Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[AspblastUSA]

To be fair, if the Death Stars I, 2 and 2.5/starkiller could all be what is essentially black budget projects, the Empire almost certainly had the resources to spend cloaking a couple of SSDs.

It kind of boggles the mind to think about just how many resources the Galactic Empire must've been handling as part of it's day-to-day, doesn't it? That even leaving aside SKB, they built not one but two planetoid sized space stations and were able to not only keep it secret from the public but from large sections of their own government too. We're not even talking about Manhattan Project level secrecy here, where plenty of people were aware that the US and British governments were spending big on something but the details were kept secret. In a lot of portrayals the Imperial government as a whole had no idea that there was anything unusual going on at all. They managed to slip the Death Stars through the cracks!

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Cloak-capable SSDs only exist in the EU, not Disney Star Wars. Just sayin'.

 

[BlackDragon98]

To be fair, if the Death Stars I, 2 and 2.5/starkiller could all be what is essentially black budget projects, the Empire almost certainly had the resources to spend cloaking a couple of SSDs.

It kind of boggles the mind to think about just how many resources the Galactic Empire must've been handling as part of it's day-to-day, doesn't it? That even leaving aside SKB, they built not one but two planetoid sized space stations and were able to not only keep it secret from the public but from large sections of their own government too. We're not even talking about Manhattan Project level secrecy here, where plenty of people were aware that the US and British governments were spending big on something but the details were kept secret. In a lot of portrayals the Imperial government as a whole had no idea that there was anything unusual going on at all. They managed to slip the Death Stars through the cracks!

In EU, there was a RawMat (Raw Material) shortage from 1 ABY to 2 ABY. (It's what caused the creation of the Crimson Command as well.)

Goes to show that even the Empire isn't almighty.

Rawmat shortage of 1–2 ABY | Wookieepedia | Fandom

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

In fairness we have no idea the process behind the growth of adegan crystals nor what the reserves on the planet looked like. Given the first step of making Starkiller was practically cracking Ilum to get khyber crystals for the Death Stars it is possible that over-mining had completely depleted the adegans sometime in the last 4,000 years.

In Disney Star Wars? Sure...in the EU, not really. The Death Stars there didn't need any mystical crystal BS MacGuffins to work, just really powerful hypermatter reactors plus appropriate control and focusing systems. That, and competent design work, which is why Darth Sidious took a personal interest in the DS2 redesign.

A lot of the DS1's flaws were literally the fault of Grand Moff Tarkin, who overindulged his Maw Design Team, in particular the chief architect, Bevel Lemelisk. His deference to High Human Culture* also led to the use of slave labor, which literally slowed the DS1's construction down by decades.

It took Darth Sidious' personal intervention to get the fat idiots behind the Death Star to start doing their jobs properly, starting by outright killing Bevel Lemelisk and then resurrecting him as a form of motivation. And he did many times, each death more torturous than the last. He also made use of droid labor instead, which greatly sped up DS2's construction, to just a couple of years.

Lemelisk's example is probably why Moff Jerjerrod was all but pissing his pants when Darth Vader warned him the Emperor was personally coming to inspect the Death Star. The worst Darth Vader could do was kill Jerjerrod. Darth Sidious would torture him first, then kill him, and then bring him back to life before starting over again.

*Darth Sidious never actually followed High Human Culture, and its obtuse insistence on male Human supremacy. He tolerated it as a useful indulgence to the head of COMPNOR, Lord Crueya Vandron, but ignored it whenever and wherever it suited him. Mas Amedda remained Senate Vice Chair, and also had a seat on the Imperial Ruling Council, second only to Grand Vizier Sate Pestage. Darth Sidious also knew about Natasi Daala's promotion to the Navy Admiralty, and her appointment to command the Maw Defense Fleet. He personally approved of Ysanne Isard's rise to Director of Imperial Intelligence. At least two of the Emperor's Hands, Mara Jade and Roganda Ismaren, were both women. The Imperial Procurator of Justice, Hethrir, was a Firrerreo. Many of the Dark Side Adepts were either or both female and non-Human.

And let's not forget the resident tactical genius, Grand Admiral Thrawn.

 

[BlackDragon98]

In Disney Star Wars? Sure...in the EU, not really. The Death Stars there didn't need any mystical crystal BS MacGuffins to work, just really powerful hypermatter reactors plus appropriate control and focusing systems. That, and competent design work, which is why Darth Sidious took a personal interest in the DS2 redesign.

A lot of the DS1's flaws were literally the fault of Grand Moff Tarkin, who overindulged his Maw Design Team, in particular the chief architect, Bevel Lemelisk. His deference to High Human Culture* also led to the use of slave labor, which literally slowed the DS1's construction down by decades.

It took Darth Sidious' personal intervention to get the fat idiots behind the Death Star to start doing their jobs properly, starting by outright killing Bevel Lemelisk and then resurrecting him as a form of motivation. And he did many times, each death more torturous than the last. He also made use of droid labor instead, which greatly sped up DS2's construction, to just a couple of years.

Lemelisk's example is probably why Moff Jerjerrod was all but pissing his pants when Darth Vader warned him the Emperor was personally coming to inspect the Death Star. The worst Darth Vader could do was kill Jerjerrod. Darth Sidious would torture him first, then kill him, and then bring him back to life before starting over again.

*Darth Sidious never actually followed High Human Culture, and its obtuse insistence on male Human supremacy. He tolerated it as a useful indulgence to the head of COMPNOR, Lord Crueya Vandron, but ignored it whenever and wherever it suited him. Mas Amedda remained Senate Vice Chair, and also had a seat on the Imperial Ruling Council, second only to Grand Vizier Sate Pestage. Darth Sidious also knew about Natasi Daala's promotion to the Navy Admiralty, and her appointment to command the Maw Defense Fleet. He personally approved of Ysanne Isard's rise to Director of Imperial Intelligence. At least two of the Emperor's Hands, Mara Jade and Roganda Ismaren, were both women. The Imperial Procurator of Justice, Hethrir, was a Firrerreo. Many of the Dark Side Adepts were either or both female and non-Human.

And let's not forget the resident tactical genius, Grand Admiral Thrawn.

Ironically, the Empire was this close to recreating and mass producing the Sith Empire's Silencer.

Before Tarkin walked in and started whining about his stupid battle moon.

Star Destroyer (Twilight) | Wookieepedia | Fandom

Twilight (operation) | Wookieepedia | Fandom

An Empire of Idiots.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Ironically, the Empire was this close to recreating and mass producing the Sith Empire's Silencer.

Before Tarkin walked in and started whining about his stupid battle moon.

Star Destroyer (Twilight) | Wookieepedia | Fandom

Twilight (operation) | Wookieepedia | Fandom

An Empire of Idiots.

Yeah, in-universe, the Galactic Empire, whether from the EU or Disney, was always struggling to match the Old Sith Empire's power and glory.

 

[Bacle]

It's funny, in Disney canon, the rawmat shortage after the first Death Star's destruction forced Palp and Vader to effectively beg Jabba, and by extension the Hutt Cartels, for resources from thier space.

Being stuck begging the Hutts for help had to sting.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

It's funny, in Disney canon, the rawmat shortage after the first Death Star's destruction forced Palp and Vader to effectively beg Jabba, and by extension the Hutt Cartels, for resources from thier space.

Being stuck begging the Hutts for help had to sting.

To be fair, the Sith Empire also had to treat the Hutts with care, at least up until the Hutts decided to make a play for power. And even then, the Sith Empire had to put in extra effort to be very subtle undermining the Hutts.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

It's funny, in Disney canon, the rawmat shortage after the first Death Star's destruction forced Palp and Vader to effectively beg Jabba, and by extension the Hutt Cartels, for resources from thier space.

Being stuck begging the Hutts for help had to sting.

What? The Empire has absolutely no reason to beg the Hutts for anything, even in Disney canon. The Imperial Navy still has twenty-six thousand state of the art battleships with countless more support vessels. What can the Hutts do to stop that if the Empire decides "your territories are mine now"?

That aside, the impression I got from Hutt-Imperial relations in the Original Trilogy is more that the Hutts are crime lords that engage in petty felony like smuggling, but if they put a toe out of line the Empire will squash like them bugs. They're in the sweet spot of "a bit too troublesome for their size" and "not big enough of a problem" for the Empire to give them the time of day.

 

[Battlegrinder]

An Empire of Idiots.

It's something of a requirement given the way the setting works. I read through the imperial handbook recently, a little in universe guide on the imperial military with attached comments from the rebels, and the resource disparity is absurd.

Even post endor, the rebels:
Cannot even field regimental level ground forces, let alone armies.
Have no artillery nor the crews to operate captured imperial guns.
Could not use an ISD if they capture one, as they lack the manpower to crew it.

And those are legends rebels, who at least built up to the point of having that stuff, vs the current canon rebels that are even more feeble.

When you've set your heroes to be this week, you kind of have to set up the villian to fit....which in this case reflects badly on the heroes, as it takes the rebels from bravely fighting to overthrow the empire to just surviving until the empire tears itself apart.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

When you've set your heroes to be this week, you kind of have to set up the villian to fit....which in this case reflects badly on the heroes, as it takes the rebels from bravely fighting to overthrow the empire to just surviving until the empire tears itself apart.

In the Original Trilogy, I got the impression that the Rebels have been at it for years and, despite being a problem, aren't anywhere near overthrowing the Empire until the Hail Mary of Endor. It's achieving the unthinkable in killing the Emperor and Vader that sends the Empire into tailspin, and the nascent New Republic capitalised on that in the old EU.

Still, I've no doubt that if there weren't an Endor, the Rebellion would have continued to grow until it reached critical mass. By the sounds of it, Palpatine just did not do enough to reign in the real crazies of the Imperial administration, which destroyed the Empire's credibility and popularity.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

In the Original Trilogy, I got the impression that the Rebels have been at it for years and, despite being a problem, aren't anywhere near overthrowing the Empire until the Hail Mary of Endor. It's achieving the unthinkable in killing the Emperor and Vader that sends the Empire into tailspin, and the nascent New Republic capitalised on that in the old EU.

This is actually true. The rebels were not losing, but they weren't winning either.

Still, I've no doubt that if there weren't an Endor, the Rebellion would have continued to grow until it reached critical mass. By the sounds of it, Palpatine just did not do enough to reign in the real crazies of the Imperial administration, which destroyed the Empire's credibility and popularity.

Considering Palpatine's end game involved replacing all of those with Dark Side Adepts, perhaps that was the whole point. That, or he might have been trying to recreate Darth Vitiate's galaxy-wide Ritual of Nathema, thus reclaiming not just the title but also the power of the ancient Sith Emperor.

 

[Battlegrinder]

In the Original Trilogy, I got the impression that the Rebels have been at it for years and, despite being a problem, aren't anywhere near overthrowing the Empire until the Hail Mary of Endor. It's achieving the unthinkable in killing the Emperor and Vader that sends the Empire into tailspin, and the nascent New Republic capitalised on that in the old EU.

That's correct, but there seems to be a bit of a disconnect. My issue is less the rebels were portrayed as the underdogs who were not able to openly challenge the empire directly, and more that they're portrayed as being laughably weak in general.

"We can't build up armies on the scale the empire does" is one thing. "We're fighting a galaxy wide resistance against the empire but can't scrap up enough personal to operate a few artillery pieces or field more than a few companies of troops" is another. One portrays the rebels as the underdog, the other is a non factor.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

That's correct, but there seems to be a bit of a disconnect. My issue is less the rebels were portrayed as the underdogs who were not able to openly challenge the empire directly, and more that they're portrayed as being laughably weak in general.

"We can't build up armies on the scale the empire does" is one thing. "We're fighting a galaxy wide resistance against the empire but can't scrap up enough personal to operate a few artillery pieces or field more than a few companies of troops" is another. One portrays the rebels as the underdog, the other is a non factor.

Yes I will agree, that is rather daft. A galaxy wide insurgency should have numbers and resources beyond imagining, even if it is dwarfed by the Empire. If anything their problem should have been less "we don't have the manpower" and more "adapting our guerrilla forces into field armies is quite a headache." The saving grace there should have been significant ex-Imperial forces throwing their lot in with the Rebellion and showing them how it's done.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

That's correct, but there seems to be a bit of a disconnect. My issue is less the rebels were portrayed as the underdogs who were not able to openly challenge the empire directly, and more that they're portrayed as being laughably weak in general.

"We can't build up armies on the scale the empire does" is one thing. "We're fighting a galaxy wide resistance against the empire but can't scrap up enough personal to operate a few artillery pieces or field more than a few companies of troops" is another. One portrays the rebels as the underdog, the other is a non factor.

Yes I will agree, that is rather daft. A galaxy wide insurgency should have numbers and resources beyond imagining, even if it is dwarfed by the Empire. If anything their problem should have been less "we don't have the manpower" and more "adapting our guerrilla forces into field armies is quite a headache." The saving grace there should have been significant ex-Imperial forces throwing their lot in with the Rebellion and showing them how it's done.

Did "Empire at War" do that right? Like, while the Rebellion obviously couldn't win an open war against the Empire, they could amass a fighting force and concentrate that force at weak points in the empire's defenses?

 

[Battlegrinder]

Did "Empire at War" do that right? Like, while the Rebellion obviously couldn't win an open war against the Empire, they could amass a fighting force and concentrate that force at weak points in the empire's defenses?

No, in Empire ar War the rebels can wage an open war against the empire and overcome them with pure military force.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Another mystery from over forty years ago solved by nerds including a... Star Wars Font Expert. Now we know what the text says in a TIE Fighter targeting screen thanks to Ender Smith and EC Henry!



Chariots Warning!

 

[Zachowon]

@Jaenera Targaryen have you looked at what the new expansion for SWTOR is gonna allow?

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

@Jaenera Targaryen have you looked at what the new expansion for SWTOR is gonna allow?

Which part? I was honestly more interested in the upcoming developments on Manaan and wherever Darth Malgus went off to. After Flashpoint Meridian, and as a predominantly Imperial player, I'm looking forward to continuing to grind the Galactic Republic under the Sith Empire's boot.

EDIT: Especially since this expansion is centered around us. I mean, it is called Legacy of the SITH.

 

[Zachowon]

Which part? I was honestly more interested in the upcoming developments on Manaan and wherever Darth Malgus went off to. After Flashpoint Meridian, and as a predominantly Imperial player, I'm looking forward to continuing to grind the Galactic Republic under the Sith Empire's boot.

EDIT: Especially since this expansion is centered around us. I mean, it is called Legacy of the SITH.

You can give anyone any type of weapon.
Jedi with Sith powers, soth with jedi powers. A guardian dual weilding etc etx