Russian-Ukrainian-Polish Eternal Friendship Thread

Militarily they wont. I can assure you
Which is why both Russia and China pursue tactics that rely on economic and political pressure and power, not military force.

They know the US military is itching for a fight to soothe it's bruised ego and pride after the A-stan fuck up. They also know that economics, politics, and media power will do far more in modern times to set the conditions for 'victory', not military planners.

You know that too, but like to pretend that military might is the end all, be all of international relations/competitions.
 
The US promised that NATO expansion would stop and that a unified Germany will not be part of it - lie.
The US sided with Kosovo and damaged Serbia, a close Russian ally.
The US pushed for more economic liberalism in Russia and kept Yeltsin aloft.
The US destabilized the world with numerous useless interventions.
The US invaded Iraq, destabilized Syria, Libya(Countries with closer ties to Russia than the west) and Egypt(Egyptians elected a religious fanatic as president, then the US interfered again, because democracy is only democracy when the US likes the outcome), and even allied itself with AQ, you know, those terrorists behind 9/11 adn created ISIS.
Some in Russia also blame various islamist insurgencies within the former USSR on the Americans and their good allies, the Turks and the Saudis.
The US has supported various fringe morons within Russia and within Russian allies that want to oust the current leadership and in the view of the Russians bring back the bad old days of the 90s.

Where did the US promise that a unified Germany would not be a part of NATO?

I do agree that NATO might have been a little too eager to bomb Serbia in 1999 and that it was not a genuinely honest broker in these peace talks:


Yeltsin in Russia was superior to Zyuganov.

Invading Iraq was good for the Iraqi people in the long(er)-run, but Yeah, the Syria, Libya, and Egypt interventions were not useful. TBH, I don't get Hillary Clinton's hawkishness on Syria.
 
Invading Iraq was good for the Iraqi people in the long(er)-run, but Yeah, the Syria, Libya, and Egypt interventions were not useful. TBH, I don't get Hillary Clinton's hawkishness on Syria.

Doesn't really have anything to do with the original question of Russia being a short term enemy or Russo-American Relations, especially in regards to the topic of this thread though. I do find the repeated rants on the same subject somewhat amusing though. :p
 
Doesn't really have anything to do with the original question of Russia being a short term enemy or Russo-American Relations, especially in regards to the topic of this thread though. I do find the repeated rants on the same subject somewhat amusing though. :p

Russia and the US could have had a confrontation in Syria had Hillary Clinton won in 2016.
 
What War With Russia Would Look Like, by Scott Ritter

What would a conflict between Russia and NATO look like? In short, not like anything NATO has prepared for. Time is the friend of NATO in any such conflict—time to let sanctions weaken the Russian economy, and time to allow NATO to build up sufficient military power to be able to match Russia’s conventional military strength.​
Russia knows this, and as such, any Russian move will be designed to be both swift and decisive.​
First and foremost, if it comes to it, when Russia decides to move on Ukraine, it will do so with a plan of action that has been well-thought out and which sufficient resources have been allocated for its successful completion. Russia will not get involved in a military misadventure in Ukraine that has the potential of dragging on and on, like the U.S. experience in Afghanistan and Iraq. Russia has studied an earlier U.S. military campaign—Operation Desert Storm, of Gulf War I—and has taken to heart the lessons of that conflict.​
One does not need to occupy the territory of a foe in order to destroy it. A strategic air campaign designed to nullify specific aspects of a nations’ capability, whether it be economic, political, military, or all the above, coupled with a focused ground campaign designed to destroy an enemy’s army as opposed to occupy its territory, is the likely course of action.​
Given the overwhelming supremacy Russia has both in terms of the ability to project air power backed by precision missile attacks, a strategic air campaign against Ukraine would accomplish in days what the U.S. took more than a month to do against Iraq in 1991.​
On the ground, the destruction of Ukraine’s Army is all but guaranteed. Simply put, the Ukrainian military is neither equipped nor trained to engage in large-scale ground combat. It would be destroyed piecemeal, and the Russians would more than likely spend more time processing Ukrainian prisoners of war than killing Ukrainian defenders.​
For any Russian military campaign against Ukraine to be effective in a larger conflict with NATO, however, two things must occur—Ukraine must cease to exist as a modern nation state, and the defeat of the Ukrainian military must be massively one-sided and quick. If Russia is able to accomplish these two objectives, then it is well positioned to move on to the next phase of its overall strategic posturing vis-à-vis NATO—intimidation.​
While the U.S., NATO, the EU, and the G7 have all promised “unprecedented sanctions,” sanctions only matter if the other side cares. Russia, by rupturing relations with the West, no longer would care about sanctions. Moreover, it is a simple acknowledgement of reality that Russia can survive being blocked from SWIFT transactions longer than Europe can survive without Russian energy. Any rupturing of relations between Russia and the West will result in the complete embargoing of Russian gas and oil to European customers.​
There is no European Plan B. Europe will suffer, and because Europe is composed of erstwhile democracies, politicians will pay the price. All those politicians who followed the U.S. blindly into a confrontation with Russia will now have to answer to their respective constituents why they committed economic suicide on behalf of a Nazi-worshipping, thoroughly corrupt nation (Ukraine) which has nothing in common with the rest of Europe. It will be a short conversation.​
If the U.S. tries to build up NATO forces on Russia’s western frontiers in the aftermath of any Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia will then present Europe with a fait accompli in the form of what would now be known as the “Ukrainian model.” In short, Russia will guarantee that the Ukrainian treatment will be applied to the Baltics, Poland, and even Finland, should it be foolish enough to pursue NATO membership.​
Russia won’t wait until the U.S. has had time to accumulate sufficient military power, either. Russia will simply destroy the offending party through the combination of an air campaign designed to degrade the economic function of the targeted nation, and a ground campaign designed to annihilate the ability to wage war. Russia does not need to occupy the territory of NATO for any lengthy period—just enough to destroy whatever military power has been accumulated by NATO near its borders.​
And—here’s the kicker—short of employing nuclear weapons, there’s nothing NATO can do to prevent this outcome. Militarily, NATO is but a shadow of its former self. The once great armies of Europe have had to cannibalize their combat formations to assemble battalion-sized “combat groups” in the Baltics and Poland. Russia, on the other hand, has reconstituted two army-size formations—the 1st Guards Tank Army and the 20th Combined Arms Army—from the Cold War-era which specialize in deep offensive military action.​
Even Vegas wouldn’t offer odds on this one.​
Sherman will face off against Ryabkov in Geneva, with the fate of Europe in her hands. The sad thing is, she doesn’t see it that way. Thanks to Biden, Blinken and the host of Russophobes who populate the U.S. national security state today, Sherman thinks she is there to simply communicate the consequences of diplomatic failure to Russia. To threaten. With mere words.​
What Sherman, Biden, Blinken, and the others have yet to comprehend is that Russia has already weighed the consequences and is apparently willing to accept them. And respond. With action.​
One wonders if Sherman, Biden, Blinken, and the others have thought this through. Odds are, they have not, and the consequences for Europe will be dire.​

I think that "Nazi-worshipping" to single out Ukraine specifically is VERY excessive considering that some other European countries, such as the Baltic countries and Hungary, also have a tendency to whitewash various Nazi collaborators, such as Miklos Horthy. I do agree that Ukraine's Bandera fetishism is problematic, but this isn't actually a problem that's unique to Ukraine out of all European countries.

Anyway, I've got a proposal: Have Ukraine be neutral but also allow Ukraine to develop its own nuclear weapons and a viable delivery system for them in order to safeguard its neutrality. But I doubt that Russia would actually accept that, which suggests that it's not Ukrainian NATO membership per se that is the problem here.
 
JP Morgan has dropped investments in the Ruble.

Then24 said:
The organization, which manages assets of 2.6 trillion dollars, put an end to the Russian currency due to unpredictable risks of the development of the situation around Ukraine. At the same time, the bank admitted that it had previously underestimated the danger and, as a result, suffered losses on such investments.

A year ago, JP Morgan’s ruble positions were above the market. However, the spring aggravation on the border between Russia and Ukraine forced the bank’s analysts to reconsider their positions. However, they expected ruble-related risks to subside and President Joe Biden to be hesitant to impose serious economic sanctions on Moscow.

At the beginning of 2022, the bank admitted that they could no longer ignore negative scenarios, and therefore all previous recommendations about long investments in the ruble were no longer valid.


More like truble.... ;)

I'll go now...

Oh wait... also some hacktivist group calling themselves the "Cyber Partisans" (clever name I know) claimed to have hacked the Belarussian Railroad Computer Networks to interfere with Russian troop deployments and to put pressure on the government to release 50 political prisoners who are in need of medical care.

Yahoo Finance said:
The Cyber Partisans, a network of activist hackers that aims to overthrow Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko’s regime, said it had targeted state-owned Belarusian Railway and encrypted the majority of the company’s servers, databases and workstations. A spokesman for the group said in an interview with Bloomberg News that the hackers were in the process of destroying a large amount of data held on a backup server.

 


Glenn's well off base on this.

Medicare for all would cost like 35 trillion dollars over the next ten years, the total defense budget for the same period would be 10 trillion at most.

And we already spend several hundred billion a year on defense, it's a lot easier to find a few billion more dollars to bump that up a bit than it is to find 3.5 trillion dollars for completely new spending.
 
Glenn's well off base on this.

Medicare for all would cost like 35 trillion dollars over the next ten years, the total defense budget for the same period would be 10 trillion at most.

And we already spend several hundred billion a year on defense, it's a lot easier to find a few billion more dollars to bump that up a bit than it is to find 3.5 trillion dollars for completely new spending.
Where did you get the 35 trillion for Medicare for All?

Just to be clear I do not support Medicare for All, and think the ACA was one of the dumbest things the US has done domestically. I just am skeptical anytime someone tries to put a hard number on how much it would cost to attempt Medicare for All.

However the point about always finding more funds for military procurement, when there are civilian domestic issues that need funding just as much.

Trying to find a new war/conflict to put the US military in however does seem to be something that unites the neocon and neolib establishment, regardless of domestic issues.
 
Where did you get the 35 trillion for Medicare for All?

Just to be clear I do not support Medicare for All, and think the ACA was one of the dumbest things the US has done domestically. I just am skeptical anytime someone tries to put a hard number on how much it would cost to attempt Medicare for All.

However the point about always finding more funds for military procurement, when there are civilian domestic issues that need funding just as much.

Trying to find a new war/conflict to put the US military in however does seem to be something that unites the neocon and neolib establishment, regardless of domestic issues.
You do know the things they cut first for the military are the pat right?
 
You do know the things they cut first for the military are the pat right?
I do not think that is true, historically; some bases getting closed or units being deactivated is not the first thing the US gov to meet budgets.

The first thing is does is raid Social Security, the second thing it does is raise taxes on the middle class, and the third thing it does is take funds from the Dept of the Interior and Nat' Parks.

Cutting funds in the military area is usually a separate fight over interbranch funding issues, not a civie funding vs military funding debate.
 
I do not think that is true, historically; some bases getting closed or units being deactivated is not the first thing the US gov to meet budgets.

The first thing is does is raid Social Security, the second thing it does is raise taxes on the middle class, and the third thing it does is take funds from the Dept of the Interior and Nat' Parks.

Cutting funds in the military area is usually a separate fight over interbranch funding issues, not a civie funding vs military funding debate.
Okay it isnt THAT true. THey do make sure that there are less people needed so less reenlistment and more people getting put in the streets because they have to changfe life plans.
Themilitary downsizes first and foremost before it closes bases.

And, the military is the most important thing our country has.
 
Where did you get the 35 trillion for Medicare for All?

Just to be clear I do not support Medicare for All, and think the ACA was one of the dumbest things the US has done domestically. I just am skeptical anytime someone tries to put a hard number on how much it would cost to attempt Medicare for All.

The Eye-Popping Cost of Medicare for All

These figures might be off by a few trillion, but regardless of the exact figure Medicare for all would be extremely expensive (as evidenced by the fact that the margin of error is measured in trillions of dollars).
 
The Eye-Popping Cost of Medicare for All

These figures might be off by a few trillion, but regardless of the exact figure Medicare for all would be extremely expensive (as evidenced by the fact that the margin of error is measured in trillions of dollars).
Peanuts, last time I checked the Wars on Terror cost over 6 trillion, and that was years ago.
The price tag is probably close to 10, now.

A lot of that money "disappeared" into the pockets of contractors, check out "The Wrong Enemy" I think it was called, by some writer for the NY times.

 
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