Wargamer08
Well-known member
It’s basically saying that there is very little practical difference between them except how acceptable they are to their “side”.
Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes
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CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
Is this what a centrist meme looks like?
Wargamer08
Well-known member
No. It’s pretty basic, Antifa=Nazi. Left likes Antifa, while talking up how they hate Nazis. Right hates both.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
To clarify first: is your post meant as a joke?
Because the meme is quite obvious (and true). There is no practical difference between Nazis and Antifa. And yes, Antifa everywhere are fundamentally the same as Nazis: Nazis in Croatia worship Hitler and Pavelić and reject Stalin and Tito. Communists / Antifa worship Stalin and Tito while rejecting Hitler and Pavelić. Nazis make excuses for Jasenovac, while Antifa think that Goli Otok should be reopened. And so on.
Basically it's saying that Antifa and the Neo-Nazis are pretty much alike - but that the Left are fine with Antifa while the Right mostly rejects the Nazis.
Background context of course is that it's the Left who accuses anyone who opposes them of being a Nazi.
CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
You do realise antifa means anti fascists? There's no legal code for being anti-fascist, you don't need to beat up random people to dislike fascists. You don't need to beat up someone to be anti-something.
People who you call antifa are just leftists/anarchists. Unlike nazis/fascists who have a very strong ideological compass. And yes, my post was a joke. At least partly.
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It was fake from the beginning.Sralin made it before WW2 to fight Hitler,who was no fascist and fought /politically/ Mussolini till 1935 and even later.Sralin later becomed Hitler ally.
And current Antifa name themselves as such,but certainly are not Moscov puppets anymore,althought they were soviet tool till 1991.Somebody is paing their bills,but not Putin.Dunno who.
CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
I agree about Stalin and Hitler being allies, but sorry, why does it matter if he disagreed with Mussolini before? How does it still not make him fascist? Tell me who Hitler was after all if not fascist? Conservative? Lmao. He embraced core concepts of fascism, autocratic style of leadership, only one political party. Everything by the book.
Stalin just like everyone else from his party was a bloodthirsty butcher, autocratic piece of sh*t to the core. Of course he liked to sponsor everyone who was similarly aligned to him in Germany, but was at the same time stupid enough to think of Hitler as of ally. Stalin is the sole reason why WW2 happened after all, if not for him helping Hitler with resources, it wouldn't be how it was.
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CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
Ok, tell me, if i dislike Apple's dishonest business practices, does this mean i must worship Samsung and Google? From consumer point of view? No, so how do people who dislike fascism as a political ideology/political movement fit into framework of worshipping Stalin? It just hard for me to understand. You guys put labels and expect everyone to fit those, while world actually isn't turning around US politics.
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Antifa meaning antifascist is just marketing. Yes, they hate fascists, but also do all the same stuff fascists would, but mirrored. As a group, they do beat people up and destroy property, just different people and different property. This attempt to hide that "not all antifa" is hollow, just like claiming that not all nazis were involved in the Holocaust. Technically true, but they clearly self identified with a group that's totally fine with doing bad things, and is defined by the willingness to do bad things.
Hitler do not followed Mussolini pattern,he created his own political system,national socialism.With economy more controlled,and added racism.In Mussolini Italy you could have bussiness as long as you do not engage in politics,in Germany it practically was part of state plan of production.
Sralin was simply true beliver,he tried create communist state,which is impossible,and must lead to genocide.But - he do not genocided becouse he liked blood,but for idea.
And his idea of alliance with Hitler and then backstabbing him were great - unfortunatelly,Hitler betrayed him first.
CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
About Stalin's plans of betraying Hitler, whatever his plans were, they were ultimately selfish as he didn't cooperate with allies, it didn't work, and resulted into him helping Hitler. Regarding Hitler being national socialist, you know that he didn't need to strictly be like Mussolini to still build fascist state? You know how they call CCP's communism as communism with Chinese characteristics; What problem is for Hitler to make a state with main tenets of fascism practically, but adopt set of additional beliefs and principles he saw best for his country? Yup, that is exactly what he did. Still makes him fascist.
CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
Antifa is more of an idea really...
Is idea of disliking fascism good? Or at least neutral at it's core? Undoubtedly. Is idea of anti-fascism as of some kind of leftist neo marxist woke organisation as was interpreted on their site good? Well...
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
Originally Antifa were a pretty specific organization and not just a loose term for anti-fascists in general, they were a new streetfighting wing for the Communist Party of Germany (or KPD). This would be the same KPD that already tried a Bolshevik-style revolution in Germany before and literally worked with Hitler against the Weimar democrats for a while not because the latter enabled horrific degeneracy such as a deluge of child prostitution on the streets of Berlin, but because they were designated 'social fascists' by Stalin (to whom the KPD leadership were enthusiastic servants) and a greater enemy to the revolution than the more populistic Nazis at the time. Antifa's own degeneracy and extreme street violence (as well as that of its predecessor organization, the Rotfront, both against the Nazi SA and defenders of democracy such as the Reichsbanner Black-Red-Gold) directly contributed to the Nazis' rise to power in the first place, as well, as it made the German people willing to put up with Hitler as long as he annihilated the far-left thugs destroying their shops and assaulting their families and attacking them at their homes every other day.
Current Year Antifa are just following the proud traditions of the original Antifa. Ever seen one of Andy Ngo's 'faces of Antifa' exposes? The obvious drug addicts are the best and noblest of the bunch, more often you're dealing with criminals of various sorts like the three people Kyle Rittenhouse shot after they attacked him (a pedophile, a domestic abuser and a burglar in that order), the guy who stalked & murdered a Patriot Prayer member and was later thankfully brought to justice by the US Marshals, or the Something Awful poster who was recently arrested for shooting a Samoan Proud Boy after escaping a (firearms-less) brawl. Also like OG Antifa, the modern day ones are certainly no friends to anyone to the right of Mao Zedong regardless of how non-authoritarian they might be and 'liberals get the bullet too' is one of their mottos.
Stalin and Thalmann would be proud: as before, they're a riotous streetfighting horde comprised primarily if not entirely of the scum of society with no hope, no future, and nothing inside their shriveled-up hearts but a sadistic impulse to indulge in all manner of depravity & attack other people on the slightest of pretexts while feeling self-righteous about it. Because of that they can also be easily controlled and directed against the public enemy du jour by the people holding their purse strings, who incidentally also almost always cover for their criminal activity through corrupt local DAs and mayors (pretty much the only thing they can't yet get away with is blatant murder, and in that case it was because - as I said above - the Marshals got involved and pumped the assassin with lead after he idiotically tried to shoot his way out past them).
Current Year Antifa are just following the proud traditions of the original Antifa. Ever seen one of Andy Ngo's 'faces of Antifa' exposes? The obvious drug addicts are the best and noblest of the bunch, more often you're dealing with criminals of various sorts like the three people Kyle Rittenhouse shot after they attacked him (a pedophile, a domestic abuser and a burglar in that order), the guy who stalked & murdered a Patriot Prayer member and was later thankfully brought to justice by the US Marshals, or the Something Awful poster who was recently arrested for shooting a Samoan Proud Boy after escaping a (firearms-less) brawl. Also like OG Antifa, the modern day ones are certainly no friends to anyone to the right of Mao Zedong regardless of how non-authoritarian they might be and 'liberals get the bullet too' is one of their mottos.
Stalin and Thalmann would be proud: as before, they're a riotous streetfighting horde comprised primarily if not entirely of the scum of society with no hope, no future, and nothing inside their shriveled-up hearts but a sadistic impulse to indulge in all manner of depravity & attack other people on the slightest of pretexts while feeling self-righteous about it. Because of that they can also be easily controlled and directed against the public enemy du jour by the people holding their purse strings, who incidentally also almost always cover for their criminal activity through corrupt local DAs and mayors (pretty much the only thing they can't yet get away with is blatant murder, and in that case it was because - as I said above - the Marshals got involved and pumped the assassin with lead after he idiotically tried to shoot his way out past them).
CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
Ok, I'm just trying to say that anti-fascism as in the name, being anti-fascist is not bad, just like being democratic nowadays has nothing to do in practice with ancient greek politics and north korea. Like being pro slavery in current us doesn't mean you're a democrat, and vide versa.
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Circle of Willis
Well-known member
However nice it might sound on the surface, the term is loaded and tainted by its origins in & association with the extreme left starting with the anarchist and socialist-dominated Arditi del Popolo and similar factions in Italy, to the Antifaschische Aktion I was talking about, to present-day Antifa.
Think about it this way: mainstream liberal-democratic parties do not typically loudly describe themselves as anti-fascists at every possible turn. Why? Because it's already implicit, people know they're supposed to be anti-fascists by default and they don't have to boast about it or make claims all the time to ensure people remember that. So why do the people (who, being invariably far-leftists, have no respect for the democratic process and aren't exactly what come to most people's minds when you ask them about mainstream politics) howling about how anti-fascist they are all the time compelled to do so? Well, for starters they think it'll set them apart from historical fascist militias which basically did the same thing they're doing today, albeit usually with greater effectiveness and courage. (Seriously, modern Antifa have pretty much never stood their ground when faced with serious resistance and a lack of legal cover - they might be sadists but they're also quite cowardly)
Back then and now, if someone or a political faction has to trumpet its 'anti-fascism' it's pretty much always because 1) they know the rest of their (invariably far, far-left) platform sounds a lot less attractive to basically everyone who isn't them than a simple 'we bash the fash!' and 2) everyone to the right of Mao is a fascist to them, and they're justified in 'bashing the fash', ergo calling themselves 'anti-fascist' is code for 'we attack everyone who's a fascist, even small-time shopkeepers who mind their own business and vote for Republicans or moderate Democrats from time to time, for the sake of the Revolution'. You can compare it to the stereotype of the fiercely homophobic preacher who gets caught with a gigolo in an airport's bathroom or the anti-gun politician who gets caught leading an arms smuggling ring if you like.
CockyVampire67
Climate change denier
There's actually opposite, i think the louder their claims the better, because more attraction it gains, more spotlight are shined on what they do and why. There's absence of a fascism in a modern political landscape, i agree. But it doesn't mean fascism as an economical and even ideological base can't be attractive to politicians. I don't think if there's more of this word in our daily lives it would lose it's meaning (although i agree it's truly horrifying prospect), the problem will be when people would stop treating autocrats, dictatorships and fascists seriously. Just like the world now tries to ignore China, and allies largely ignoring Hitler's rise to power pre ww2, it can only lead to a grave consequences.
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
Well then we're going to have to disagree, because as far as I'm concerned having claims of anti-fascism be spouted by these thugs from the rooftops accomplishes nothing beyond further discrediting the term itself. As it's already done to a not-insignificant extent in the past - obviously Antifaschische Aktion's bold claims (and backing of those claims in the streets with any weapon they could find) did nothing to stop the rise of Hitler, and in fact accelerated it by convincing a growing share of the German electorate that maybe the Brownshirts weren't so bad in comparison to them.
I suspect Modern Antifa's shenanigans (like causing $500,000 in damages over a night of rioting in Portland a few nights ago) is doing the same, people just aren't bold enough to say they like the Proud Boys (for example, not to say they're comparable to the SA in any way other than being opposed to people calling themselves Antifa) yet because they still fear being smeared as a fascist themselves by the media and attacked at their home by Antifa with cover from the local DA & mayor. Maybe that'll change in a few years as Antifa, like any vicious brat that's never disciplined by their parents or other authority figures and so comes to consider themselves untouchable, inevitably makes its presence more and more unbearable.