SCOTUS Getting Shade Over Roe v Wade

the more the country litterally burns this summer the stronger the red wave gets.

I want soccer moms and grill boi's to get to the point where they are no longer afraid but angry very angry.
give it time, the fools will dig their own ditch. Though it is still best to aid and prevent the damage they will cause.
 
the more the country litterally burns this summer the stronger the red wave gets.

I want soccer moms and grill boi's to get to the point where they are no longer afraid but angry very angry.
give it time, the fools will dig their own ditch. Though it is still best to aid and prevent the damage they will cause.
Expect them to use 'we need to expand the court to re-instate RvW' as a rallying cry for the midterms.

And the scary thing is, it might actually work; far easier for the Dems to cheat when their base if fired up and willing to do anything to 'fix' something the GOP did.
 
That's not how I would frame the moral question, actually. It's more like, "If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"

I would say no, because you do not have the right to kill another human being.
Since Abhorsen's not getting through, let me try something simpler:

"Is it okay to enslave a woman for nine months if that is the only way to save a human life?"
 
Wife buys into the leftists narrative on the Roe v Wade so gonna be a fun conversation
U married?:oops:
No one is "enslaving" women.
I dont have strong opinions either way but forcing or coercing someone to do something for someone else's sake when they dont want to do so and when they in no way willingly played part in the act that led her to being forced too live with the consequences is the definition of a form of slavery.

Not saying the child should be aborted but let's not kid ourselves and presume that this is in anyway a pleasant or morally right situation for the mother.

Honestly I just want artificial womb tech to get off the ground and make it redundant.
 
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That's not how I would frame the moral question, actually. It's more like, "If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"

I would say no, because you do not have the right to kill another human being.
I would say it depends entirely on whether you consented to the situation, which your question doesn't capture. So if we frame it like this:

"If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, and you didn't consent to this situation, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"

I would say yes. But to this:

"If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, and you did consent to this situation, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"
I would say no.

Since we agree on the second, what do you say to the first?
The baby isn't making a choice to occupy the womb, it's incapable of making any choice. The only person who has a choice, physically, is the mother. She doesn't have the right to make a choice that would directly kill the unborn child. Because no human has the arbitrary right to kill another human being; that is evil and wrong and should be illegal.
No, the baby didn't have a choice. But just because you weren't given a choice doesn't mean you have a right to be someplace.

So the life of the unborn child doesn't matter. Then why restrict abortion at all? Why does the life of the child not matter here, but suddenly matter if the sex was consensual? It's in her body either way.
Because if the mother consented to sex, she already made a choice. Basically, both the baby and the mother own themselves. In a world where that is all the baby owns, then abortion would be fine, as the babies bodily autonomy is not violated (it would be extracted whole, then an almost certainly failing attempt at keeping it alive would probably be made).

But in addition to the baby's ownership of itself, the baby also has a claim to the mother's womb until birth by virtue of the mother consenting to sex with the possibility of procreation that lead to the baby. This would be violated by the process in the above paragraph, hence why we should ban abortions from consensual sex

But in a rape case, the baby has no right to occupy the womb. So the mom's right to bodily autonomy doesn't come into conflict with anything the baby owns. And so it is morally permissible.

No one is "enslaving" women.
You are forcing them to do things they didn't consent to. It's close.

Again:
"If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, and you didn't consent to this situation, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"
I say yes. You?
 
Expect them to use 'we need to expand the court to re-instate RvW' as a rallying cry for the midterms.

And the scary thing is, it might actually work; far easier for the Dems to cheat when their base if fired up and willing to do anything to 'fix' something the GOP did.
Honestly, I don't see them being able to do it. They KNEW that RvW and its follow on cases were house of cards shit decisions (RBG herself admitted to this multiple times) that were only kept alive through keeping enough leftist activists and golden mean fallacy waffles on the court to continually 'uphold' it. They'd have to get the court's makeup changed which would mean 2 justices, then they'd need to get an actually 'solid' case up the vine to that SCOTUS since another case based on fantasy and shameless at the time perjury forcing abortion would be a catastrophe near or at the level of Dredd Scott.

The only way I think they force abortion on the whole country again now is through Congress and the President.
 
I would say it depends entirely on whether you consented to the situation, which your question doesn't capture. So if we frame it like this:

"If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, and you didn't consent to this situation, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"

I would say yes. But to this:

"If someone is physically dependent upon you in order to remain alive, and separating them from you would kill them, directly result in their death, and you did consent to this situation, do you then have the right to separate from them and in the process by necessity kill them?"
I would say no.

Since we agree on the second, what do you say to the first?

I don't think consent on your part in the situation makes a difference to whether or not you have the right to kill another human being, no.

No, the baby didn't have a choice. But just because you weren't given a choice doesn't mean you have a right to be someplace.

It has a right to not be killed.

Because if the mother consented to sex, she already made a choice. Basically, both the baby and the mother own themselves. In a world where that is all the baby owns, then abortion would be fine, as the babies bodily autonomy is not violated (it would be extracted whole, then an almost certainly failing attempt at keeping it alive would probably be made).

But in addition to the baby's ownership of itself, the baby also has a claim to the mother's womb until birth by virtue of the mother consenting to sex with the possibility of procreation that lead to the baby. This would be violated by the process in the above paragraph, hence why we should ban abortions from consensual sex

But in a rape case, the baby has no right to occupy the womb. So the mom's right to bodily autonomy doesn't come into conflict with anything the baby owns. And so it is morally permissible.

It's not a matter of the mother and the baby "owning" anything. It is an axiomatic principle that the unjust killing of another human being is wrong and should be illegal, and that is the basis for saying that killing an unborn child is wrong and should be illegal, regardless of its current location or whatever decisions led to its current location.

Since you like analogies, here's one. Let's say you buy an uninhabited, desert island. You fly out to it, burn your plane, and want to live there alone for the rest of your life. One day though, a sailor washes up on the island. Their boat sank in a storm and through no fault of their own, they ended up here. But, it is your island, this sailor has no right to it. You have a gun; is it morally permissible to shoot the sailor so you don't have to share the island with them?

You are forcing them to do things they didn't consent to. It's close.

The only thing I am doing is preventing the mother from killing another human being. The person with the moral responsibility of forcing this situation upon a woman is the rapist.
 
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Honestly I just want artificial womb tech to get off the ground and make it redundant.

I think artificial womb tech has the potential to be a disaster.

Do you really want to hand the power over to the state to create humans?

I'd argue that there are legitimate reasons for someone to get an abortion. But as far as I can tell, they are only justifiable (at all) if they are

  1. Early, within several weeks.
  2. The product of rape.
  3. The child is not viable, including hampered with mental disabilities.
  4. For the safety of the mother.
They're not so bitches can abort babies because they're mad at the father, they're not for women who want to protect their reputation for sleeping around, and they're not for women who don't like the gender of their baby.
 
I don't think consent on your part in the situation makes a difference to whether or not you have the right to kill another human being, no.
See, I do. We are just going to have to agree to disagree here.

It has a right to not be killed.
No, it wasn't killed. It was extracted, and they failed to save it's life.

It's not a matter of the mother and the baby "owning" anything. It is an axiomatic principle that the unjust killing of another human being is wrong and should be illegal, and that is the basis for saying that killing an unborn child is wrong and should be illegal, regardless of its current location or whatever decisions led to its current location.
See, it isn't a killing the way I put it. It's extracting and failing to save.

Since you like analogies, here's one. Let's say you buy an uninhabited, desert island. You fly out to it, burn your plane, and want to live there alone for the rest of your life. One day though, a sailor washes up on the island. Their boat sank in a storm and through no fault of their own, they ended up here. But, it is your island, this sailor has no right to it. You have a gun; is it morally permissible to shoot the sailor so you don't have to share the island with them?
It's morally acceptable to kick them off. You should do it in the least harmful way possible, so if you got a way off like a boat, give them a ride off. But if there is no way off the island, then yes, you can tell them to go swim and if they don't, shoot them.

The only thing I am doing is preventing the mother from killing another human being. The person with the moral responsibility of forcing this situation upon a woman is the rapist.
A person who keeps a slave in bondage holds responsibility. You, by forcing the rape victim to carry to term, hold responsibility for that.
 
Expect them to use 'we need to expand the court to re-instate RvW' as a rallying cry for the midterms.

And the scary thing is, it might actually work; far easier for the Dems to cheat when their base if fired up and willing to do anything to 'fix' something the GOP did.
So what. It’s not popular. It never was and it never will be.

I just paid $4.93 per gallon for gas and was happy because it was a “deal.” Abortion is not going to change that. That’s the big deal now. I can afford it poor people can’t.

Them raging and burning things isn’t going to make people change their minds.
Furthermore, if they do that, Biden and non crazy Democrats know they have two choices.
Let them burn building and churches and get punished for that.
Because there is no Trump to restore order and protest against.

Or call out the guard to restore order. Then be faced with the face of admitting to normal people their base is nuts.
 
So what. It’s not popular. It never was and it never will be.

I just paid $4.93 per gallon for gas and was happy because it was a “deal.” Abortion is not going to change that. That’s the big deal now. I can afford it poor people can’t.

Them raging and burning things isn’t going to make people change their minds.
Furthermore, if they do that, Biden and non crazy Democrats know they have two choices.
Let them burn building and churches and get punished for that.
Because there is no Trump to restore order and protest against.

Or call out the guard to restore order. Then be faced with the face of admitting to normal people their base is nuts.

Well, I guess we'll see, but I don't get the feeling that a riot is forthcoming. Usually the left likes to hide behind things like racial issues, because it makes it impossible for the right to call them out on their behavior, because white antifa terrorists will hide behind black people and declare it racist. And pro-abortion stance is more popular with white people than black.

You also have to keep in mind that 2020 was also when lockdowns started kicking into place. People were feeling frightened, isolated, and wanted to lash back against the world. It was easier to rile people up then than it would be now, for something that doesn't directly affect them.
 
Go read up on Nancy Scheafer.

The reason why they will never tackle it is because CPS agents.make so much money seizing kids from good homes and selling them that they murdered a sitting Senator in her own home to prevent reform. After she released a report on their criminal activity.
Could you elaborate on this even if it needs to go in a different thread?
 
Well, I guess we'll see, but I don't get the feeling that a riot is forthcoming. Usually the left likes to hide behind things like racial issues, because it makes it impossible for the right to call them out on their behavior, because white antifa terrorists will hide behind black people and declare it racist. And pro-abortion stance is more popular with white people than black.

You also have to keep in mind that 2020 was also when lockdowns started kicking into place. People were feeling frightened, isolated, and wanted to lash back against the world. It was easier to rile people up then than it would be now, for something that doesn't directly affect them.
Not major rioting but some by idiots. Biden was just on the news saying “violence will not be tolerated.” Because he sees what the crazies are up too. While people rightly call him senile. He is the a career politician. He can still see signs and the how wind is blowing.
Unfortunately for him the crazies you mentioned are attacking churches. That’s not a good a look. They were also stupid enough to start hitting Congressional offices.
If you take anything from Jan 6, it’s when you attack the people that matter, the middle class, Congress critters, etc things get real quickly.
The abortion thing is something would be a good mid term issue any other time or a Presidential election issue. There are two problems.
Gas is 5 dollars a gallon, inflation is high and the WhiteHouse doesn’t know how to handle it.
 

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