What If? Star Trek Federation is transported into the 40k galaxy

[Agent23]

He's not the only half-Eldar Ultramarine either. So no, that doesn't remotely afford us a license to ignore canon.

Spoiler

Hey, check it out, an Eldar rune overlaying the Ultramarine one on a pauldron.

This parody comic isn't canon, of course, but it does neatly establish just how many sources in the game agree there's half-Eldar Ultramines running around.

[/QUOTE]
Does the fact that new lore replaces him with Trigurius not ring a bell?

 

[Zachowon]

He's not the only half-Eldar Ultramarine either. So no, that doesn't remotely afford us a license to ignore canon.

Spoiler

Hey, check it out, an Eldar rune overlaying the Ultramarine one on a pauldron.

This parody comic isn't canon, of course, but it does neatly establish just how many sources in the game agree there's half-Eldar Ultramines running around.

[/QUOTE]
It'd like Squats. They used to exist and have been retconned out of the series/killed off. You can tell because that I'd all early 40k

They shouldn't, not in technology since its all derived from the same set of encoded knowledge baked into their genes. Now designs fluctuate since each Ork Mek just basically builds what he wants, and is building it out whatever scrap he can scrounge.

Further you are suggesting Orks can build Power Klaws that truly function but guns elude them?


This is from the Ork Codex? A novel? A videogame?



Well we have evidence that weedkiller does work. What we don't know is if the Imperium solved it or not. Whether that's because they don't know weed killer works on Orks or simply are unable to devise a suitable delivery mechanism.



The Admech is a religious institution, not a scientific body. That alone will impede any "experiment" since anything that violates a preconceived "Truth" is going to be risked being heresy. Further its an open question how much of their tech even the Admech truly understands and how much is just blind monkey repetition mangled with mysticism and useless rites. To quote the codex:



Core rule book, copyright 2020, page 45.

So its quite possible the Imperium has never found out weed killer works because no one understand why weed killer kills plants or can conceive how it might be applied to Greenskins.

You do know how Primaris Space Marines were created right? And how numerous things are actually being worked on ir found out.

And no, we don't know weed killer works. If we did DAoT Humanity which would have found It would have wiped the Orksnout that way.
They didn't, neither did the Eldar, neither can the Tau.

As for Ork Tech.

It varies wildly. A power Klaw used by a Warboss is definitely more well put together by a Big Mek then a shootah a Ork Boy put together for a fight.

 

[Bear Ribs]

It'd like Squats. They used to exist and have been retconned out of the series/killed off. You can tell because that I'd all early 40k

You say. Show me where the Devs say. This thread's been chock full of demands that we ignore any canon that would undercut the 40K side of the vs. debate but no evidence. 2021, when we had Illiyanne Natasé serving on an Ultramarine ship doesn't seem so ancient.

Does the fact that new lore replaces him with Trigurius not ring a bell?

No, you have the bad habit of trying to ignore any lore anywhere that disagrees with your assumptions. Only word by the devs, not fans trying to win a vs. debate, ring any bells here.

 

[Agent23]

You say. Show me where the Devs

Dude, WH40K is a tabletop with a huge library of tie in novels primarily, what devs are you talking about? 😂

EDIT:


In any case, the rules are ambiguous.

Usually they say that everything is canon, but that would mean that stuff like Rogue Trader and Xenology would be, despite later releases and works contradicting them directly.

Like for instance the ability of Humans and Eldar to breed, which is pretty much impossible according to the new lore.

So, if the official policy is nebulous and the various sets of canon contradict each-other I guess it is left to the OP.

Yo, @Zachowon tag you are it!

 

[Bear Ribs]

Dude, WH40K is a tabletop with a huge library of tie in novels primarily, what devs are you talking about? 😂

In any case, the rules are ambiguous.

Usually they say that everything is canon, but that would mean that stuff like Rogue Trader and Xenology would be, despite later releases and works contradicting them directly.

Like for instance the ability of Humans and Eldar to breed, which is pretty much impossible according to the new lore.

So, if the official policy is nebulous and the various sets of canon contr

So that's a "No, I got nothing to back up my claims?"

 

[Agent23]

So that's a "No, I got nothing to back up my claims?"

You already got what backs up my claims:
1) The retcon of the Eldar Librarian with Trigurius.
2) The retcon of the ability of Eldar and Humans to make babies together entirely.

As to Xenology, well, it was something written by a rogue inquisitor, so the feds will not be able to get a copy from your nearest bookstore.

 

[Bear Ribs]

You already got what backs up my claims:
1) The retcon of the Eldar Librarian with Trigurius.
2) The retcon of the ability of Eldar and Humans to make babies together entirely.

As to Xenology, well, it was something written by a rogue inquisitor, so the feds will not be able to get a copy from your nearest bookstore.

But you just said there's no devs to do those retcons and it's all ambiguous, how do we know it's not the other way around? Put up or shut up.

 

[Agent23]

But you just said there's no devs to do those retcons and it's all ambiguous, how do we know it's not the other way around? Put up or shut up.

1. Trigurius replacing whatshisname.

2. Aeldari - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

Eldar seem to reproduce in stages, with new genetic material being added by the father to the developing embryo over an extended period. This process is ill-understood, but Eldar autopsies are suggestive of it.It is however known that the Eldar gestation cycle is much longer than for most other races.

 

[Bear Ribs]

1. Trigurius replacing whatshisname.

From your own Wiki:

Known Members of the Ultramarines - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

​

Nastase, Illiyan

Post-Heresy (M41)

Chief Librarian and Astropath.

Where's Trigurius on that list?

2. Aeldari - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

So? That doesn't say they can't reproduce with humans. This is a fantasy setting with straight-up magical powers, it does not follow real-life genetics. The Eldar look to be a fuckton closer to human than a Genestealer does but those have no problem reproducing with humans and Eldar alike.

 

[Agent23]

So? That doesn't say they can't reproduce with humans. This is a fantasy setting with straight-up magical powers, it does not follow real-life genetics. The Eldar look to be a fuckton closer to human than a Genestealer does but those have no problem reproducing with humans and Eldar alike.

Genestleares basically do what the Body Snatchers aliens and the Xenomorphs did and that is by design.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Genestleares basically do what the Body Snatchers aliens and the Xenomorphs did and that is by design.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

I disagree. Simple brood parasitism doesn't work across multiple generations, and doesn't have "gene" in its very name.

Also what's your answer to the bits you just snipped out?

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

You do know how Primaris Space Marines were created right? And how numerous things are actually being worked on ir found out.

While I won't pretend I'm super knowledgable about Primaris Space Marines, thinking they're one of the dumber ideas Games Workshop had, I believe they are the product of Belisarius Cawl who is the most non-Ad Mech like Adeptus Mechanicus

And no, we don't know weed killer works. If we did DAoT Humanity which would have found It would have wiped the Orksnout that way.

Yes, we do know it works, Xenology literally has someone dissect an Ork and discover that weed killer affects them. As for DAoT we don't know a lot about that era.

Now if you have a quote of them trying weed killer and it not being effective on Orks that would be different.

They didn't, neither did the Eldar, neither can the Tau.

It's an odd oversight but if canon demands they haven't done so yet I imagine that's due to plot armor so the Orks aren't wiped out. Obviously that shouldn't be a concern for this scenario.

It varies wildly. A power Klaw used by a Warboss is definitely more well put together by a Big Mek then a shootah a Ork Boy put together for a fight.

I'm going to need evidence to support your assertion. Just like I'd like evidence for Ork tech requiring reality warping powers to work.

He's not the only half-Eldar Ultramarine either. So no, that doesn't remotely afford us a license to ignore canon.

Wait, human mother and an alien father? Joining a predominantly human led organization and wearing blue? Hi Spock!

 

[The Whispering Monk]

It'd like Squats. They used to exist and have been retconned out of the series/killed off. You can tell because that I'd all early 40k

Just so you all know...the Squats are back...just called something else:

Sunday Preview – Give a Warm Welcome to the Leagues of Votann - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

 

[Zachowon]

You say. Show me where the Devs say. This thread's been chock full of demands that we ignore any canon that would undercut the 40K side of the vs. debate but no evidence. 2021, when we had Illiyanne Natasé serving on an Ultramarine ship doesn't seem so ancient.

No, you have the bad habit of trying to ignore any lore anywhere that disagrees with your assumptions. Only word by the devs, not fans trying to win a vs. debate, ring any bells here.

An Eldar helping humanity against Chaos is normal.
A half eldar half human is and has nit been seen in canon since the reproduction of Eldar have changed.
As well as the fact Space Marines have to be fully human as anything but that qould corrupt the gene seed.

Ans there are no Devs here.
new lore can over ride and retcon old lore

While I won't pretend I'm super knowledgable about Primaris Space Marines, thinking they're one of the dumber ideas Games Workshop had, I believe they are the product of Belisarius Cawl who is the most non-Ad Mech like Adeptus Mechanicus


Yes, we do know it works, Xenology literally has someone dissect an Ork and discover that weed killer affects them. As for DAoT we don't know a lot about that era.

Now if you have a quote of them trying weed killer and it not being effective on Orks that would be different.


It's an odd oversight but if canon demands they haven't done so yet I imagine that's due to plot armor so the Orks aren't wiped out. Obviously that shouldn't be a concern for this scenario.



I'm going to need evidence to support your assertion. Just like I'd like evidence for Ork tech requiring reality warping powers to work.


Wait, human mother and an alien father? Joining a predominantly human led organization and wearing blue? Hi Spock!

Besides the fact there have been numerous times that Ork Tech is literally cobbled together trash, as well as the fact that painting something red makes it go faster. That alone shows thier psychic powers allow for reality to bend to thier will if they believe in it.

And Cawl is one of the leaders of Mars. Dude has basically ruled the AD mech, And had been around for over 10k years.
Dude was there during the heresy so he knows what works and what does.

And DAoT Humanity kept the Orks at bay but they didn't wipe them out.
If Weed killer was really that effective Tau, or DAoT Humanity or the Voltann would have used it by now.

"BUT CANON DEMANSS THEN SURVIVE".
theu have almost been wiped out completely multiple times, at least on tje large scale. They jist het strong eniugh that it takes a lot more to defeat them.

thwre is also been hints they may exist outside the Galaxy

Just so you all know...the Squats are back...just called something else:

Sunday Preview – Give a Warm Welcome to the Leagues of Votann - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

They arnt the Squats though. The Squats were humans. These arnt technically.
These are space dwarves that have DAoT tech.

 

[Bear Ribs]

An Eldar helping humanity against Chaos is normal.
A half eldar half human is and has nit been seen in canon since the reproduction of Eldar have changed.
As well as the fact Space Marines have to be fully human as anything but that qould corrupt the gene seed.

Ans there are no Devs here.
new lore can over ride and retcon old lore

Yes, I think we all realize there are no Devs here. The problem is there's no reason we should take your uninformed opinion as holy writ without at least something, you have nothing backing up anything you say except wild speculation and you and Agent23 have been proven not to know what you're talking about multiple times in this thread.

Like right here:

They arnt the Squats though. The Squats were humans. These arnt technically.
These are space dwarves that have DAoT tech.

Games Workshop literally says outright they're the Squats.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/02/what-april-fools-the-41st-millenniums-next-faction-is-real-heres-a-model-to-prove-it/

And while those nasty Necromundans still call them Squats, that’s not at all how they refer to themselves.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

They arnt the Squats though. The Squats were humans. These arnt technically.
These are space dwarves that have DAoT tech.

"To-may-toe" "To-mah-toe"

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Besides the fact there have been numerous times that Ork Tech is literally cobbled together trash, as well as the fact that painting something red makes it go faster. That alone shows thier psychic powers allow for reality to bend to thier will if they believe in it.

Orks cobble their technology from what they scavenged, yes. But that doesn't mean it requires a reality warping power to function. Hell it was a premise behind a reality tv show.

As for "something red makes it go faster", does it actually go faster? Orks certainly believe it but to my knowledge the only place this is referenced is in the rules granting a speed bonus. And rules are rarely considered canon to these discussions.

And Cawl is one of the leaders of Mars. Dude has basically ruled the AD mech, And had been around for over 10k years.
Dude was there during the heresy so he knows what works and what does.

That would appear to be incorrect. While he is a "Master of masters" he only appeared openly during the 13th Black crusade and appears to have been a super secret and mysterious figure focused on the Imperium's "greatest secret". He does not appear to have been directly involved in and shaped AdMech's culture in the intervening ten thousand years. By every indication he is an exception not the rule of the ADMech.

And DAoT Humanity kept the Orks at bay but they didn't wipe them out.

Well then, per your logic, the DAoT couldn't deduce that weed killer affected Ork spores.

If Weed killer was really that effective Tau, or DAoT Humanity or the Voltann would have used it by now.

I'm noticing a complete lack of evidence. All it would take is one example of one of the parties trying weed killer and it not being effective on Orks. Yet you keep trying to overrule canon because you personally dislike it.

they have almost been wiped out completely multiple times, at least on the large scale. They just (are?) strong enough that it takes a lot more to defeat them.

*Editing done by me

And was this accomplished in the current setting or in backstory? And how are we defining "wiped out"? What are the details?

 

[Agent23]

From your own Wiki:

Known Members of the Ultramarines - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

​

Nastase, Illiyan

Post-Heresy (M41)

Chief Librarian and Astropath.

By 987.M41, Nastase had become the Ultramarines Chief Librarian

Varro Tigurius - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

Varro Tigurius is the Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. He was appointed to this rank after many years of fighting and because of his deep knowledge of the galaxy and his immense psychic powers.[1]

If you take at the actual dates you will see that Trigurius replaces this guy.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Varro Tigurius - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum



If you take at the actual dates you will see that Trigurius replaces this guy.

Don't you feel shame when you snip everything about a post disproving your position except for one sentence you think you can knock down?

But yeah, I was mostly mocking the fact that you didn't know how to spell the guy's name despite claiming expertise, guess that was too subtle.

The thing is, even if you knock down Nastase, you haven't done anything to knock down Xenology, because he's not in that book. This kinda got lost because you keep snipping everything you have no argument for. You need to actually show somebody, y'know, besides yourself and Zach, saying that Eldar can't procreate with humans, which you can't because it's untrue.

But I can show the opposite.

Of all of the galaxy's ancient races the Eldar most closely resemble mankind...Indeed the two races are genetically so close it is even possible for them to interbreed. Viable offspring are rare, but not unheard of combining the physical and mental attributes of both races. Several theories have been advanced to explain the (Eldar) physical traits shared with humans, the most commonly held of which is that the two share a common ancestor. The truth will in all probability never be known... -Rick Priestly

This is what's known as the Word of God, a statement by the Devs. The thing is, we all know the books are written in-character. The sourcebooks routinely contradict each other, with each source assuring us their characters are totally about to win everything forever and are right about everything they say or think while the other sources are created by monkeys pooping on a keyboard.

The above quote? That's not an in-character sourcebook, it's a statement of fact made by the single highest authority the game can have, the original designer himself. An actual authoritative Word of God. You don't have one of those, do you?

 

[Agent23]

This is what's known as the Word of God, a statement by the Devs. The thing is, we all know the books are written in-character. The sourcebooks routinely contradict each other, with each source assuring us their characters are totally about to win everything forever and are right about everything they say or think while the other sources are created by monkeys pooping on a keyboard.

The above quote? That's not an in-character sourcebook, it's a statement of fact made by the single highest authority the game can have, the original designer himself. An actual authoritative Word of God. You don't have one of those, do you?

Lol, somebody is getting salty here.

You do realize that 40k evolved a lot from its original inception as a science fiction spoof of regular Warhammer, right?

Word of God, more like word of a former GW employee.

Once again, you are quoting a guy who left GW 12 years ago, he is as relevant to the current state of GW as much as Lucas is to new Star Wars.

Back to the Orks:

Orks have not only survived, they have prospered and are more numerous than humanity. This at least is due in part to how they reproduce. Orks reproduce through the release of spores, which grow into a plant-like womb underground that nourishes the bodies of the various Orkoid species. This is the entire basis of the Orkoid ecosystem, producing first Squigs, then Snotlings who cultivate the Squigs and fungus, then Gretchin to build the settlements, and finally the Orks themselves. This means the Orks, where ever they go, will have an abundance of food, slaves and other resources, a moving ecosystem that supports them as they go on their Waaagh!s[1]

This also makes it extremely difficult to rid a planet of Orks, even if the initial invasion is defeated. Orks release spores throughout their lives, but release them particularly at the moment of death. Without a nearby population of Orks, the fungus will eventually start the Ork life cycle anew. Decades after weathering an Ork Waaagh! settlements on a planet can find themselves faced with an unexpected attack from Feral Ork tribes coming out of the wilderness.

If the Imperium and the Eldar find it hard to deal with Orks, considering how fond they are of mass bombardment and shooting stuff, why do you actually think that the Federation will withstand an Ork Waagh, especially with its idiotic governmnet and puny, underpowered weapons?

As to me and Zach, well, whatever differences I have with the man, he at least knows his Warhammer.