LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

It is evil, a cure should have been developed in the form of neurocorrective medication and therapies..not..violent enabling for profit and idealogical reasons.

No. The patient in question did not need any neurocorrective medication or therapy, since he never identified as transgender in any way, shape, or form.

What happened in this single specific, highly unusual and distinctive case was that the patient was a normal male baby whose penis was accidentally damaged in a circumcision accident. The ironically named Dr. John Money -- who at that time was pretty much at the peak of his career, and was considered one of the leading experts on sex and gender --told the parents that their son would never be able to live a happy, normal life with his damaged penis, and that the best way to handle this was to apply what was at that time (and for quite a few decades to come) was the standard medical protocol for any infant judged at birth to be of ambiguous gender or otherwise intersex: surgically "correct" to female anatomical configuration and raise as female. It is important to understand that at this time, this was the completely uncontroversial treatment for intersex infants. The only unusual aspect in this case was that they were applying intersex -- not transgender, but intersex -- treatment to a damaged "normal male".

Conventional wisdom at that time -- and most conservative groups still argue that this is the proper and correct treatment -- was that an infant must be raised as a normal male or female; therefore if the physical sex was in any way ambiguous, the doctors should simply step in and assign a normal gender via surgical and hormonal treatment. Money simply took it one step further in saying that the same protocol should be applied to a male infant with a damaged penis. The modern protocol, which Money continued to oppose until he passed away in 2006, is to delay surgical and hormonal treatment until the infant is old enough to actually express a coherent gender identity.

----

Let me point out here that Money's argument actually goes completely against what trans people actually argue. Money argues that there is no such thing as an innate, fixed gender identity -- he argues that gender is entirely a social construct, so a baby's sex is whatever is surgically and hormonally assigned to that baby, and as long as upbringing is strictly consistent, the baby will grow up and follow their assigned gender with absolutely zero trauma, zero dysphoria, zero difference from any other baby with that gender.

That's why Money is against the modern "wait and see" protocol; he argues that there's nothing to wait for because there is no innate gender identity at all, and that any psychological trauma in the upbringing of an intersex child originates strictly from ambiguity in upbringing. This was, again, broadly accepted at the time, and is why under the "immediate intervention" protocols, the doctors often did not even tell the parents about any of it, simply marking off the child as female on the birth certificate and telling the parents they had a perfectly normal baby girl.

Money had absolutely nothing to do with "transgender identity politics" -- given his denial of an innate gender identity, his position is actually closer to that of anti-transgender feminists.
 
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This is basically a cope, also it's heinous of you to try AKKSHUALLY someone being forced to have simulated sex with his own sibling..that is rape..period.

"It totally wasn't rape! It was just simulated rape!" Good lord

I explicitly denounced it as wrong and disturbing. It is nonetheless important to be accurate about the actual facts of what actually happened and for what reasons.
 
Isn't HIV and AIDS only transferable certain bodily fluids?
Is that why Lesbians are less likely to have it over Gay men?
Yes.

When two lesbians have sex there is very little, if any, exchange bodily fluids*, while straight sex and gay sex without a condom always results in an exchange of bodily fluids due to things like microtears and the guy's ejaculation.

* About as much as French Kissing or cunnilingus, at most.
 
The most successful recipient of which, later killed himself because his benefactor was a depraved Groomer who made him fuck his own brother.
Well the hell did that come from?

One, the guy he's referring to was not a succesful case. It was a tragic one that is a warning that extreme caution is required when considering if gender reassignment is appropriate.

Second. Siblings, especially twin siblings, aren't going want to have sex with each other unless they don't know they're siblings.
 
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This isn't a safe conversation to have with you at all.

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I found his post at the top of the page pretty informative actually and I'm curious as to how it's factually wrong or misleading.

Ah I see you've edited, so if you fear that further discussion will end up in you getting banned I don't want to pressure you.
 
Money argues that there is no such thing as an innate, fixed gender identity -- he argues that gender is entirely a social construct, so a baby's sex is whatever is surgically and hormonally assigned to that baby, and as long as upbringing is strictly consistent, the baby will grow up and follow their assigned gender with absolutely zero trauma, zero dysphoria, zero difference from any other baby with that gender.
And his own experiment proved him wrong. Yet it still gets used to this day as "proof" of this being the case because he just knew he was male. Which ignores the fact that if gender truly were a social construct, then this experiment would have actually worked and this person would be alive and well and living as a woman.
 
And his own experiment proved him wrong. Yet it still gets used to this day as "proof" of this being the case because he just knew he was male. Which ignores the fact that if gender truly were a social construct, then this experiment would have actually worked and this person would be alive and well and living as a woman.
Exactly.

If you're a guy, you're a guy. If you're a gal, you're a gal. What's hidden by your underwear doesn't really enter into it.

If what your underwear hides doesn't match your physical sex, I'm all for saying gender reassignment is appropriate as long as you're absolutely sure and the doctors agree with you.
 
Exactly.

If you're a guy, you're a guy. If you're a gal, you're a gal. What's hidden by your underwear doesn't really enter into it.

If what your underwear hides doesn't match your physical sex, I'm all for saying gender reassignment is appropriate as long as you're absolutely sure and the doctors agree with you.
Except we don’t have the medical technology to do that. So you get people that under go these surgeries and don’t actually become what they want.
 
Just so, so they should stop offering lies as cure.
It's less lies and more that it's the best currently available and better than nothing.

Think of it in this manner: if you were a US Civil War casualty found on the field days after a battle would you rather be one of the ones who were told "nope, can't save you" and just left to die or one of the ones the very inadequate* medical profession of the day actually did try to save?

* By today's standards, among the best available in the 1860s.
 
Well the hell did that come from?

One, the guy you're referring to was not a succesful case. It was a tragic one that is a warning that extreme caution is required when considering if gender reassignment is appropriate.

Second. Siblings, especially twin siblings, aren't going want to have sex with each other unless they don't know they're siblings.
Actually I see it as a warning that circumcising people should be banned, except for maybe a religious exemption. After all if American doctors weren’t retards then there would be no need to have a debate about the kids gender.
 
And his own experiment proved him wrong. Yet it still gets used to this day as "proof" of this being the case because he just knew he was male. Which ignores the fact that if gender truly were a social construct, then this experiment would have actually worked and this person would be alive and well and living as a woman.

Again, Money's position isn't actually the pro-transgender position, and the pro-transgender position isn't that gender is purely a social construct. And for the record, I am aware of precisely zero cases where anyone pro-transgender cited this case as evidence of anything.

To the extent that anyone other than Money cited any of this, it was because Money falsely reported in the professional literature that the experiment was a complete success and that the patient *was* completely adjusted to a female identity with no problems whatsoever. And since patient confidentiality was a factor, no one was able to unearth the actual facts of the case until many years later when a journalist tracked down the patient and convinced him to actually go public with the true story. That pretty much nuked Money's career, although he continued to maintain to his dying day that the only reason anything went wrong was that the patient's parents were inconsistent in enforcing a "correct" gender role and then allowed the patient to transition to male.
 
You might want to edit your post then, because what it's actually showing is not a nested-quote of my response to him, but just his words falsely attributed to me.
I've edited it to say "he's" instead of "you're". Is that good enough?

I don't know how to do a nested quote here without potentially making a mess of TS's quote system.
 

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