Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
The Polish army fought bravely and were massacred, which was their fucking job, and the people of poland fought so hard the Nazis massacred them too.
History Myths and Misconceptions of History you Hate
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
- Start date
Thier people kept fighting, and were lead by Charles De Gual, and led the Free French forces from Africa to capturing Paris.
I'm just gonna stop arguing because they are not surrender monkeys, as they still fight bravely.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
The fact they have one is significant. Because only the US a country much more powerful has the rest.
The surrender was due to complex circumstances. Bad generalship, poor use of technology among other things. Countries have collapsed in worse ways in the past.
As for Vietnam-do you think they'd be able to hold it? With their empire in tatters? We couldn't win.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
At nowhere near the scale or intensity of the Poles, sure.
The fact that no one has a significant military besides the United States is significant. It's not a linear curve from #10 to #1. Consider that the united states was able to vaporize the 4th largest military on the planet at like, marching speed.
Chiefest of which is low testosterone.
No, because they were are are weak, both puny in scale and bad at fighting.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Also none of those chaps pulled a "Vichy" on us. They went down fighting whilst the French threw up the white flag to perhaps the most evil regime in history, when it still had Southern France to regroup in and the entire French Empire to call upon. Froggy high command screwed up, then willfully collaborated with the Nazis; France rightfully bears the shame whilst Henri IV weeps.
If the dead weep.
And in the british case well if you have to lose and empire losing it because you defeated one of the most evil regiemes in human history....not a bad note to end on.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
There are worse endings I suppose. And happily, it was an ending we could begin again from.
And the true france left the country only to fight from Africa back to Paris and Liberate Paris.
It is because people dont pay attention the the effort France did as the Free French
They weren’t the true France. True French colors showed in Vichy.
Most of the soldiers who evacuated Dunkirk went back to France. You’re taking on a lionized myth that doesn’t leave the French on the side of the Axis shortly after losing which they absolutely were. The government of France negotiated and made the terms they did and most French went along with it. People only pay attention to the effort of the Free French and the resistance. They ignore the collaborators and the governments surrender and assistance with the Nazis. They belong on the side of the Allies just slightly more than the Italians do in World War II.
Last edited:
Actually more people seem to remember the Vichey over the Free french.
Oh I know a lot went back to the government when it was over. I also know free french forces fought Vichey french in Africa, as well as the French Mavy being bombarded during the war.
People just forget that the Free French are the ones that liberated Paris forst, and the Amerocans came through after the city was liberated by the French
Yes and Italians killed Mussolini. Truly they were the greatest of the allied forces. Their major participation in the war came after the US, Britain, and literally everyone else in the world already shattered the German army. They joined in at the end.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
The idea that Operation Catapult was a gross betrayal. Never mind that the UK and France had a binding agreement that if the French pulled out of the war the French Navy would sail to UK controlled ports to ensure that the ships stayed out of the hands of the Germans and Italians. And let's not forget that it wasn't the UK's fault that the French Admiral at Mers-El-Kiber didn't tell his superiors his full list of options.(how he wasn't court marshalled and shot I don't know)
Last edited:
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
One that gets my goat is Captain William Bligh being treated as the villain in the famous mutiny on the Bounty, derived from people who get their history from schlock movies.
Bligh was a hero, and the greatest seaman who ever lived. No really, nobody has ever matched the feats of sailing Bligh pulled off. Based on purely feats accomplished Bligh is head and shoulders above everybody else in history who's ever put a boat in the water. And he did it while taking 1/12th of a pound of bread as the entire ration of food for the day for himself and his 18 loyal men (he was given 1 week's rations and stretched them to 47 days). Even people eating actual decent diets and with modern advantages cannot pull off the stuff that Bligh did. Did I mention that he did it with no maps or charts because he wasn't allowed any by the mutineers? Yeah, the man was straight up supernaturally good at sailing
But, says you, what's that have to do with him being a villain? He could be a great sailor and also an ass. Quite true, but Bligh is famous for one other thing in his career: being the nicest, kindest captain who ever sailed. He took great interest in the health of his crew, insisting on high standards of cleanliness and a regimen for healthy exercise. The logbook of the Bounty, when recovered, revealed that Bligh gave scoldings for misdemeanors other Captains had men whipped for, and gave whippings for things other captains hanged men for. Why the mutiny happened isn't clear, Fletcher Christian was a close friend of Bligh's and his personal protege, and Bligh noted during the betrayal that he had "Dandled my [Bligh's] children on your knee!" Fletcher himself is described in the records as appearing mentally unhinged, claiming that living on the ship was hell so there's that.
So yeah, a genuine humanitarian and the greatest sailor who ever lived, constantly painted as the devil by pop fiction. Irritating to say the least.
Bligh was a hero, and the greatest seaman who ever lived. No really, nobody has ever matched the feats of sailing Bligh pulled off. Based on purely feats accomplished Bligh is head and shoulders above everybody else in history who's ever put a boat in the water. And he did it while taking 1/12th of a pound of bread as the entire ration of food for the day for himself and his 18 loyal men (he was given 1 week's rations and stretched them to 47 days). Even people eating actual decent diets and with modern advantages cannot pull off the stuff that Bligh did. Did I mention that he did it with no maps or charts because he wasn't allowed any by the mutineers? Yeah, the man was straight up supernaturally good at sailing
But, says you, what's that have to do with him being a villain? He could be a great sailor and also an ass. Quite true, but Bligh is famous for one other thing in his career: being the nicest, kindest captain who ever sailed. He took great interest in the health of his crew, insisting on high standards of cleanliness and a regimen for healthy exercise. The logbook of the Bounty, when recovered, revealed that Bligh gave scoldings for misdemeanors other Captains had men whipped for, and gave whippings for things other captains hanged men for. Why the mutiny happened isn't clear, Fletcher Christian was a close friend of Bligh's and his personal protege, and Bligh noted during the betrayal that he had "Dandled my [Bligh's] children on your knee!" Fletcher himself is described in the records as appearing mentally unhinged, claiming that living on the ship was hell so there's that.
So yeah, a genuine humanitarian and the greatest sailor who ever lived, constantly painted as the devil by pop fiction. Irritating to say the least.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
The French were conducting and are conducting operations in Africa to this day. You didn't hear about that time they intervened in Mali did you?
Source, or are you just making shit up? There is a lot of scholarly work on the subject, more than I can summarize here. I'm guessing your engaging in nationalist chest thumping, which is all fine and good but should not be confused with serious historical understanding.
Tell that to the veterans who fought from 1965 to 1975. Or did you sleep through that part of history class? South Vietnam didn't win, and who backed the South?
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
That would absolutely grind my gears too. I'm glad he managed to reach land safely with all his loyal men alive. Still, as you say, in the age of sail that is one hell of a feat and he should be recognized for it. Indeed, a film about him and his men trying to make their way back to civilization could be gripping.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Unfortunately he didn't. Four of his loyal men were taken as slaves by Fletcher Christian because they had skills he thought he'd need on the boat. One was killed by hostile natives on the trip and several died of starvation, ironically after reaching land on the 4000 mile journey as they were so weakened they eventually perished.
On the flipside the mutineers got what was coming to them as well. Fletcher Christian used Bligh's name (Bligh was well respected in Tahiti) to take a large number of Tahitians as labor to build himself a new island home and his deception didn't end well. He was killed by six Tahitians who first shot him and then hacked him apart with axes. By the time the British found his fortress on Tubuai only one mutineer was left alive, all the others having killed each other or been killed by the natives they deceived. His brother Edward Christian eventually published his own version of events which is where the "Evil Bligh" meme came from.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Karma just seems to find a way in the end. A shame for all those men he led to their deaths, though.
I know this. I am mainly arguing that the Myth the French are a bunch of surrender monkeys is false.
What I find hilarious about that whole thing is the French leader who surrendered was the general from WW1 that won that war iirc.
Charles De Gaul rallied those that supported him and working in tandem with the allies, they took back France.
I know multiple operations in Africa where Free French forces were invovled, and Iirc multiple times the french fighters would join the Free French either at the end or when asked.
Yea even I know that it was not a gross betrayal and was a preplanned operation. I enjoy reading about it every now and then.
Thank you Invictus.
I was not going to bother arguing it, but France is still invovled in Mali and various places in Africa.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
I’d think that with today’s Far Left culture, they’ve long had stopped on the basis of “racism” and/or “imperialism” and returned to France where they disarm