Nord Stream 1 and 2 Attacked

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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Just don't tell them that when they're freezing their asses in winter as they're forced to pay twice the price of Russian gas.
they were warned repeatively.
It is in our nature to cry foul despite suffering the consequences but in their case their government can't make the choice of their big brother to stick to.
Germany won't be freezing their ass's off, they have plenty of wood burning stoves still, lots of lumber, their natgas supplies were 85% full in August, and the new pipeline from Norway to the mainland is delivering a new supply of gas to Europe.

Russia's attempt to freeze out Germany completely and utterly backfired, and they've lost their last remaining bit of leverage over Germany after they blew these pipes and have continued to push gas through them so they cannot be repaired.
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Germany won't be freezing their ass's off, they have plenty of wood burning stoves still, lots of lumber, their natgas supplies were 85% full in August, and the new pipeline from Norway to the mainland is delivering a new supply of gas to Europe.

Russia's attempt to freeze out Germany completely and utterly backfired, and they've lost their last remaining bit of leverage over Germany after they blew these pipes and have continued to push gas through them so they cannot be repaired.
That will be for the average people over there to say.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Just don't tell them that when they're freezing their asses in winter as they're forced to pay twice the price of Russian gas.
They need a reality check anyway, and it's best that it comes under a socialist government :D. Might get them to also stop thinking so much about how the sausage heat is made and kick the green nutjobs in the ass while at it. After all green nutjobs's feels are the reason why they need so much gas. Could have used more nukes and coal without that factor.
 
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Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
They need a reality check anyway, and it's best that it comes under a socialist government :D. Might get them to also stop thinking so much about how the sausage heat is made and kick the green nutjobs in the ass while at it. After all green nutjobs's feels are the reason why they need so much gas. Could have used more nukes and coals without that factor.
That will take time. People in general conform to the mainstream of what their country tells them to until the bubble bursts. The well off won't feel it but the bottom will and then it'll go up top to them because of their displeasure and suffering assuming their state of the economy heads that way despite assurances.
 

DarthOne

☦️
They need a reality check anyway, and it's best that it comes under a socialist government :D. Might get them to also stop thinking so much about how the sausage heat is made and kick the green nutjobs in the ass while at it. After all green nutjobs's feels are the reason why they need so much gas. Could have used more nukes and coal without that factor.

That would indeed be a really good thing to come from this mess.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
they have plenty of wood burning stoves still, lots of lumber
Not really, the prices of firewood doubled and are still climbing. Even if Germany was willing to deforest entire country, they simply do not have enough skilled workforce to do it. Not to mention that firewood has to be dried for three to six months before it can be used in stove. Thanks to the invisible hand of the market, most of lumber in EU is sold to China, wood reliant industries were pressuring EU for years to put limits on lumber exports, with no success. EU firewood market was thus reliant on BiH, Serbia and Ukraine, the first two limited exports of lumber, while in Ukraine most lumberjacks are soldiers now, so deforestation of the country is put on hold for now.

their natgas supplies were 85% full in August

And they will cover 35-40% of the autumn and winter needs.

and the new pipeline from Norway to the mainland is delivering a new supply of gas to Europe.

Delivers fraction of needs and there is no indication any significant amount will go to Germany

USA's attempt to fuck over Germany completely and utterly succeeded,

Absolutely.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Not to mention that firewood has to be dried for three to six months before it can be used in stove.

For optimal efficiency. You can burn green wood, it's just not as efficient, and will kick out a lot more steam.

And they will cover 35-40% of the autumn and winter needs.

At normal rates of expenditure perhaps. Their economy is going to be completely borked, but 'getting through the Winter without mass die-offs' is a very different question than 'at regular economic and heating activity.'
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
You can burn green wood
Sure, if you want to die of carbon monoxide poisoning

Their economy is going to be completely borked,
That is the main intent, breaking German economy breaks the Euro as well, removing it as secondary exchange currency, solidifying American economic dominance over Western world. The hardships the German people will have to endure are only a side bonus to the elites.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
...What? Where are you digging this idea up from? Old wives tales?

Bad ventilation is what can cause serious issues, not how green or dry the wood is.
He's not wrong. It's not so much an old wives tale as extremely well known fact.

Smoldering fires, such as green wood, produce vastly more carbon monoxide.

Green firewood in general gives no real heat return anyway. For every 3% more moisture you lose about 10% of your net heat. So green wood pretty much yields almost nothing. On top of that, burning green wood dramatically increases creosote buildup inside the chimney, which leads to a massive fire hazard and even more carbon monoxide. There's a reason green firewood is on every "Do not ever put this in your stove or fireplace" list ever.

 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
He's not wrong. It's not so much an old wives tale as extremely well known fact.

Smoldering fires, such as green wood, produce vastly more carbon monoxide.

Green firewood in general gives no real heat return anyway. For every 3% more moisture you lose about 10% of your net heat. So green wood pretty much yields almost nothing. On top of that, burning green wood dramatically increases creosote buildup inside the chimney, which leads to a massive fire hazard and even more carbon monoxide. There's a reason green firewood is on every "Do not ever put this in your stove or fireplace" list ever.


I suppose I'm just used to thinking of 'green' wood as 'what we put in the woodshed earlier this year' as opposed to 'what we put in the shed last year' then.

Because I have never burned anything that caused anywhere near that much trouble.

Also, proper ventilation for your chimney is still the key to not getting carbon monoxide overload.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
..What? Where are you digging this idea up from? Old wives tales?

Green wood burns poorly and produces a lot more smoke and carbon monoxide. Since it produces a lot less heat than dry wood, chimney is not as effective, so carbon monoxide leaks into house. Not to mention that soot buildup greatly increases the risk of chimney fire. We have warnings to not burn green wood before every winter season.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I suppose I'm just used to thinking of 'green' wood as 'what we put in the woodshed earlier this year' as opposed to 'what we put in the shed last year' then.

Because I have never burned anything that caused anywhere near that much trouble.

Also, proper ventilation for your chimney is still the key to not getting carbon monoxide overload.
Proper ventilation for the chimney is actually the problem. Assuming they had the sense God gave a jackrabbit, whoever designed the chimney will have made it to handle the kind of smoke seasoned wood produces. As a result, a properly built chimney is highly non-optimal for the dense moisture-and-sap-laden smoke greenwood produces and will leak CO into the house and build up creosote. A chimney built to actually handle greenwood's issues won't burn seasoned lumber correctly so everybody who burns knows to only use seasoned lumber and avoid greenwood.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Proper ventilation for the chimney is actually the problem. Assuming they had the sense God gave a jackrabbit, whoever designed the chimney will have made it to handle the kind of smoke seasoned wood produces. As a result, a properly built chimney is highly non-optimal for the dense moisture-and-sap-laden smoke greenwood produces and will leak CO into the house and build up creosote. A chimney built to actually handle greenwood's issues won't burn seasoned lumber correctly so everybody who burns knows to only use seasoned lumber and avoid greenwood.

I'm used to taking wood stacked by August as 'this year's/green wood,' and wood stacked by last august as 'dry wood.'

That probably explains the discrepancy, given we generally didn't start burning until November, so grabbing from the wrong piles a few times meant that we had a few 3-6 month old wood burns instead of 15-18 month old wood.

Aside from that I've only ever burned completely green wood in campfires.

Like a lot of lumberjack/wood related things I've generally just treated what my dad (an experienced logger) said as 'accepted wisdom' rather than looked everything up for myself.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Well, is Germany backstabbing half of its NATO and EU allies in favor of very shady economic connections with Russia a good thing? If it's a bad thing, then sabotaging it is a good thing.
If by backstabbing you mean, tried to sidestep the Balto-Polish-Ukrainian Russia Derangement Syndrome, keep it's industries supplies with cheap energy and keep it's foothold in a nearby market thst is over 150 million consumers strong and lives in the largest country on the planet then yeah, maybe, the only problem is they did not put the breaks on the whole ad nausium expansion of the EU and didn't have the backbone to demand the Minsk accords being upheld.
Or tell Vicky "Fuck the EU" Nuland and you, and the Ukrainians to go fuck yourselves.

Wanna know what I think is an even bigger betrayal?

You Poles and your lapdogs in Ukraine and the Baltics shilling for the USA and doing all sorts of deranged crap that damages the economy of the whole block, this includes dragging us all into a confrontation.

You are basically the modern equivalent of Serbia in 1914, and the Ukrainians are the Black Hand/Serb irredentists in Bosnia.

Keep on puking butwhataboutism thought, you are not fooling anyone, sound like a broken record and provide some entertainment.

It might be the US. I can believe the Biden Admin is stupid enough to do this.

However, assuming it is the US before clear evidence emerges, rather than one of any number of other actors who might have done it, that's just showing your bias.
Definition of SARCASM

No idea why I bother, though, if you haven't learned what it is by now then you are probably too dense for even the dictionary definition.
 
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LordsFire

Internet Wizard
If by backstabbing you mean, tried to sidestep the Balto-Polish-Ukrainian Russia Derangement Syndrome

Russia is actively invading a neighbor unprovoked, did so 8 years ago, has invaded others since, and has made noises about invading others and/or going nuclear.

There is no 'derangement' syndrome to this, Russia has proven itself to be a very real and very deadly threat.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Russia is actively invading a neighbor unprovoked, did so 8 years ago, has invaded others since, and has made noises about invading others and/or going nuclear.

There is no 'derangement' syndrome to this, Russia has proven itself to be a very real and very deadly threat.
Great, more whataboutism and ree Russia bad. :ROFLMAO:
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
If by backstabbing you mean, tried to sidestep the Balto-Polish-Ukrainian Russia Derangement Syndrome, keep it's industries supplies with cheap energy
What fucking cheap energy? Have you seen the electricity prices in Germany? Even before coronashit? They and other econutjobs had the highest prices in the whole fucking EU. They never had cheap energy, and they didn't want cheap energy anyway, if they wanted cheap energy they would start with telling their watermelons to shut up instead of letting them run their energy policy, not let Putin own their asses.
Lay off the RT propaganda for a moment please.
and keep it's foothold in a nearby market thst is over 150 million consumers strong and lives in the largest country on the planet then yeah, maybe, the only problem is they did not put the breaks on the whole as nausium expansion of the EU and didn't have the backbone to demand the Minks accords being upheld.
Oh my, well guess they would rather have some less extra consumers getting richer in an expanded EU, than access to more but poorer consumers under the condition of having to keep a whimsical el presidente happy and supporting him in all his crazy projects because he will keep trade relations hostage on that condition.
Better a sparrow in hand than a pigeon on the roof as they say.
Wanna know what I think is an even bigger betrayal?

You Poles and your lapdogs in Ukraine and the Baltics shilling for the USA and doing all sorts of deranged crap that damages the economy of the whole block, this includes dragging us all into a confrontation.
Why should we be loyal to a block that isn't loyal to us? Nordstream 2, remember? Didn't get built in a day.
Keep on puking butwhataboutism thought, you are not fooling anyone, sound like a broken record and provide some entertainment.
Lol, don't pop a vein.
 

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