covered the 4th Secession War. Who introduced the Clans in the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy. Who fleshed out much of the grand side of the universe from viewpoints both high and low (he consistently used mix viewpoint writing, with multiple characters but handled it much better than many other authors, he would typically mix a high level viewpoints).

 

[Agent23]

. . . Rogue Squadron. He wrote Rogue Squadron and the companion X-Wing series. He also wrote I, Jedi.

Never read any of those.

His only contribution to the NJO series was two early books, Dark Tide I and Dark Tide II.

Yeah, and the whole NJO is pretty much crap.

 

[Bigking321]

Never read any of those.

They are really good and are generally considered as the very best of the EU alongside Zahns stuff. (Personal rankings may vary.)

Basically the adventures of a elite group of pilots and special forces as they go against the remnants of the Empire after Rotj, and a close personal look at someone learning to be a Jedi with all the philosophical issues and struggles that brings.

Really great stuff in my opinion and my recommendation to read right after the Thrawn trilogy.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Yeah, and the whole NJO is pretty much crap.

Before Disney, I'd have agreed with you. After Disney, it's practically Homeric epic in comparison.

FUCKING. HELL.