Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
You get some really weird effects due to the contradictory assumptions, yes. Any interpretation you go with will clash with some evidence. Personally, I typically just ignore anything that's too dumb to be believable, and consider some things to be artistic licence and treat is as an impression rather than an accurate respresentation of what's happening.

Certainly not a bad rule of thumb through I found "believable" depends on which set of contradictory assumptions one chooses to go with. To switch examples to one of the more glaring scaling issues of the Prequel era, the 1.2 million clonetroopers makes sense were most worlds seem to be barely more than a moderately large city and who flip with a solitary, pivotal battle of likely less than a 1000 combatants on each side. Yet doesn't make sense where they have to engage the Quintillion strong Droid army in intense and prolonged ground warfare across the depths of their besieged worlds.

This discrepancy even lead into different depictions of how the Clonetroopers fought with depictions ranging from highly skilled Commandos meant to pivotally tilt the balance of a battle or skirmish to the Republic's favor to a faceless horde who ground the Droid army down as much by their own numbers as their skill.

Each one is equally true and makes sense in their respective universe of assumptions.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Certainly not a bad rule of thumb through I found "believable" depends on which set of contradictory assumptions one chooses to go with. To switch examples to one of the more glaring scaling issues of the Prequel era, the 1.2 million clonetroopers makes sense were most worlds seem to be barely more than a moderately large city and who flip with a solitary, pivotal battle of likely less than a 1000 combatants on each side. Yet doesn't make sense where they have to engage the Quintillion strong Droid army in intense and prolonged ground warfare across the depths of their besieged worlds.

This discrepancy even lead into different depictions of how the Clonetroopers fought with depictions ranging from highly skilled Commandos meant to pivotally tilt the balance of a battle or skirmish to the Republic's favor to a faceless horde who ground the Droid army down as much by their own numbers as their skill.

Each one is equally true and makes sense in their respective universe of assumptions.
That's absolutely true. I'm not suggesting that my metric of what's credible is some objective standard-- and certainly not that other interpretations are wrong. I do think there's a "general ball-park estimate" of what was roughly intended that can be deduced from all the works in the setting, viewed as a whole. By that I mean: the actual films refer to "millions of systems" in the Republic, "thousands" seceding, and later "ten thousand" ready to join the CIS. And it can be argued that against millions, a few (tens of) thousands is already a huge discrepancy -- how is the CIS a meaningful threat, then? -- but it does at least indicate that the intention was not that SW only involves a thousand planets or so.

The underlying issue is that Lucas himself didn't give a damn about the numbers, he just wanted an engaging story. So the films have some weird contradictions, most of which can be treated as metaphorical figures of speech, or otherwise contextualised or interpreted as needed. But the follow-up problem is that many EU contributors indeed interpreted it... and in very divergent ways!

Unlike Lucas, I like consistency. When I come up with something, I figure stuff like this out. Imagining myself in his shoes, making SW-- I'd have a note-book listing how big the galaxy is, how many systems have habitable planets, how many of those are actually occupied, what the general population numbers tend to be like... And then I'd make sure that all future entries into the canon stick to that.

But that's just me.

So I have an idea about those things, as pertaining to SW, but it's purely my own fanon, and I know that very well. I think my preferred interpretations don't clash all too much with the basic intent of how we should see the setting (again: I'm pretty "middle-of-the-road"), but opinions may vary.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Then who got the UP-side, and who got the DOWN-side?!

By default, I'd assume the Light Side is the Upside and the Dark Side the Downside.

Unless... y'all have any more fan theories that bring everything we thought we knew about either ’verse into question? :p
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Okay, so I promised a (partial) outline for an original Star Wars story, as drafted by ChatGPT (with a lot of prompting, filtering and editing by yours truly).

This is the cleaned-up amalgamation of its best ideas. I think it’s not bad at all, but it’s obviously very general. More of a fairly elaborate premise that you’d subsequently have to refine and expand in your own way. Interestingly, even after I edited the various answers together into a single text, and manually removed a lot of ChatGPT's characteristic repetitions, the GPT Detector could still tell (with >95% certainty) that the text was AI-generated.

Note that I gave it repeated tries, including both attempts to get it to draft alternative sequel ideas and attempts at original stories in the setting. This one, which was an original story, turned out the best. So, as far as I can say based on my limited experience, this is about the best it can do when you want it to come up with SW story ideas.

It’s a bit on the long side, so I’ll try to put it below a spoiler-cut.


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The story is set in the distant past, at a time when the galaxy is divided between the Jedi Order and the Sith Empire. The Jedi, who are peacekeepers and protectors, are in a state of war with the Sith, who seek to conquer and control the galaxy through their mastery of the dark side of the Force.

In this period, there is no unified Republic. The galaxy is divided into the Sith Empire on one side, and a coalition led by the Jedi on the other side. During the war against the Sith Empire, the Jedi Order has proven to be particularly effective in their role of protectors who secure peace in the space they control. Their wisdom and military expertise is sought after by other factions.

Over time, as the Jedi Order has taken a leading role in the war against the Sith, have they gained more control over the war effort against. The Jedi slowly became the primary military and political force opposing the Sith Empire. Jedi were often appointed in leading roles by the existing governments of the galaxy, as they were seen as the best equipped to deal with the Sith threat. Other factions, such as different planets or systems, simply came to rely on the Jedi for protection and also wanted to join forces with the Jedi Order. This caused the formation of a Jedi-led coalition. The Jedi came to be in charge of the entire faction fighting against the Sith.

The coalition led by the Jedi consists of many different factions that have joined forces with the Jedi Order to fight against the Sith Empire. The coalition has a unified goal of defeating the Sith Empire, but it also has different factions with different agendas, creating tension and conflicts within the coalition. The story can explore the dynamics within the coalition, as different factions compete for resources and power, and how the Jedi characters navigate these conflicts while trying to maintain their principles.



The protagonist of the story is a young woman named Lyra Starsong, who is born into a family of Jedi. Despite her strong connection to the Force, Lyra struggles to control her powers and is seen as a wildcard among the members of the Jedi Order.

In the time the story takes place, the Jedi are not as secluded and are more integrated into society; they have families, and some of them even hold key government positions. This can provide a lot of opportunities for the story to explore the Jedi Order's relationship with society and how Jedi interact with their families. This makes it more likely for Lyra to come from a family of Jedi, and for the story to explore how her family ties affect her role as a Jedi.

Lyra's family is a traditional Jedi family, where multiple members of her family are Jedi Knights, and they have a strong connection and loyalty to the Jedi Order. Their parents have died in the war against the Sith Empire.

Lyra has two siblings, both of whom are also Jedi. This could create a more complex dynamic within the family, as the three of them could have different roles and responsibilities within the Jedi Order. They could be serving in different units. Additionally, they could have different personalities and views on the war and the Jedi Order, sometimes leading to conflicts and disagreements. At other times, they could also be supportive of each other, and they could face the challenges of the war together, supporting each other and helping to keep each other grounded. All this could create interesting conflicts and dynamics within the family, as they try to balance their Jedi duties with their family obligations.

Lyra's older brother Taron is a skilled warrior and a respected figure in the Jedi Order. He's a natural leader, and he's always been protective of Lyra. He is a calm and composed person, who is always ready to take on any challenge that comes his way. He is a strong believer in the Jedi code and is a stickler for following the rules. This could create conflicts with Lyra, who may feel constrained by the Jedi Order's regulations.

Lyra's younger sister Kara is a very young Jedi Knight, but she is a highly skilled and a natural diplomat. She is a kind and empathetic person, who is always ready to help others and make peace. She is a strong believer in the Jedi's mission to bring peace to the galaxy, and she is always looking for ways to help others. She and Lyra have a close relationship, they share a deep understanding of the Jedi code, and they often rely on each other for support and guidance.

As the war between the Jedi and the Sith intensifies, Lyra finds herself thrust into the middle of the conflict. Despite her struggles, she is chosen for a mission to infiltrate the Sith Empire and gather information about a new weapon that could turn the tide of the war. She sees this mission as a chance for her to prove herself and gain the acceptance of her peers in the Jedi Order. Her abilities are suited to this task, but her personality is not.



During her mission, Lyra discovers what the weapon is, and finds out that it was created by Zorin, a rogue Jedi who defected to the Sith Empire.

Zorin was once a gifted Jedi Knight who struggled with the Jedi's strict code of conduct and the weight of their responsibility to maintain peace in the galaxy. The war seemed endless to him. At heart, he was a brilliant scientist and inventor, who hated the war and the militaristic state of the galaxy. He also had a strong desire for knowledge and power, which made him question the Jedi's way of using the force. This inner turmoil led him to seek out knowledge and power in the forbidden ways of the dark side, eventually leading him to leave the Jedi Order.

He was then seduced to the dark side of the force by the Sith. Zorin's defection to the Sith Empire was not an easy decision, but he was lured by the promises of the Sith Lord Veltir, who promised him knowledge and the power to end the war for good. Zorin thought that he would be able to better protect and serve the galaxy by joining the Sith Empire. One side winning the war would be the only way to end the conflict and restore order to a unified galaxy.

But as time passed he realized that he was wrong and that the path of the dark side only led to destruction. Even though he's gone rogue, it's clear that he still has some sense of morality and guilt over his actions, and this could be an interesting angle to explore in the story.

Zorin is the creator of the weapon that Lyra is sent to infiltrate the Sith Empire to gather information about. Lyra starts to empathize with him as she learns more about him and sees the inner workings of the Sith Empire. His motivations are similar to hers. He has the same objections to the Jedi ways.

Zorin's weapon is a device that can influence the minds of others to a degree, making them more susceptible to persuasion or suggestion. This idea was invented by Lord Veltir, who is known for his intellect and manipulation. He was once a brilliant scientist and inventor, who became obsessed with the dark side of the force and eventually became a Sith Lord. He is a master of the force, and has developed several new technologies and weapons that have given the Sith Empire a significant advantage in the war. He never managed to complete his final invention, and needed Zorin to lead that project.

Lord Veltir is a cold, calculating, and ruthless figure, who sees the war as a means to an end. He is obsessed with power and control, and will stop at nothing to achieve his goals. He sees Zorin as a valuable asset, due to his skills and knowledge, and he sees Zorin as a possible successor.

Lord Veltir is a master of manipulation and persuasion. He was able to see Zorin's inner turmoil and use it to his advantage. Lord Veltir is a figure of great ambition and cunning, who understands Zorin's potential and seeks to use it to further the goals of the Sith Empire. He manipulated Zorin into believing that joining the Sith Empire was the only way to protect and serve the galaxy. Zorin, who is desperate for answers and a sense of belonging, falls for it.

Lord Veltir's ultimate goal is to gain complete power and control over the galaxy, and he sees the weapon created by Zorin as a way to control the Jedi and give the Sith Empire an unbeatable advantage in the war. Lord Veltir wants to use the weapon to control the minds of individuals or groups of people, allowing the Sith Empire to control entire planets or even entire systems. This weapon could be used to infiltrate and control the governments of key systems, giving the Sith Empire a foothold in those systems and ultimately allowing them to control the entire galaxy.



However, Zorin's ultimate goal is to end the war without any more bloodshed and make amends for his past actions. He believes that that the quicker the war ends, the lesser the destruction and loss of life. The weapon was created as a way to end the war quickly and with minimal loss of life on both sides. In his own mind, he sees it as a means to redeem himself for his past actions and to try to make up for the harm he caused as a Sith. In his own way, he want to use his knowledge and skills to help bring an end to the war and restore peace to the galaxy. He intends to use the weapon on both the Jedi and the Sith to force an end to the war in a way that sees neither side destroy the other. He knows this is not the way of the Jedi, and that it is still morally questionable, but he is determined to end the war regardless of the moral cost to himself.

This creates an interesting and tense dynamic between Zorin and Lord Veltir as their goals and motivations clash. Lord Veltir may see Zorin's decision to use the weapon on both sides as a betrayal and attempt to stop him, leading to a confrontation between the two.

The story could also explore the theme of morality and the cost of achieving peace, as Zorin's decision to use the weapon on both sides could be seen as a morally questionable action, but also as a desperate one in order to finally end the war. He justifies the use of the weapon to himself as a way to end the war peacefully by convincing the Jedi and the Sith to stop fighting. He ignores that he is controlling others against their will. In his mind, the weapon is as a tool for diplomacy, rather than a weapon of war. It can be used to sway key leaders and key figures in both the Jedi and the Sith to see the value of peace and to agree to a ceasefire.

It also shows Zorin's character development from a rogue Jedi who defected to the dark side and now regrets his actions, and wants to make amends for the harm he caused in a questionable way. He is willing to do whatever it takes to end the war quickly and peacefully, even if it means going against both the Jedi and the Sith. In the story, this raises questions about the true nature of peace and the cost of achieving it.



As Lyra struggles to complete her mission and escape the Sith Empire, she begins to question her own beliefs and loyalties. Lyra starts to understand Zorin's motivations as she learns more about him. She starts to see the war from a different perspective, and begins to believe that using the weapon may be justified. Lyra is caught between her duty to the Jedi Order and her own desire to end the war. She starts to question her own beliefs and loyalties. She starts to empathize with Zorin, who she sees as a tragic figure who was driven to the dark side by circumstances beyond his control.

In the end, Lyra must make a difficult decision. Will she sabotage the weapon and return to the Jedi, or will she choose to side with Zorin? Her decision will have far-reaching consequences for the entire galaxy and will change the course of the war.

This story explores themes of loyalty, duty, and morality, and how the characters struggle with their own beliefs and values in the midst of a war. The story also explores the theme of identity and belonging, as Lyra struggles to find her place in the world and reconcile her own beliefs and values with those of the Jedi Order.



Here are a few supporting characters that could play a role in the story:

— Admiral Garrick Rael: A highly skilled and experienced admiral who leads the military forces of a key planet in the coalition. He is a pragmatic leader who prioritizes the safety of his people, but he is also fiercely loyal to the Jedi Order and the coalition. He could be a valuable ally to the Jedi in their military operations against the Sith Empire.

— General Cassius Jorn: A tough and experienced general who commands the ground forces of the coalition. He is a no-nonsense leader who is highly respected by his troops, and he is known for his tactical genius. He distrusts the Jedi and believes that the coalition relies too much on them.

— Senator Leena Auren: A charismatic and ambitious senator who represents a key planet in the coalition. She is a skilled politician and a powerful orator, and she is known for her ability to rally support for the coalition's cause. She is willing to work with other factions if they support her plans in return.

— Captain Jax Dono: The leader of a group of elite commandos who are part of the coalition's special forces. He is an experienced soldier who has seen the horrors of the war firsthand. He is initially skeptical of the Jedi Order and their abilities, but over time, he comes to respect and rely on them as they work together to defeat the Sith Empire.

— Doctor Ava Kellic: A compassionate doctor who leads a medical team that treats the wounded and the sick in the coalition's military bases. She is a skilled medic who is dedicated to saving lives, and she is deeply committed to the coalition's cause.


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...At that point, ChatGPT’s connection crapped out, and attempts to re-start the conversation led to jumbled answers. I gave up on it, primarily because what you see above is already a distillation of the repetitive slew of answers that it gave me in total. It’s still repetitive at points, and I already deleted the bulk of the output! Doing that, and re-organising the answers to make the collected “outline” more readable, took more time than the actual conversation with ChatGPT.

If it had been able to keep going, I would have asked it how the supporting characters could fit into the plot, and what relations they might have to the main characters. To which ChatGPT would no doubt have given me a list of superficial possibilities, mostly based on the sort of elements that we often see in SW stories. I could then have picked the options that I liked, and asked it to elaborate on those. That’s how the above outline was produced, after all.

Personally, even without consulting the wisdom of ChatGPT, I surmise that there’s room for a subplot where Lyra’s brother Taron becomes friends with Captain Dono (who distrusts the Jedi at first). At the same time, Lyra’s idealistic sister Kara could become an apprentice to the practical and opportunistic Senator Auren (allowing for a nice contrast). Maybe those answers would have been among those listed by ChatGPT, but I doubt it. It doesn’t actually understand themes and contrasts and such things.

Nonetheless, what I’ve managed to pull out of the conversation here is a pretty usable premise for an original SW story. It’s fairly generic, but you could make it engaging enough, no doubt. But to do that, you definitely need a human to take it from here!
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
That's absolutely true. I'm not suggesting that my metric of what's credible is some objective standard-- and certainly not that other interpretations are wrong. I do think there's a "general ball-park estimate" of what was roughly intended that can be deduced from all the works in the setting, viewed as a whole. By that I mean: the actual films refer to "millions of systems" in the Republic, "thousands" seceding, and later "ten thousand" ready to join the CIS. And it can be argued that against millions, a few (tens of) thousands is already a huge discrepancy -- how is the CIS a meaningful threat, then? -- but it does at least indicate that the intention was not that SW only involves a thousand planets or so.

The underlying issue is that Lucas himself didn't give a damn about the numbers, he just wanted an engaging story. So the films have some weird contradictions, most of which can be treated as metaphorical figures of speech, or otherwise contextualised or interpreted as needed. But the follow-up problem is that many EU contributors indeed interpreted it... and in very divergent ways!

Unlike Lucas, I like consistency. When I come up with something, I figure stuff like this out. Imagining myself in his shoes, making SW-- I'd have a note-book listing how big the galaxy is, how many systems have habitable planets, how many of those are actually occupied, what the general population numbers tend to be like... And then I'd make sure that all future entries into the canon stick to that.

But that's just me.

So I have an idea about those things, as pertaining to SW, but it's purely my own fanon, and I know that very well. I think my preferred interpretations don't clash all too much with the basic intent of how we should see the setting (again: I'm pretty "middle-of-the-road"), but opinions may vary.
Oh I hear you, and I wasn't trying to argue for or against any particular interpretation or argue yours was "extreme" one way or the other. Any kind of for fun analysis of the Empire, or the universe at large, is going to require the author to smooth some things out or take the middle option ect.

Just that the scale is so misused and inconsistent you can pick almost any extreme and justify it with canon. Even if accepting the millions systems we can still get wildly varying interpretations depending on if the worlds are like Naboo, with 1 city of important each for the Gungans and Human populations, or Earth-like with its 7 billion.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
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Skallagrim

Well-known member
Circling back around to this idea of the Force and the Warp being the same thing: I've spent some time thinking about this, and it might actually fit-- if we assume that the Immaterium of 40K is in fact a very, ah... warped version of the Force.

The way I imagine this is that the Old Ones would have been an ancient species of incredibly powerful Force-sensitives, who at their height achieved an incredible level of enlightenment. But they were not unassailable, and the War in Heaven was so immensely destructive that it tore right into the Force, disturbing and maiming it.

Now, the Warp is both like the Force (an energy field created by all living beings) and like hyperspace (an extra-universal dimension where matter is not a strict consideration, thus allowing for speeds faster than light, up to 'infinite aceleration'). Because of this, my hypothesis is that during the War in Heaven, the Force was almost ripped apart by the unimaginable anguish of a conflict on that scale (fought by God-like, Force-wielder super-beings), which turned it into a churning couldron of primal emotion first and foremost. At the same time, I could imagine that hyperspace (always a realm half-open to the materium and half-open to the Immaterium) collapsed into the Force/Immaterium during this. This made it a far more direct, permeable access point between Materium and Immaterium.

The result is that the corrupted Force (the Warp) can now manifest itself directly into the Materium via this route (see: Warp Rift), while mortals can travel into the corrupted Force (the Warp) itself via what remains of Hyperspace.

The effect of this would be "local" (confined to our galaxy), since the Force/Warp is generated by the living beings involved. While its a mostly calm ocean of psychic conciousness in most other galaxies where intelligent life exists.... in our galaxy, the Force has become so wounded and twisted that its a frothing storm of insanity, which we call the Warp.

Psykers are basically Force-sensitives... in a galaxy where the Force itself is insane and malevolent and capable of invading their minds. Which would actually explain quite neatly why the 40K setting is so deeply fucked up.
 
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Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Circling back around to this idea of the Force and the Warp being the same thing: I've spent some time thinking about this, and it might actually fit-- if we assume that the Immaterium of 40K is in fact a very, ah... warped version of the Force.

The way I imagine this is that the Old Ones would have been an ancient species of incredibly powerful Force-sensitives, who at their height achieved an incredible level of enlightenment. But they were not unassailable, and the War in Heaven was so immensely destructive that it tore right into the Force, disturbing and maiming it.

Now, the Warp is both like the Force (an energy field created by all living beings) and like hyperspace (an extra-universal dimension where matter is not a strict consideration, thus allowing for speeds faster than light, up to 'infinite aceleration'). Because of this, my hypothesis is that during the War in Heaven, the Force was almost ripped apart by the unimaginable anguish of a conflict on that scale (fought by God-like, Force-wielder super-beings), which turned it into a churning couldron of primal emotion first and foremost. At the same time, I could imagine that hyperspace (always a realm half-open to the materium and half-open to the Immaterium) collapsed into the Force/Immaterium during this. This made it a far more direct, permeable access point between Materium and Immaterium.

The result is that the corrupted Force (the Warp) can now manifest itself directly into the Materium via this route (see: Warp Rift), while mortals can travel into the corrupted Force (the Warp) itself via what remains of Hyperspace.

The effect of this would be "local" (confined to our galaxy), since the Force/Warp is generated by the living beings involved. While its a mostly calm ocean of psychic conciousness in most other galaxies where intelligent life exists.... in our galaxy, the Force has become so wounded and twisted that its a frothing storm of insanity, which we call the Warp.

Psykers are basically Force-sensitives... in a galaxy where the Force itself is insane and malevolent and capable of invading their minds. Which would actually explain quite neatly why the 40K setting is so deeply fucked up.

@Skallagrim
"By George! I think he's got it!"

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No, but seriously, now I'm wondering whether the Celestials (SW) and Old Ones (40K) were actually the same species that were active in at least two galaxies. Even canonically, the former are established to have been a godlike race that left various technological wonders behind — and are speculated to have "merged" with the Force itself, if I recall correctly.

Moreover, I'm also curious as to what the Ones — Father, Son, Daughter, and possibly Abeloth, depending on the continuity — truly were, so long as we're playing to this head-canon? A family of Warp entities that embodied their respective aspects of the Force, for one thing, but whether they were an eldritch pantheon on a level comparable to the Ruinous Powers or God-Emperor in the Warp is another question. At the very least, they'd be minor Warp deities, though the Father's fears of his children tearing apart the universe with their fighting — as well as the fact they personified key aspects of SW's foundational metaphysics — might mean that yes, they are in fact as powerful and "domain-encompassing" as the Chaos Gods or Emperor of Mankind.

In which case, that'd have some "interesting" ramifications for a crossover idea I came up with a while back, since it features the rejuvenated Emperor waking up on Mortis right after the Golden Throne fails. Frankly, if there's anyone other than Anakin who could replace the Father as Keeper of the Force... then surely, it's Big E. But now, I digress too much.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
No, but seriously, now I'm wondering whether the Celestials (SW) and Old Ones (40K) were actually the same species that were active in at least two galaxies. Even canonically, the former are established to have been a godlike race that left various technological wonders behind — and are speculated to have "merged" with the Force itself, if I recall correctly.

Moreover, I'm also curious as to what the Ones — Father, Son, Daughter, and possibly Abeloth, depending on the continuity — truly were, so long as we're playing to this head-canon? A family of Warp entities that embodied their respective aspects of the Force, for one thing, but whether they were an eldritch pantheon on a level comparable to the Ruinous Powers or God-Emperor in the Warp is another question. At the very least, they'd be minor Warp deities, though the Father's fears of his children tearing apart the universe with their fighting — as well as the fact they personified key aspects of SW's foundational metaphysics — might mean that yes, they are in fact as powerful and "domain-encompassing" as the Chaos Gods or Emperor of Mankind.
The Celestials and the Old Ones wouldn't have to be the same species, but would presumably be the same type of species: a "psychic/Force-sensitive super-race" that has essentially become god-like. Note that this is what the Emperor in 40K also wanred humanity to eventually become. That was his Shining Path, and the long-term purpose of his entire Master Plan.

The Ones in SW do make the comparison with 40K even more easy to apply, even though I'm personally not a big fan of the whole Mortis idea. But for our purposes here: they are an embodiment of the Force and its various main aspects. So in that sense, they are what the Chaos Gods would be, if the Immaterium in our Galaxy wasn't so horribly fucked up. Or rather: the Ruinous Powers are the emotion-and-anarchy-based entities that have replaced such more 'pacific' manifestations, in our Galaxy.



Meanwhile, I see the Emperor of Man as more of an emerging counterpart to the Aeldari gods. That is to say: everything "supernatural" is actually "an energy field created by all living beings", and once a species awakens to the Force/Immaterium, it slowly begins to manifest its fundamental beliefs as actual, coalescent entities. The Aeldari did this long ago, essentially "creating" their own pantheon. And the shamans of ancient Terra did the same thing to manifest a "potential deity", namely the Emperor. This means that the Emperor, at his full power, would be to humanity what the Aeldari gods are to the Aeldari. With the difference that there is only one Emperor -- so, monotheism -- which would make him potentially more powerful than any one of the Aeldari gods.

Such 'manifested deities' don't seem to exist in SW, because most everyone seems to just believe in the Force itself-- and that might mean that their isn't enough "belief" going around to "fuel" the actual formation of various "manifested gods". A notable exception to that might be the Goddess of the Pius Dea cult, who would then have wielded actual power in the Force during their supremacy-- and would have faded out of existence when the religion was abandoned.

(This approach also has major implications for 40K, by the way. Even disregarding the comparison to SW. In 40K, the fact that all deities are manifested due to belief is a given. This is how the Aeldari gods came into being. We see that the process can be focused and hastened through certain psychic rites; for instance with the "early awakening" of Ynnead. That is very similar to how the shamans are supposed to have created the Emperor. Now remember that the souls of the Aeldari go to their gods-- and that this process has been disrupted by Slaanesh, which is why they need the infinity circuits to safeguard their souls. Humanity is not inherently doomed to Slaanesh or any other Chaos God. If my hypothesis regarding the Emperor is true, that means that all human souls that genuinely believe in the Emperor will reside with him after death. Thus fueling his coalescing God-gestalt, and opening the door for his future "rebirth" as a true "God of Humanity" that can take on the Ruinous Powers. Just as the Aeldari hope Ynnead will be able to do for them.)
 

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