So...NATO is expanding...

[ATP]

Well, looks like the Kurds/Rojava is getting thrown under the bus to get Erdy to ok Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

Something tells me any good will the US/West had left with the YPG and friends is gone.

And,since Turkey do not manage to genocide all Kurds like they did with armenians,they would hate USA for centuries now.
Good for anybody to see how USA treat allies - they would certainly sell us to Moscov for help against China.
Well,they would arleady did so,but...Putin want China stronk.
Long live Putin,i quess.When he die,USA would sell us in heartbeat.

 

[Marduk]

And,since Turkey do not manage to genocide all Kurds like they did with armenians,they would hate USA for centuries now.
Good for anybody to see how USA treat allies - they would certainly sell us to Moscov for help against China.
Well,they would arleady did so,but...Putin want China stronk.
Long live Putin,i quess.When he die,USA would sell us in heartbeat.

That's just a completely random theory of your own, with little very substance.
For one only delusional people would think another KGB man would be very different from the previous. So not USA, only France, Germany, and the rest of the club who don't mind the current KGB man but have to pretend they do for appearances.
Secondly, the current war is changing the strategic calculations. The myth of competent and functional Russian army was destroyed, and the army will leave this war weaker than it was at the start. So how much is the help of that army worth after all, or worse yet, a promise of its help, with how untrustworthy the KGB men are?

 

[ATP]

That's just a completely random theory of your own, with little very substance.
For one only delusional people would think another KGB man would be very different from the previous. So not USA, only France, Germany, and the rest of the club who don't mind the current KGB man but have to pretend they do for appearances.
Secondly, the current war is changing the strategic calculations. The myth of competent and functional Russian army was destroyed, and the army will leave this war weaker than it was at the start. So how much is the help of that army worth after all, or worse yet, a promise of its help, with how untrustworthy the KGB men are?

I hope,that you are right.
But,Germany have old tradition of supporting Moscov,and even now they are still Putin allies.
France hate USA more then they love France.
And democrats have old tradition of making deals with Moscov and selling us to them.

 

[Bacle]

Erdy really wants to be able to dictate domestic policy to any new NATO members when it comes to the Kurds.

Shame the Turkish military isn't the old 'coup if idiot tries shit or fucks up' organization it used to be.

 

[Marduk]

Erdy really wants to be able to dictate domestic policy to any new NATO members when it comes to the Kurds.

Shame the Turkish military isn't the old 'coup if idiot tries shit or fucks up' organization it used to be.

TBH that's one thing the old military would approve of.

 

[Zachowon]

Finland probably will say fuck the PKK

 

[bintananth]

TBH that's one thing the old military would approve of.

I wouldn't be surprized if the current Turkish military leadership basically said "fuck this guy we want Finland and Sweden as allies" ... before initiating a coup.

 

[King Arts]

I wouldn't be surprized if the current Turkish military leadership basically said "fuck this guy we want Finland and Sweden as allies" ... before initiating a coup.

Yeah, you are obviously too retarded to do politics, or military strategy. Here is the thing to Turkey the Kurds are a problem because they are potential secessionists. A nation losing territory is one of the worst things ever, so a group that is trying to do that is a pretty big problem to a nation. Finland and Sweden are not good allies if they help groups that want to do that to you. So no even the secular Turkish military and not just Erdogan's stooges would consider blocking and fucking over Sweden and Finland, because an alliance with them would be useless, or even detrimental since they could pass off your secrets and betray you to rebel groups inside your territory.

 

[Marduk]

Its a pretty awkward, complicated situation. Its as if some NATO country gave political support to IRA or Basque separatists, except the scale of the problem is bigger (Kurds lay claim to more or less a quarter of Turkey's territory depending on the mood and have foreign claims on top of that for extra trouble), and on the other hand Turkey isn't angels either and they don't treat Kurds very well. Though again, not surprising after decades of guerilla warfare.

 

[Bacle]

 

[Arch Dornan]

Erdogan ever the opportunist. I'd say more but it might constitute a slur and I mean it not hatefully but in acceptance of his position of fuck you got mine Turks first especially my Turks and screw those trouble making Kurdish separatists kind of position.

 

[Tiamat]

Erdogan ever the opportunist. I'd say more but it might constitute a slur and I mean it not hatefully but in acceptance of his position of fuck you got mine Turks first especially my Turks and screw those trouble making Kurdish separatists kind of position.

He’s partly an opportunist….also another jackass with delusions of grandeur of “rebuilding” the Ottoman Empire. Sadly not the only one pining for the “glory days” either.

 

[Marduk]

As far as Erdogan diplomacy goes, this is perfectly normal. Remember the migrant crisis deal?
If there was no pressing threat pushing the other side towards his demands, it wouldn't be Erdogan diplomacy.
And here are the current demands:

Turkey issues list of demands to Finland and Sweden over Nato accession

Window of opportunity to find compromise is narrowing ahead of Nato’s Madrid summit on June 29th

www.irishtimes.com

All Kurd related political, law enforcement and military exports stuff.

 

[Skallagrim]

Yet more proof that, contrary to what some people here think, Turkey is a hostile power that should not be in NATO.

The talk about "B-but then they'll ally with our enemies!" is pure stupidity. They are already in league with our enemies. They are an enemy. And enemies should be outside the gates, not inside.

 

[Arch Dornan]

He’s partly an opportunist….also another jackass with delusions of grandeur of “rebuilding” the Ottoman Empire. Sadly not the only one pining for the “glory days” either.

Thanks to his unique position in the Mediterranean as the hub between east and west he has quite the bargaining strength. Which means he'll stick around for an opportunity as a slimebag politician is wont to do. The Lira's still inflating after all.

 

[Marduk]

Yet more proof that, contrary to what some people here think, Turkey is a hostile power that should not be in NATO.

The talk about "B-but then they'll ally with our enemies!" is pure stupidity. They are already in league with our enemies. They are an enemy. And enemies should be outside the gates, not inside.

Not really, its downright reasonable compared to their shenanigans with Greece or migrants really. He could be asking for heaps of money, F-35's and EU membership, yet he only asks f or actually relevant things.
What country would have a different attitude if it was in their place?

If there was a major militant separatist movement in USA that was trying to secede few states worth of territory into an independent probably communist country, and if Mexico or Canada was sheltering this movement's VIPs while giving them freedom to fundraise and recruit on their territory, what kind of attitude would USA be giving to this country? Would it allow that country in NATO?

And we aren't even necessarily talking bullshit accusations here, because both USA and the EU recognize PKK as a terrorist organization.

 

[King Arts]

As far as Erdogan diplomacy goes, this is perfectly normal. Remember the migrant crisis deal?
If there was no pressing threat pushing the other side towards his demands, it wouldn't be Erdogan diplomacy.
And here are the current demands:

Turkey issues list of demands to Finland and Sweden over Nato accession

Window of opportunity to find compromise is narrowing ahead of Nato’s Madrid summit on June 29th

www.irishtimes.com

All Kurd related political, law enforcement and military exports stuff.

In general I’m of the opinion fuck the Turks. But that’s for mostly historical reasons not because the nords.

Yet more proof that, contrary to what some people here think, Turkey is a hostile power that should not be in NATO.

The talk about "B-but then they'll ally with our enemies!" is pure stupidity. They are already in league with our enemies. They are an enemy. And enemies should be outside the gates, not inside.

Curious what country are you from? Why do you see Sweden as a worthy ally to let in? NATO exists for the benefit of the nations within it right now not to help other nations by bringing them in. Bringing in other nations is fine if we like them politically and they can contribute and are worth it. Why is it worth it for NAT soldiers to die for Sweden, or Ukraine? That’s what an alliance means if they are attacked you put your life at risk. If Sweden was invaded in could support giving them weapons like we do to Ukraine to bleed the aggressor, but why do more?

 

[Marduk]

Curious what country are you from? Why do you see Sweden as a worthy ally to let in? NATO exists for the benefit of the nations within it right now not to help other nations by bringing them in. Bringing in other nations is fine if we like them politically and they can contribute and are worth it. Why is it worth it for NAT soldiers to die for Sweden, or Ukraine? That’s what an alliance means if they are attacked you put your life at risk. If Sweden was invaded in could support giving them weapons like we do to Ukraine to bleed the aggressor, but why do more?

Its a smart question to ask, but the answer of why NATO officers say yes takes a map to explain.

These 3 spots are of extreme importance to the question of who controls the Baltic Sea, as one can place a whole lot of sensors, SAM and AShM launchers on these.
And Gotland is literally the central one. Imagine what happens if Russia was to take it. Baltics are kinda screwed as far as getting reinforcements from NATO by air or sea goes, and they are in NATO already.

 

[King Arts]

Its a smart question to ask, but the answer of why NATO officers say yes takes a map to explain.

These 3 spots are of extreme importance to the question of who controls the Baltic Sea, as one can place a whole lot of sensors, SAM and AShM launchers on these.
And Gotland is literally the central one. Imagine what happens if Russia was to take it. Baltics are kinda screwed as far as getting reinforcements from NATO by air or sea goes, and they are in NATO already.

Hmm, this is a semi decent reason. But do you really need islands to control the baltic? Can't we put up SAM batteries, and sensors on the coast of Poland which will be in the baltic? I've been generally opposed to letting Sweden in for two reasons The first is that the Swedes are liberal, they are ridiculously SJW I feel letting them in is more dangerous than allowing Islamic theocracies like Iran in. The second issue is that I feel many liberal westerners are being racist by showing favoritism towards northern europeans. They want to protect Sweden even though it's not in NATO far more than they would want to protect actual NATO members in eastern Europe, like Poland, or in Southern Europe like Greece. So I feel a kind of fuck you attitude towards those assholes.

 

[Zachowon]

Hmm, this is a semi decent reason. But do you really need islands to control the baltic? Can't we put up SAM batteries, and sensors on the coast of Poland which will be in the baltic? I've been generally opposed to letting Sweden in for two reasons The first is that the Swedes are liberal, they are ridiculously SJW I feel letting them in is more dangerous than allowing Islamic theocracies like Iran in. The second issue is that I feel many liberal westerners are being racist by showing favoritism towards northern europeans. They want to protect Sweden even though it's not in NATO far more than they would want to protect actual NATO members in eastern Europe, like Poland, or in Southern Europe like Greece. So I feel a kind of fuck you attitude towards those assholes.

Uh if Article 5 is called we protect who ever called it equally