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What If? Star Trek Federation is transported into the 40k galaxy

Lord Sovereign

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The sheer military might of the Imperium simply cannot be overcome. Remember, it is often said that if the Imperium could concentrate its forces, it would win.

It is a truly galactic empire whilst the Federation is basically puny.

But personally, I'm not sure if they'd come to blows. The Imperium is beset on all sides and deploying a Crusade is a Hell of an ask, but I think it would be more of a case of the two being honestly baffled by each other. You'd have a long period of the two diplomatically prodding at each other (that the Federation is willing to do diplomacy would be mind blowing to the Imperium) which may result in the Imperium taking the Federation under its wing.

Remember, the Imperium of Man is not evil, just desperate. I think Starfleet would see that as well.
 

Zachowon

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Why would Federation Biofilters be useless? Their whole purpose is to remove unwanted pathogens. At the very least it should make the Federation less susceptible to Nurgle plagues than the Imperium which has managed to survive for ten millennia and counting.


That wouldn't matter. I merely brought it up as an example of how the Warp is vulnerable to being manipulated by technological means. That it can be "scienced" and Starfleet engineers are wizards at science.



I would say it isn't always overt. Chaos mutations and Greater Daemons aren't the most subtle of things after all.

But yes, the purpose of Cults and corruption is that it's insidious. That was the point of our discussion that the Federation has come across "mystical", non-overt led cults and alien intelligences before. Now will there be a learning curve in the 40K galaxy? I think absolutely yes, Chaos Gods are far more focused on corrupting humanity than in Trek were most of the really nasty things have been forgotten lurking in the dark corners of the galaxy leading to a far more omni-present danger than anything Starfleet has dealt with up to this point. I just don't think its an insurmountable problem.
The Imperium is also willing to virus bomb planets and exterminatus if the planet can not be saved.
Nurgle and all the Choas Gods do are a game.
Wow, so the Imperium during the DAoT was as powerful as Quark.

And yet people without that religion don't get swallowed. The Tau and the Necrons and the Tyranids certainly aren't following that religion.

No, 40K biofilters are useless. That proves nothing regarding Trek filters. We've seen Trek biofilters reverse old age as part of filtering out a disease. This whole "40K junk tech they don't understand or use right doesn't work, therefore Trek stuff using entirely different, vastly more advanced principles won't either" needs to go.

The Federation's taken on all those kinds of corruption powers many times and won.

They've had ships and tools spontaneously develop sentience and coped. They've fought corrupting plagues, insidious mind controllers, and crap like the Silicon-Based-Virus the Organians were using. In 10,000 years only 37% of any species was able to even identify it and only 7 species figured out how to kill it in those 10,000 years. The Federation? One of the 7... during the ENT Era when their tech was at its most primitive. Nurgle will have to seriously up his game to top what the later Federation can handle for diseases.

Now let's talk about the kind of utter BS the Federation can pull out. You say 'nuff said about Orks? How about Medusans.


Medusans are superb navigators, non-corporeal hiveminds so strong they can resist Borg assimilation by just not wanting to be assimilated hard enough. Given that the Tyranids are immune to the Warp and all daemonic corruption specifically because they're a Hivemind, this suggests the Medusans can no-sell the Warp all on their own. But here's where they get truly ridicc.

Any corporeal life form that gazes on a Medusan suffers instant madness, followed by catatonia and then massive organ failure. If you look at their reflection in a mirror, you suffer catatonia and then amnesia but your organs don't disintegrate because you forgot what they look like from the amnesia. This is the kind of cognitohazards Starfleet has to put up with. Starfleet didn't just deal with it, Medusans are members in good standing of the Federation. There are Federation Starships carrying these things around as crewmembers (Apparently only Galaxy Class and above as they do need to arrange for special quarters to avoid the crew seeing the Medusan). The Federation takes Lovecraftian Horrors and makes them part of the crew.

How many hazards does 40K have where looking at something makes all your organs dissolve? And did the Imperium then make that hazard a member of their team?
Eldar arnt immune to Nurgle plague and neither are Tyranids.
But then again when Nurgle and Tyranids fought we have what happend to hive fleet Lotan.
The planet became so toxic that every living thing became a bubbling head of nothingness.

Necrons are because they are not beings of anything but metal.

Also, most chaos deamons thr stronger they get the more you9 can't look at them without certain help.

Tau have a faith, it is the greater good.

DAOT can iirc, build whole armies without lifting any fingers.
Last i checked Federation can't just use Replicator to build a whole fleet out of them.

The sheer military might of the Imperium simply cannot be overcome. Remember, it is often said that if the Imperium could concentrate its forces, it would win.

It is a truly galactic empire whilst the Federation is basically puny.

But personally, I'm not sure if they'd come to blows. The Imperium is beset on all sides and deploying a Crusade is a Hell of an ask, but I think it would be more of a case of the two being honestly baffled by each other. You'd have a long period of the two diplomatically prodding at each other (that the Federation is willing to do diplomacy would be mind blowing to the Imperium) which may result in the Imperium taking the Federation under its wing.

Remember, the Imperium of Man is not evil, just desperate. I think Starfleet would see that as well.
I don't know.
The Ad Mexh would definitely see some of the things the Federation except as heresy.

You sre right thiugh ti would be less coming to blows. At least at first.

The Eldar would mire then likely stab the Federation in the back first more theneeting the Imperium.



@Bear Ribs @Crom's Black Blade @Sailor.X

To get off the everyone fights from the start.
How would the Federation deal with pirates of the Eldar and the Dark Eldar?
 

ATP

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The sheer military might of the Imperium simply cannot be overcome. Remember, it is often said that if the Imperium could concentrate its forces, it would win.

It is a truly galactic empire whilst the Federation is basically puny.

But personally, I'm not sure if they'd come to blows. The Imperium is beset on all sides and deploying a Crusade is a Hell of an ask, but I think it would be more of a case of the two being honestly baffled by each other. You'd have a long period of the two diplomatically prodding at each other (that the Federation is willing to do diplomacy would be mind blowing to the Imperium) which may result in the Imperium taking the Federation under its wing.

Remember, the Imperium of Man is not evil, just desperate. I think Starfleet would see that as well.
Depend.If Federation prove,that they are capable of being as brutal as IoM/for example,use teleports to move shit in IoM soldiers heads,or use stealth spaceships to teleport antimater warheads on IoM spaceships void schields/
They could made IoM wary of war,and agreed to peace.
 

Husky_Khan

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They are sent into the edges of the Sigmentum that isn't shrouded in darkness.
The entire Federation as of the most recent time in current and old media.

Bonus: the mirror universe

Edit: Federation do not have access to anything they have not produced on large enough scale to fight a war with.

So one time miracle technobabble that has only appeared in a single episode and never mentioned is out.

I don't want to have to mention this but I do.

Same for saying the DAoT Imperium somehow pulls out all thier stuff from then and uses it. They don't trust it because Choas took over the AI...
If they are on the edges they might be okay. Warhammer is apparently home to lots of independent alien and even Human polities that aren't part of the Imperium only they are so insignificant as to not be mentioned in lore because Franchise writers in general are incredibly myopic. Plus you had dudes like the Kroot and later Tau doing stuff and still existing despite the significant power disparity. You even have Imperial Governors doing shady shit all the time, like selling slaves to the Dark Eldar and whatnot and getting away with it for years etc.

The main disadvantage would actually be the Federation's size IMHO since it would be hard to hide them in obscurity on the periphery.

I don't see any hostility coming from the Federation in regards to the Imperium of Man. The Prime Directive is one thing, but also the Federation would recognize the Imperium of Man being a giant sponge for aggression is probably helping the transposed Federation survive such a hostile new host galaxy.

Federation's survival isn't guaranteed by any means. I'm sure if the Imperium of Man wanted to, they could crush the Federation. But whether they'd expend the effort to do so is up in the air in my humble opinion. They always have lots of concerns and that's the reason why the Tau are still around, Imperium get distracted by other more pressing issues. The main threat I see to the Federation in totality is probably Chaos and since they're on the edge, the Tyranids. The former is kind of a... "meta" threat regarding corruption and the like, while the Tyranids would be a more direct threat and honestly I don't see the Federation solving the issue of a Hive Fleet carving through their territory.

Other issues, like the Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks and whatnot I feel can be mitigated and survived by the Federation as a whole... and a smaller, more centralized and dense Federation would actually be more beenficial to their survival IMHO. The Federation would likely lose a lot of peripheral territory due to their lack of immediate militarization and slow FTL travel and just getting familiar with everything. But if they survive the first years or whatever to get acclimated and aren't swallowed by the Tyranids or falling to Chaos, I could see the Federation as some minor power hanging around the periphery of the galaxy. Some of the overlooked Alien races might even be more open to joining the Federation. They're actually more accepting and palatable to many aliens then the Tau Imperium is IMHO. And if the Imperium tolerates their existence to one degree or another, then commerce can take place via smuggling and Rogue Traders and the like.

The Imperium might even find some fringe benefits in the existence of the Federation for accessing niche technologies and maybe using them as a counterweight for other issues and adversaries in that area.
 

Zachowon

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If they are on the edges they might be okay. Warhammer is apparently home to lots of independent alien and even Human polities that aren't part of the Imperium only they are so insignificant as to not be mentioned in lore because Franchise writers in general are incredibly myopic. Plus you had dudes like the Kroot and later Tau doing stuff and still existing despite the significant power disparity. You even have Imperial Governors doing shady shit all the time, like selling slaves to the Dark Eldar and whatnot and getting away with it for years etc.

The main disadvantage would actually be the Federation's size IMHO since it would be hard to hide them in obscurity on the periphery.

I don't see any hostility coming from the Federation in regards to the Imperium of Man. The Prime Directive is one thing, but also the Federation would recognize the Imperium of Man being a giant sponge for aggression is probably helping the transposed Federation survive such a hostile new host galaxy.

Federation's survival isn't guaranteed by any means. I'm sure if the Imperium of Man wanted to, they could crush the Federation. But whether they'd expend the effort to do so is up in the air in my humble opinion. They always have lots of concerns and that's the reason why the Tau are still around, Imperium get distracted by other more pressing issues. The main threat I see to the Federation in totality is probably Chaos and since they're on the edge, the Tyranids. The former is kind of a... "meta" threat regarding corruption and the like, while the Tyranids would be a more direct threat and honestly I don't see the Federation solving the issue of a Hive Fleet carving through their territory.

Other issues, like the Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks and whatnot I feel can be mitigated and survived by the Federation as a whole... and a smaller, more centralized and dense Federation would actually be more beenficial to their survival IMHO. The Federation would likely lose a lot of peripheral territory due to their lack of immediate militarization and slow FTL travel and just getting familiar with everything. But if they survive the first years or whatever to get acclimated and aren't swallowed by the Tyranids or falling to Chaos, I could see the Federation as some minor power hanging around the periphery of the galaxy. Some of the overlooked Alien races might even be more open to joining the Federation. They're actually more accepting and palatable to many aliens then the Tau Imperium is IMHO. And if the Imperium tolerates their existence to one degree or another, then commerce can take place via smuggling and Rogue Traders and the like.

The Imperium might even find some fringe benefits in the existence of the Federation for accessing niche technologies and maybe using them as a counterweight for other issues and adversaries in that area.
I think the big issue is AD mech and Mars would not be happy eitj new tech.
I mean, they would but also wouldn't.

And the Imperium eventually deals woth the people that sell thier people into dark eldar slavery
 

Crom's Black Blade

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The Imperium is also willing to virus bomb planets and exterminatus if the planet can not be saved.
The Federation has the similar General Order 24 where a Starship will destroy the entire inhabited surface of a planet should the situation warrant it. As well the Federation on accident has destroyed more than one planet or even a star once so if pressed they can certainly match the Imperium in that regard.

In addition to the aforementioned factors that would allow them to better deal with Chaos.

Nurgle and all the Choas Gods do are a game.
Well if the Chaos Gods are content to play their game why would that change in regards to the Federation?

How would the Federation deal with pirates of the Eldar and the Dark Eldar?
Honestly I think Orks would be the bigger problem. Eldar/Dark Eldar raids might be a nuisance but I don't think either race has the resources or inclination to focus on fighting the Federation.

There are also many unknowns such as how well Eldar ships, which IIRC make heavy use of stealth and decoy tactics, can fool Federation sensors. Or wild cards factors like the Federation potentially developing cloaking technology of their own since there is no treaty forbidding their use in this galaxy.
 

UberIguana

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The Eldar (dark or otherwise) might be less of an issue than you might expect. If Federation space has overwritten whatever was there before that means no local webway gates. They'll have to come in the slow way.

The Tyranids might actually be the least threatening of all the major factions. Their FTL is slow even by Trek standards (it can take them decades to move between systems), so lots of time to pick them apart with raiding fleets. Tyranid FTL also works by manipulating the gravity of a target star, creating a spatial distortion that compresses space - something Trek sensors would almost certainly notice. The fact it relies on the target system's gravity sounds like something ripe for technobabble solutions.

It's not clear exactly where 'the edges of the Segmentum that isn't shrouded in darkness' is, but I'm assuming somewhere on the edge of Segmentum Tempestus, since that's the one that's both on the edge of the galaxy and doesn't have any of the Cicatrix Maledictum in it. The Tau are irrelevant, they're tens of thousands of lightyears away, though there are plenty of other unknown minor alien factions for them to meet. Looking at some of the maps, there is a hive fleet infiltrating up from beneath the galactic plane along about two thirds of the edge of Segmentum. They might not be close enough to get hit, but one good genestealer infestation could draw a splinter fleet's attention. No major Chaos or Ork activity in the area, though there are bound to be some of them running around. There are a couple of small Necron realms dotted along the edge of the Segmentum, so they might be a problem. Biel-Tan is in the same Segmentum, though not too close to the edge.

Remember the timeframes involved with the Imperium doing anything. If the Federation doesn't replace a bunch of their worlds it could take decades for them to bump into them, if they ever do (unprompted, anyway). This means first contact will likely be done by the Federation, since they're not going to let a little thing like switching galaxies get in the way of exploration. This gives the Federation a degree of initiative when dealing with the IoM. Local xenos are impossible to say anything about, though the fact the Federation has a lot of humans could cause misunderstandings, given past experiences.

Remember, the Imperium of Man is not evil, just desperate. I think Starfleet would see that as well.
I'd describe the Imperium as more indifferent than anything. As long as their goals are met they don't care who or how many suffer for it. Throw in massive amounts of bureaucratic rot and corruption and you have the mess that is the IoM.
 

Lord Sovereign

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It's not clear exactly where 'the edges of the Segmentum that isn't shrouded in darkness' is, but I'm assuming somewhere on the edge of Segmentum Tempestus, since that's the one that's both on the edge of the galaxy and doesn't have any of the Cicatrix Maledictum in it. The Tau are irrelevant, they're tens of thousands of lightyears away, though there are plenty of other unknown minor alien factions for them to meet. Looking at some of the maps, there is a hive fleet infiltrating up from beneath the galactic plane along about two thirds of the edge of Segmentum. They might not be close enough to get hit, but one good genestealer infestation could draw a splinter fleet's attention. No major Chaos or Ork activity in the area, though there are bound to be some of them running around. There are a couple of small Necron realms dotted along the edge of the Segmentum, so they might be a problem. Biel-Tan is in the same Segmentum, though not too close to the edge.
Segment Tempestus would not be a fun place to be. Aside from all the piracy, that’s Raven Guard turf. The moon of Deliverance is not far from the edge at all, Cretacia is close enough to be a concern (homeworld of the Flesh Tearers). Then of course there’s Inwit, which remains a major recruiting ground of the Imperial Fists.

Even worse, this is where Krieg is located: perhaps the foremost War World of the Imperium.

The Federation best tread lightly when they go exploring. Startling the Two Headed Eagle would be a very bad idea indeed. And that’s if, by some Warp touched bit of bad luck, there isn’t a Black Templar Crusade Fleet prowling around.

I'd describe the Imperium as more indifferent than anything. As long as their goals are met they don't care who or how many suffer for it. Throw in massive amounts of bureaucratic rot and corruption and you have the mess that is the IoM.
The Imperium absolutely does care. When it can it will evacuate civilians to the best of its ability (Astartes chapters are no unknown to help in such operations). The problem is it is a galaxy spanning empire without quantum entanglement technology. Such a behemoth requires a truly monumental amount of beauracracy to function, and given that the Empire of a Million Worlds has been held together for ten thousand years, with no Primarchs or Emperor, it is clearly doing a damn spectacular job.
 

The Whispering Monk

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Side effect: will the nature of this Galaxy and the influence of the Warp prevent the FTL communications of the Federation.

If it does, the Feds are going to have big problems from start while they try and deal with it.
 

Zachowon

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The Federation has the similar General Order 24 where a Starship will destroy the entire inhabited surface of a planet should the situation warrant it. As well the Federation on accident has destroyed more than one planet or even a star once so if pressed they can certainly match the Imperium in that regard.

In addition to the aforementioned factors that would allow them to better deal with Chaos.



Well if the Chaos Gods are content to play their game why would that change in regards to the Federation?



Honestly I think Orks would be the bigger problem. Eldar/Dark Eldar raids might be a nuisance but I don't think either race has the resources or inclination to focus on fighting the Federation.

There are also many unknowns such as how well Eldar ships, which IIRC make heavy use of stealth and decoy tactics, can fool Federation sensors. Or wild cards factors like the Federation potentially developing cloaking technology of their own since there is no treaty forbidding their use in this galaxy.
Because they see new humans that arnt protected by the Emps and have fresh should for the taking.


I honestly think Chaos would he the biggest threat to non Starfleet. Like the planets of the Federation more so then ships.


First contact definitely would probably be between Imperium more then anything.


Thiugh how would if they were placed in Nihilus be any diffrent from Tempestus?
 

Zachowon

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I figured the Tyranids would also rate up there as a threat to the Federation. An intergalactic Hivemind that can adapt to local circumstances and will eat all organic material on a planet. How would the Feds counter an invasion of a Federation world?
Trchnobabble of the week?
It seems they have a counter for everything according to everyone here
 

Agent23

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I figured the Tyranids would also rate up there as a threat to the Federation. An intergalactic Hivemind that can adapt to local circumstances and will eat all organic material on a planet. How would the Feds counter an invasion of a Federation world?
I think genestealers infiltrating them might be the biggest short-term problem unless they are right in the path of a hive fleet.

First and foremost, the primary danger will come form Chaos.

So many faithless humans possessing some interesting tech will be a tempting target for Chaos, especially if they may pose a threat sue to some of their schizotech's possible alternative uses and capabilities.

I am pretty sure that something like the appearance of the Federation out of nowhere will not go unnoticed by the various psykers, sorcerers and other weirdos with Warp precog that can be found often among the ranks of the Lost and the Damned.
 

Crom's Black Blade

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Because they see new humans that arnt protected by the Emps and have fresh should for the taking.
That presupposes the God-Emperor meaningfully protects the souls of his subject from corruption. The existence of the very human Interex, who did not worship or serve the Emperor, would suggest it isn't the Emperor or faith in him that allows humanity to survive in the 40k galaxy.

I honestly think Chaos would he the biggest threat to non Starfleet. Like the planets of the Federation more so then ships
To an extent, certainly it would be a threat. However the Federation society seems ill-suited for creating the conditions that promote cultists with there being no slums of disgruntled masses to tempt with dark power or over-bearing, egotistical lords with grandiose ambition to twist to Chaos's own ends.

First contact definitely would probably be between Imperium more then anything.
Most likely the Imperium or the Orks since those two are the most widespread and omnipresent factions.
How would the Feds counter an invasion of a Federation world?
Since IIRC hive fleets use a target world's gravity to draw them towards it over a duration of possibly years Starfleet likely would learn to detect this strange gravimeteric disturbance and follow it back towards the hive fleet then proceed to harass and skirmish them slowly whittling them down over time.
 

Agent23

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That presupposes the God-Emperor meaningfully protects the souls of his subject from corruption. The existence of the very human Interex, who did not worship or serve the Emperor, would suggest it isn't the Emperor or faith in him that allows humanity to survive in the 40k galaxy.



To an extent, certainly it would be a threat. However the Federation society seems ill-suited for creating the conditions that promote cultists with there being no slums of disgruntled masses to tempt with dark power or over-bearing, egotistical lords with grandiose ambition to twist to Chaos's own ends.



Most likely the Imperium or the Orks since those two are the most widespread and omnipresent factions.


Since IIRC hive fleets use a target world's gravity to draw them towards it over a duration of possibly years Starfleet likely would learn to detect this strange gravimeteric disturbance and follow it back towards the hive fleet then proceed to harass and skirmish them slowly whittling them down over time.
Again, you do not understand Chaos.

Slum dwellers and criminals are far from the only people who made up the initial pool of heretics.
Chaos is about strong emotions and the desire to excel, to go beyond what you could do,go watch Arch's video on Slaanesh/the reviews of the HH books dealing with the Emperor's Children.
You will understand.
 

Crom's Black Blade

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Again, you do not understand Chaos.
Again? Forgive me but I think this is the first time you've directly spoken to me on this subject. If you have and I missed, my apologies of course.

Chaos is about strong emotions and the desire to excel, to go beyond what you could do,go watch Arch's video on Slaanesh/the reviews of the HH books dealing with the Emperor's Children.
Wouldn't it make more sense to actually read the HH books? For myself I've read Fulgrim, the first three Horus books in addition to several Cain's books and a smattering of various other Imperial guard novels. I've also read a couple of the codexes, mostly IG ones admittedly since that faction holds most of my interest. And while technically Warhammer fantasy and not 40k, I've also read "In the Palace of the Plague Lord" which focuses heavily on Chaos.

If anything I'd say Chaos is about corruption rather than strong emotions persay, as opposed to the Warp itself which was mutated into its current state by strong emotions caused by the War in Heaven. Slaanesh, She who thirsts, is the perversion of love into lust. Khorne is bravery and courage into mindless violence. Nurgle is determination and steadfastness to this blackpilled despair. And of course Tzeentch is hope for a better future turned to a bitter nothingness of ever shifting, amorphous change.

Certainly any person can be tempted by one or more of these as they all occupy basic aspects of humanity. But not everyone tempted necessarily falls nor does merely being ambitious or brave or in love mean you'll become an enslaved servant. Otherwise the Imperium would have long since fallen.

Slum dwellers and criminals are far from the only people who made up the initial pool of heretics.
Well for starters you appear to be misquoting me since I didn't claim it was just "slum dwellers" who fell to Chaos. I specific also mentioned the overbearing lords who also fall prey to Chaos influence.

Second I at no point claimed either of the above were the sole people who could fall to Chaos. And indeed pointed out that Chaos would be a threat that the Federation would have to deal with. My point was that the Federation is far less fertile ground for Chaos than a random Imperial world. I would add that the fact the Federation would view the Chaos gods as merely aliens not unlike the Q would also help. Its citizens would be more inclined to view them with a suspicious, rational eye.

I hasten to add that again, that doesn't mean there won't be cults or that people can't be hoodwinked. Chaos can be quite manipulative when it sets it mind too it. Merely that the Federation infection of Chaos per thousand people is likely to be lower than the Imperium's.

By "initial pool of heretics" I assume you mean those that sided with Horus, or immediately preceded his fall like the Word Bearers. In which case, absolutely they were more than just slum dwellers. But they also didn't just fall merely by simply existing or having emotions. Horus was lead down the path due to being given a dark vision of the future by Erebus while healing in the warrior lodges of Davin after being wounded by one of the Interex's cursed swords preying not so much on the existence of Horus's emotions but his insecurities. The Emperor's Children were corrupted by entering into a demonic temple and Fulgrim taking a daemon infused sword as a trophy which corrupted their zeal for perfection into hedonistic excess. And the World Bearer's fell because the God-Emperor rejected the divinity they bestowed upon him setting Logar on the path of finding Gods who would be more willing.

None of the above seems likely to be a major concern for a random Federation world.
 

Agent23

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Again? Forgive me but I think this is the first time you've directly spoken to me on this subject. If you have and I missed, my apologies of course.



Wouldn't it make more sense to actually read the HH books? For myself I've read Fulgrim, the first three Horus books in addition to several Cain's books and a smattering of various other Imperial guard novels. I've also read a couple of the codexes, mostly IG ones admittedly since that faction holds most of my interest. And while technically Warhammer fantasy and not 40k, I've also read "In the Palace of the Plague Lord" which focuses heavily on Chaos.

If anything I'd say Chaos is about corruption rather than strong emotions persay, as opposed to the Warp itself which was mutated into its current state by strong emotions caused by the War in Heaven. Slaanesh, She who thirsts, is the perversion of love into lust. Khorne is bravery and courage into mindless violence. Nurgle is determination and steadfastness to this blackpilled despair. And of course Tzeentch is hope for a better future turned to a bitter nothingness of ever shifting, amorphous change.

Certainly any person can be tempted by one or more of these as they all occupy basic aspects of humanity. But not everyone tempted necessarily falls nor does merely being ambitious or brave or in love mean you'll become an enslaved servant. Otherwise the Imperium would have long since fallen.



Well for starters you appear to be misquoting me since I didn't claim it was just "slum dwellers" who fell to Chaos. I specific also mentioned the overbearing lords who also fall prey to Chaos influence.

Second I at no point claimed either of the above were the sole people who could fall to Chaos. And indeed pointed out that Chaos would be a threat that the Federation would have to deal with. My point was that the Federation is far less fertile ground for Chaos than a random Imperial world. I would add that the fact the Federation would view the Chaos gods as merely aliens not unlike the Q would also help. Its citizens would be more inclined to view them with a suspicious, rational eye.

I hasten to add that again, that doesn't mean there won't be cults or that people can't be hoodwinked. Chaos can be quite manipulative when it sets it mind too it. Merely that the Federation infection of Chaos per thousand people is likely to be lower than the Imperium's.

By "initial pool of heretics" I assume you mean those that sided with Horus, or immediately preceded his fall like the Word Bearers. In which case, absolutely they were more than just slum dwellers. But they also didn't just fall merely by simply existing or having emotions. Horus was lead down the path due to being given a dark vision of the future by Erebus while healing in the warrior lodges of Davin after being wounded by one of the Interex's cursed swords preying not so much on the existence of Horus's emotions but his insecurities. The Emperor's Children were corrupted by entering into a demonic temple and Fulgrim taking a daemon infused sword as a trophy which corrupted their zeal for perfection into hedonistic excess. And the World Bearer's fell because the God-Emperor rejected the divinity they bestowed upon him setting Logar on the path of finding Gods who would be more willing.

None of the above seems likely to be a major concern for a random Federation world.
As I have said repeatedly, Chaos afflicts those that wish to excel and to go beyond their capabilities and petty things like traditions and morality the most.
Anger, ambition, and other forms of obsessive behavior are what drives would be cultists.
Various types of elites looking for more power, sicentists and artists looking for more freedom, hedonists looking for a bigger, better high.

Your analysis is wrong.
 

Crom's Black Blade

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As I have said repeatedly, Chaos afflicts those that wish to excel and to go beyond their capabilities and petty things like traditions and morality the most.
My analysis is based on on the event and examples from the books of the series. Now we can certainly disagree and argue over interpretation. I won't pretend I am some expert on Chaos who's read every book it appears in but I feel I am familiar enough on the subject to speak broadly of it.

We clearly disagree on the matter. We can accept that we do and move on to other things or we can attempt to discuss why we've come to such different opinions. But if that is to be the case you are going to have to delve a lot deeper than the very surface level, short worded statements of yours.

For starters, it would be appreciated if you addressed the "initial pool of heretics " and how they fell. Few if any fell simply for wishing to excel or having ambition. Indeed I can think of one artist in the novel "Fulgrim" who despite wishing to excel at his craft didn't turn to the Chaos precisely because he didn't go down to the planet and visit the Laer's temple. Suggesting that while emotions can be twisted by Chaos they alone are not enough to ensure you enslavement to them.
 

Agent23

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My analysis is based on on the event and examples from the books of the series. Now we can certainly disagree and argue over interpretation. I won't pretend I am some expert on Chaos who's read every book it appears in but I feel I am familiar enough on the subject to speak broadly of it.

We clearly disagree on the matter. We can accept that we do and move on to other things or we can attempt to discuss why we've come to such different opinions. But if that is to be the case you are going to have to delve a lot deeper than the very surface level, short worded statements of yours.

For starters, it would be appreciated if you addressed the "initial pool of heretics " and how they fell. Few if any fell simply for wishing to excel or having ambition. Indeed I can think of one artist in the novel "Fulgrim" who despite wishing to excel at his craft didn't turn to the Chaos precisely because he didn't go down to the planet and visit the Laer's temple. Suggesting that while emotions can be twisted by Chaos they alone are not enough to ensure you enslavement to them.
How fun, mine is, as well, and on stuff like the Garro books and a bunch of other HH and regular 40k, including Eisenhorn, Necromunda, the Fabius Bile novels, the Ahriman series and Sandy Mitchell's inquisition books, a lot of the Cain books and a number of short story collections, like the one with the short stories focused on Chaos, the series was ... of the Space Marines, I think.

Chaos works best on people with big egos and big ambitions and obsessive tendencies, the only reason why the underclasses of various shithole planets are often used as pawns by chaos and join Chaos cults.

They do so because of the actual structure of the Imperium, where there is a lot of scrutiny aimed at the upper and middle echelons, from social pressure to conform and take part in religious rites and be a good subject, to the Inquisition's ever watchful eye and the Ecclsiarchy and the Sororitas Orders Famulous and Commissars and all of the Sanctioned Psykers that work for them and the various other corrective and espionage forces that are at the Lords of Terra's beck and call, like the Minotaurs there is a very, very good reason why "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded" is part of a litany, because the liberal and the open-minded planets of the Dark Age of Technology were overrun by rogue psykers, aliens and other Chaotically-influenced entities.That is even part of the lore.The entire social structure of the Imperium has been built up and evolved towards resisting Chaos Corruption.
Simply put, the underhives and mutant and abhumen dens are the places where it can go undetected most easily because of the lax supervision, and even with all of that there are still all the corrupted space marines and Inquisitors and Planetary nobility and governors and merchants that always crop up.


You do not understand Chaos, and the Federation is the perfect breeding ground for it, with its innate weaknesses that are reminiscent of Humanity during the DAoT, their peacenick and anti-theist and pinko commie tendencies make them even an easier target.
 
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